# I pit my Mom, Grandma, Sister, Aunts, Uncles, and Friends **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 23, 2006, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-mom-grandma-sister-aunts-uncles-and-friends/377529 "2006-10-23T03:25:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-mom-grandma-sister-aunts-uncles-and-friends/377529/161 "2006-10-25T10:42:43Z")
[QUOTE=Bob55] Let me ask everyone on the board who agrees or disagrees with me this: Did you have a happy upbringing? Are your memories of your family good or bad? I ask this because when I decided to get married early by most standards (at 23 _gasp_) I had 2 groups of friends, those who said I was an idiot and those who were completely for me. The ones who were against me 90% of the time had parents who were divorced, and had horrible childhoods. The ones who were for me 90% of the time had great upbringings, with parents who really cared and were still married. [/QUOTE] I have a wonderful family, my parents are still married and still very much in love after 50 years, and I don’t have kids. And we’re OK with that. For both my spouse and I, our sisters reproduced. Maybe if they hadn’t we would have felt more urgency, but our families will go on, with or without us. We’re in our 40’s. It just so happened we weren’t going to have kids without medical intervention or adoption. We elected not to go to the effort. After all, there’s not a people shortage in the world. I’m sorry if you feel that’s somehow “selfish” or abnormal, but there it is. It’s not like we then ran around acquiring “things” or becoming greedy materialists. And one of the reasons I was able to put my life on hold a couple years ago, drop everything, and go live with my two ill parents who needed round-the-clock supervision for many weeks, is because I _don’t_ have kids - my sisters who did have children simply couldn’t pick up and leave their homes for that length of time. So enough of calling us kidless folks “selfish” - some are, some aren’t, just like people who have kids. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-mom-grandma-sister-aunts-uncles-and-friends/377529/162 "2006-10-25T10:51:13Z")
[QUOTE=Bob55] Your wit is admirable. And my words hurt you because it’s a deeper truth that you cannot stand to face. [/QUOTE] My wit is fair to middling. Don’t underestimate the value of a witless foil. Please, please Bob, tell me these deeper truths about myself that only you can know, despite never having met me, or even encountered me on these boards, that I remember. And do bear in mind that I actually \*have \* a much wanted and beloved child, so my monkey brain is bathed in the warm, golden glow of genetic destiny fulfilled. I know that you have wisdom to share with us. I’ve seen the light now, and I’m prepared to learn at your feet. Please be patient with the rest. I’m sure that eventually they’ll see that the smoke that blows endlessly out of your ass is actually a sign from God. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-mom-grandma-sister-aunts-uncles-and-friends/377529/163 "2006-10-25T11:12:15Z")
[QUOTE=Bob55] No, the reason is because I am one of the few people actually speaking up and I represent “the red states”. Unfortunately, the mentality of The Pit for whatever reason is of “the blue states”. And nothing gets a person in a blue state going like somebody else dare offering a difference of opinion. Oh we’re supposed to be “open to discussion”, but here we are, shutting down the discussion when it doesn’t suit your needs. [/quote] Ah, the Persecuted Nonconformist defense. Rarely anything but nonsense, and so it is here. Are you truly saying that a leftist saying what you’re saying would be lauded and praised? You probably are. Sad. > [@](#): > > People are just upset that the core of my argument - they are selfish - is irrefutable. If you had even bothered to make an argument, we could start refuting it. Instead of dodging, how about answering this simple question of mine: Being selfish is caring more about yourself than others; who are these others who are harmed by me not having children? ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-mom-grandma-sister-aunts-uncles-and-friends/377529/164 "2006-10-25T12:06:54Z")
[QUOTE=Bob55] Hrm, dimwit. Again, resorting to the namecalling to someone with a difference of opinion. I don’t get deep-seeded hatred you have for someone different than you. I thought you were supposed to be the “tolerant” one here. Evidently that only works if I agree with you. [/QUOTE] No, not at all. If it interests you that much, go back and look at my posting history. I’ve been in a shit-load of threads where I took a counter-position to the majority and never once used a personal insult. But, sorry, sometimes I gotsta call 'em as I sees 'em. You are being dimwitted, or, if you prefer, “obtuse.” And, unfortunately, it appears you are being so _deliberately._ I noticed that you didn’t bother to address any of my points, including the one in which I explained WHY I think you’re being dimwitted, or obtuse. You are using inflammatory language which insults those who don’t agree with your lifestyle choice, and then acting “all suprised” when you get it back, albeit on somewhat of a more personal level. > [@](#): > > And yes, I would be shocked to find a respect for any conservative ideas around here. You apparently haven’t been around long enough, or read enough threads. If I were you, I would reserve judgement until I’d done a little more research. But that’s just me. > [@](#): > > I’ve seen how anyone who expresses my beliefs is treated, and it isn’t very respectfully. Perhaps if you had phrased your beliefs in a respectful way, you wouldn’t be having this problem. As with anything in life, if you find everyone around youobjecting to something you’re doing, it may not be because they don’t “like you”-- they may actually have a valid point. Look at it this way. If a Christian started posting things like: “Anyone who doesn’t agree with my position on religion is a heathen and is going to go to hell,” you’d see the same sort of responses. Why? Not because they are upset at the Christian’s religion. No-- they’re upset at being called a heathen and threatened with eternal damnation. You did much the same. You came in here and started calling people selfish and saying their lifetyle choices were invalid. > [@](#): > > It’s bashing, seething hatred at the core. It’s anger. It’s rage. You muisunderstand. I don’t hate you at all. Actually, I don’t hate ANYONE. I do feel a little sorry for you, because you don’t seem to see what you’re doing to cause yourself to be insulted. And, yes, you’re right that some people here might hate the things your saying or be enraged by them. It’s a natural reaction to prejudice. > [@](#): > > It’s an “I’m more intellectual than you” approach. Wow, I am in awe of your great intellect, I’m sure it will take you far in life. So far that you will be on a message board calling others dimwits for their opinions to make yourself feel better about your choices. If being on a messageboard is so bad, why are YOU here? Don’t you have “more important” things to do than care what we think? As for my intellect taking me far in life-- it has. I’m extremely happy with my life, especially my career. Frankly, I don’t need to put you down to feel good about myself. There must be some sort of other motivation for it, and maybe it’s because I’m insulted by _your_ notions of superiority. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-mom-grandma-sister-aunts-uncles-and-friends/377529/165 "2006-10-25T13:38:32Z")
I’m **Bob55,** and I’m projecting like a motherfuck! ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-mom-grandma-sister-aunts-uncles-and-friends/377529/166 "2006-10-25T14:53:54Z")
[QUOTE=Bob55] I can’t rehash every argument I’ve presented with you every thread. You expect me to repeat every sentence, and unfortunately I don’t have all night to go back and forth with you. What it boils down to is you disagree with my opinion, and I yours. I answered your earlier quests the best I could, maybe if you could summarize what you want me to respond to in a list or a few sentences it’d be easier. [/quote] Uhm, I did just that with my question about your opinions on gay people, and you accused me of going off on a tangent. And in the post before this I pointed out how your opinions on gay people having kids is incompatible with your own opinions using your own argument. But alright; i’ll have another go. Your approach would mean the eventual extinction of all humans on Earth. How so? Well, you’d like everyone to have two kids - enough to replace themselves. If we assume that all people who physically can have kids, do so, regardless of whether they want to or not or are gay or have any other reason, then we should end up with roughly a static population - over the years, the number of people on Earth will remain relatively the same. Except of course that it won’t. We’d be losing people. - If you die before you reproduce, then you don’t get anyone to replace you. - Infertile people would remove at least one person from the static population, and if they find a partner it will mean the removal of two. - Some people never find a partner to have kids with anyway. And since we’re losing people without replacing them with their kids, the human population will eventually dwindle down to nothing. Extinction. Your thoughts? > [@](#): > > And yes again, Charter Member so don’t go throwing the “troll” thing around like you’re in a place to do that now just to try to win the argument. I don’t have time for your hit-and-run offense of “he’s cherry-picking” or “it’s illogical”, I need specifics, and short and sweet please I’ve got 50 other people to address. If you’ll look at my posts, at no time did I call you a troll. I used that word in conjunction with you twice, and in both cases it was to say that in my opinion you were not one. So please don’t go throwing the “he called me a troll!” thing around like you’re in a place to do that now just to try to win the argument. Hit-and-run implies 1) hitting and 2) running. I’ve certainly hit; but i’m still here, responding to your posts. And, in fact, I pointed out exactly where you were cherry-picking; you responded to my posts that mocked you and ignored the posts that had serious debate potential, until I called you on it. And when I said it was illogical, I pointed out some reasons why; see my response to you on your lack of coherency re: gay people, and this very post. I have backed up all of my assertations with arguments. How would you like me to be more specific? Oh, and I noticed this reponse to another poster; > [@](#): > > No, my kids aren’t going to solve the world’s problems. I just want them to be happy in whatever road they choose. Even if that’s to not have kids. Your argument has been that they cannot be truly happy unless people have kids. Your are again logically incoherent; your children cannot, under your opinion, be happy without kids. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Swan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_Swan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Swan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-mom-grandma-sister-aunts-uncles-and-friends/377529/167 "2006-10-25T15:50:03Z")
[QUOTE=Bob55] Oh no it’s a conservative and his evil opinions! And he dares to use freedom of speech! Everybody run! See, this is a perfect example of what I’ve been saying all along - ANYONE who expresses a different opinion from the majority of posters in The Pit - especially if that opinion dares represent the views of 50% of the nation (i.e. more conservative), then said person should burn in a fiery pit of the ensuing flamewar that attacks his intelligence, his intolerance, his narrow-mindedness, his judging of everyone, rather than just having a normal discussion on the matter at hand. [/QUOTE] psst… Hey Bob. Guess what? My wife is pregnant, and I consider myself to be pretty conservative. Time to come up with a new argument, Bob. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-mom-grandma-sister-aunts-uncles-and-friends/377529/168 "2006-10-25T16:01:30Z")
[QUOTE=Bob55] I know everyone else in this thread is hopping on board with you because in this day and age going against the status quo is cool and unique and nonconformist, but I’m going to unfortunately tell you my opinion and won’t beat around the bush. It’s your own choice, but it always baffles me how someone can be so selfish as to care about their life so much that they don’t want their genes to propagate. You’ve got millions of years behind those suckers telling them to multiply while they still can, I just hope that one day when you’re too old you don’t regret it. When youre 80 it won’t be your dogs, or your job, or your material goods that make life worth living, but your spouse, children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren. I have so many friends in their very late 20s and early 30s now who aren’t even close to being married because they’d rather go to bars, drink, or lease BMWs. They are playing Russian Roulette with their genes if they think they’re going to be popping out kids into their 40s, it only gets harder and harder as each year goes by. I’m really not telling you this to be mean, and it is only my opinion so please don’t flame me for my beliefs just because it’s the pit. I’m telling you this because I really would hate to see you one day regret this decision you’ve made to care about things that are meaningless just to avoid having kids. [/QUOTE] What does any of that have to do with the question before the SDMB group mind (What’s the most effective way of shutting down assholes who insist on asking this rude personal question?)? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-mom-grandma-sister-aunts-uncles-and-friends/377529/169 "2006-10-25T16:23:26Z")
[QUOTE=Bob55] We didn’t get to this place in the world by having people who only care about themselves. [/QUOTE] Yes, we did. There was an experiment conducted to test the opposite proposition, that mankind could progress through selflessness. It was in all the papers while it lasted (1917-1991). ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-mom-grandma-sister-aunts-uncles-and-friends/377529/170 "2006-10-25T16:43:07Z")
[QUOTE=Kythereia] [QUOTE=Bob55] And just because someone has an opinion different than yours does not make them nasty, judgmental, and narrow minded, please don’t personally attack me… \ And yes, by definition, if you do not want children you are selfish. [/QUOTE] …Uh-_huh_. [/QUOTE] And, given that you had to snip out about one line’s worth of text, he didn’t even respect the custom of inserting some padding between mutually exclusive statements in order to maintain a pretence of respect for the reader’s intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-mom-grandma-sister-aunts-uncles-and-friends/377529/171 "2006-10-25T17:00:00Z")
[QUOTE=Bob55] I’ve established that the reason people don’t want to have kids is for selfish motivations [/QUOTE] About as credibly as Immanuel Velikovsky “established” that the planets careened around the Solar System like pinballs a few thousand years back, Lyndon LaRouche “established” that the Queen of England runs the international drug trade, and Geraldo Rivera “established” that Al Capone stashed his treasure and the bodies of his rivals in a hidden vault. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![XaMcQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/f9ae1b/32.png) [@XaMcQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XaMcQ)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-mom-grandma-sister-aunts-uncles-and-friends/377529/172 "2006-10-25T17:00:06Z")
Listen up, **Bob** , I am childless by choice, and I am no more or less selfish than you. Probably no more materialistic, either. You chose to have kids and devote yourself to them and their needs because you find that fullfilling. Good on you. I chose not to, and to devote myself to other things, like my work, my husband, my friends, charity, and (I don’t consider this one trivial) not adding to problem of overpopulation. If at some point I decide that I NEED children to make my life complete, there are literally _millions_ of kids who don’t have parents, or a home, or care, or food, etc. So if I suddenly want kids, or get terrified of dying alone, I’ll look into adopting one. To me, with that many kids dying for lack of help, you breeders are the selfish ones. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-mom-grandma-sister-aunts-uncles-and-friends/377529/173 "2006-10-25T17:06:45Z")
[QUOTE=Bob55] Really? I could offer 1000 people who have had kids and done something for the world for each 1 person you mention otherwise. [/QUOTE] Your ISP seems to have lopped off the portion of your message where you support this claim by typing in a list of four thousand names. Come back and try again. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-mom-grandma-sister-aunts-uncles-and-friends/377529/174 "2006-10-25T17:13:54Z")
[QUOTE=DeadlyAccurate] [QUOTE=Count Blucher] I told her that I never regretted my kids and who the hell did she think she was to call me an unfit parent? She snippily replied how I shouldn’t be trying to brow-beat her into having kids. [What The Twisted-Logic Fuck!? Like I Ever cared what Tentacled Beasties© crawled in or out of her pants!!!] [/QUOTE] Was she drunk? Because that’s just plain bizarre. [/QUOTE] My guess is that somebody like the OP’s relatives or Bob had recently gotten on her last nerve about the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_McCello](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@Alistair\_McCello](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alistair_McCello)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-mom-grandma-sister-aunts-uncles-and-friends/377529/175 "2006-10-25T17:15:03Z")
> [@Bob55](#): > > Whether or not they did is objective. Did they make it a better place for native Americans? Hrm maybe I’ll go ask one, oh wait they’re only 0.2% of the population now. Thanks Newton and Mr. Paine. Again, selfishness - they made the world a better place for you, they made your life easier. But they didn’t for everybody. Amazing! We have it folks! This is offically the stupiest thing I have ever read! Its like the Holy Grail of intellectual dishonesty, illogical debate, straw men, and red herings all rolled into one! We may as well stop here, I don’t think that even **Bob** can top this one. So, **Bob** , how have you made the world better for native Americans? Did your having children prevent famine in Ethiopia? What!? It didn’t? You selfish bastard :mad:! You know how many people have died from starvation in Ethiopia? Why haven’t you saved them? How can you be so selfish? So, your having had children may make the world better for a handful of people (including yourself, your spouse, and your children). Thomas Paine helped make the world better for millions upon millions upon millions of people. How does this make you the selfless one? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-mom-grandma-sister-aunts-uncles-and-friends/377529/176 "2006-10-25T17:15:38Z")
[QUOTE=Bob55] Phew…where to begin, a lot has happened since our last encounter. I’ve evidently been called a “troll” even though I’ve been at the SDMB before many of you (I just normally stick to the General Questions and Cafe Society, but occasionally a Pit thread catches my eye), and I’ve also been told that essentially I have a warped view of the First Ammendment because I dare spoke my opinion. [/quote] No, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the first ammendment because you’re throwing it around on a privately owned messageboard in response to people telling you to shut up. Do you actually know what the first ammendment says? It’s not that long. Here it is in its entirety: > [@The First Ammendment](#): > > Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. See that first word there? “Congress.” Guess what, **Bob**? I ain’t congress. I can tell you to shut up all day long, and I haven’t infringed on your first ammendment rights in the least. And this is emblematic of everything you’ve posted in this thread. You’ve demonstrated a total lack of understanding of sociology, psychology, political science, and simple human decency. You’ve got a PhD in cellular biology. Apparently, you weren’t just making that up. But having an advanced degree in one field does not make your opinion in any other field worth a baggie of warm spit. You’re free to express your opinion on the boards only to the extent that the Chicago Reader lets you express your opinion on these boards. And we’re all equally free to express our opinion back at you. And the overwhelming opinion in this thread, from people who are both liberal and conservative, from people who have kids and who have no interest in kids, is that you’re an abrasive, loudmouthed idiot who has no idea what he’s talking about. > [@](#): > > I’ve said many times that it’s my opinion. Yes, we’ve got that, thank you. And _my_ opinion is that you’re an asshole. See how putting “My opinion” in front of an insult doesn’t actually make it less insulting? Funny how that works, isn’t it? Now, why don’t you take a minute to consider how that applies to what you’ve posted in this thread. > [@](#): > > I thought there was such thing as sampling? And as for the people here, I’ve already said they don’t represent the “norm” of society, I doubt that the average American spends their time on a message board. They’re too busy with that little thing called “life”. I was only trying to defend the society that so many here appear to loathe. Not having kids does not mean one loathes society. This is part of that whole “ignorant” thing we keep harping on. You’ve got no interest in what childless people actually think or feel or believe. You’ve got a preconception of how you think people should behave, that has no scientific basis, and when people don’t match up to it, you assume they must be miserable or misanthropic. Just because _you_ need to have kids to be happy, doesn’t mean that everyone else needs kids to be happy. People are not all exactly like you, **Bob**. Some people want different things out of life. This doesn’t make them selfish, or hateful, or miserable. You have absolutely no way to know this about people. You have no standing to make this determination. People can be happy with out kids. They can be fulfilled. They can be helpful, and productive, and caring. But you’ll never know this, because you can’t be bothered to actually get to know people who are different then you. You’re to busy shitting all over them for that. > [@](#): > > Yup, Charter Member. I know it hurts. I’m really only here for the important stuff that goes on in GQ, but sometimes I’ve got to step into this realm of unreality and defend Conservatism, religion, society, capitalism, and many other things that seem to be under constant assault here because it’s the non-conformist thing to do. None of those subjects have anything to do with this thread. Conservatives choose to not have kids, too. So do the religious. _Especially_ the religious: priests are specifically forbidden to have kids. Capitalists choose not to have kids. People who are intimatly involved in improving society choose not to have kids. All of these are gigantic red herrings that you’ve dragged into this thread to cover up the fact that you don’t have an argument. Not having kids is not a political issue, no matter how hard you try to make it so. > [@](#): > > And yes again, Charter Member so don’t go throwing the “troll” thing around like you’re in a place to do that now just to try to win the argument. I don’t have time for your hit-and-run offense of “he’s cherry-picking” or “it’s illogical”, I need specifics, and short and sweet please I’ve got 50 other people to address. He has been specific. And he never called you a troll. This is exactly why I’ve spent most of this thread making fun of you, instead of trying to engage you. Because you’re simply not up to it. You’ve consistently misread other people’s posts. You’ve ignored counter arguments. You’ve glossed over any example that undercuts your unsupported declarations of fact. Why should any of us take you seriously, when you’re so totally dedicated to avoiding serious debate? > [@](#): > > er\*\*, you are a very angry person that is evidently out to get people who dare express an opinion different than yours. I won’t respond to your choppy replies of “liar” or “idiot” or "dickcheese… On the contrary, if you take the time to look at my posting history, I’m more than happy to engage civilly with anyone who offers me the same courtesy. I can easily name a half dozen posters with whom I have a cordial relationship, despite having radically different political beliefs. I get along with them and treat them respectfully, because they treat me respectfully in turn. At no point in this thread have you shown _any_ respect to people who disagree with you. Your first post in this thread, you insulted everyone who disagrees with you. You’ve told people that _you_ know what makes them happy better than they know themselves. Do you honestly not see how completly disrespectful that is? Can you not see why that would make people angry? It’s not because you’re right. Clearly, my posts have pissed you off. Is that because what I’m saying is true, or is it because what I’m saying is _insulting_? Why do you think our reaction to your posts is any different? > [@](#): > > …or “have your kid stick his finger in the light socket” anymore. I never said that. > [@](#): > > Hrm, dimwit. Again, resorting to the namecalling to someone with a difference of opinion. I don’t get deep-seeded hatred you have for someone different than you. I thought you were supposed to be the “tolerant” one here. Evidently that only works if I agree with you. No, that only works if you show us the respect you demand we show you. You have not demonstrated any respect for the people posting to this thread. Why should we give you any in return? > [@](#): > > No, my kids aren’t going to solve the world’s problems. I just want them to be happy in whatever road they choose. Even if that’s to not have kids. But I thought it was impossible to be happy if you didn’t have kids. Hasn’t that been the underpinning of your entire argument in this thread? > [@](#): > > And yes, I would be shocked to find a respect for any conservative ideas around here. I’ve seen how anyone who expresses my beliefs is treated, and it isn’t very respectfully. It’s bashing, seething hatred at the core. It’s anger. It’s rage. It’s an “I’m more intellectual than you” approach. That’s because you only see things that confirm your preconceptions, and ignore anything that runs counter to them. A habit amply demonstrated by your behavior in this thread. > [@](#): > > Wow, I am in awe of your great intellect, I’m sure it will take you far in life. So far that you will be on a message board calling others dimwits for their opinions to make yourself feel better about your choices. It really doesn’t register with you that you’ve been spending just as much time, doing exactly the same thing, in exactly the same place, does it? > [@](#): > > Again, it’s called sampling. I’ll sure bet that you believe those poll numbers they put on the news that says the democrats are going to win the house and senate. Or a study that links certain activities with disease? Oh did they poll or study me? No. They took a small sample of the country, and multiplied it. Yes, but those samples were taken using establish scientific polling methods. It wasn’t just researchers saying, “Well, that’s what all my friends think, so it must be true.” If you want people to take your claims in this thread as seriously as they take a Zogby poll, you’re going to have to pony up some raw data and a description of your polling techniques. Otherwise, people are going to continue to treat you like you’re talking out your ass. > [@](#): > > I appreciate the research, you can see that my ideas and opinions are my own and my posts are consistant, and I express them here in select Pit threads from time to time. And yes, as much as you all would like to call me a “dimwit” and take your hatred out on me, I do, in fact, have a Ph.D. And have been published in Nature for my work on cancer metastasis. So no, casting a stigma of stupidity on me will not work. I know that’s been part of the plan when approached by an opinion that makes you gasp in horror, but as much as you can try it will not work here. As I said earlier, being skilled in one field does not make you skilled in any other. I’ll take as granted that you know your shit in cellular biology. That does not mean that you have a clue when it comes to any other field. Nothing you’ve posted in this thread has related to your field of expertise, and everything you’ve posted has been ignorant, prejudicial, and inflamatory. Are you familiar with the concept of the fallacy of appeal to authority? Knowing a lot about cancer metastasis does not give your insights into parenting or the psychology of childless people any particular weight. > [@](#): > > I would never badger someone about having children, in your case especially. That’s _all you’ve done_ in this thread. > [@](#): > > The only reason I am telling my opinions to those in this thread is because it was a pow wow against society’s “norm” of having children, and I felt as a father I should speak up for society and offer our opinion in the case of the OP. No, that is not what the thread is about. It was about someone venting because people were disrespecting her choice not to have kids. And your response to that was to come in here, and disrespect her choice not to have kids. You didn’t offer any insight or POV that we were unfamiliar with. All you did was demonstrate _exactly_ the narrowminded, condescending attitude that the OP was ranting about in the first place. > [@](#): > > While your reasons are legitamate and do not fall into the category of “selfishness” I was categorizing earlier, most people here said “I like my life the way it is and I don’t want to have to wake up early” as their reason for not wanting children. And there’s _nothing at all selfish about that._ Seriously, are you ever going to explain how having children is a selfless act? Do you have any reasoning behind that at all? > [@](#): > > Wow it’s Miller again, throwing out more personal insults. If you can’t offer anything constructive to the discussion why do you post? For attention? For a giggle as you hit the “submit” button? Next time write it, but then maybe just close the window after the preview please. Didn’t you just say, in this very same post, that you weren’t going to respond to my insults anymore? > [@](#): > > Oh no it’s a conservative and his evil opinions! And he dares to use freedom of speech! Everybody run! See, this is a perfect example of what I’ve been saying all along - ANYONE who expresses a different opinion from the majority of posters in The Pit - especially if that opinion dares represent the views of 50% of the nation (i.e. more conservative), then said person should burn in a fiery pit of the ensuing flamewar that attacks his intelligence, his intolerance, his narrow-mindedness, his judging of everyone, rather than just having a normal discussion on the matter at hand. If you want a normal discussion of the matter at hand, **don’t start off insulting everyone who disagrees with you!** How hard is this concept to grasp? You came in this thread and called everyone who disagrees with you selfish. That’s insulting. I doesn’t matter if it’s “just your opinion.” That doesn’t magically turn it into “not an insult.” You’re welcome to hold that opinion, but if you think so poorly of people who are different than you, why should those people think any better of you? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-mom-grandma-sister-aunts-uncles-and-friends/377529/177 "2006-10-25T17:22:21Z")
[QUOTE=Bob55] You know, if I was flat-out wrong people would have ignored me long ago. But the fact that you actually take the time to address my “you are selfish” argument shows that really there is some deep-seeded hatred in many of you for the truth I speak. [/QUOTE] Well, obviously. For instance, we can evaluate the claim “God hates American and helps Iraqi insurgents blow up our soldiers because of the continued presence of fags” by noting that people actually bother to say nasty things about Fred Phelps, thereby proving the underlying truth of the notion. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-mom-grandma-sister-aunts-uncles-and-friends/377529/178 "2006-10-25T17:27:57Z")
[QUOTE=Bob55] Everything I’ve said today I would say to someone in person, as my opinion. [/QUOTE] Your lack of common courtesy and decency is precisely what has made you the laughingstock of this thread in the first place. Flaunting the fact that you are equally rude and obnoxious in person is hardly a useful response. ---
**Author:** ![Wnabtokio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Wnabtokio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wnabtokio)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-mom-grandma-sister-aunts-uncles-and-friends/377529/179 "2006-10-25T18:30:52Z")
[QUOTE=Manda JO] I just hit 30 (and I’ve been here since I was 22. That’s so _weird_) and I am starting to have to really, seriously decide whether or not I want to have kids. What’s interesting is that the reason not to is that I love what I do and I have a powerful sense I am doing good in the world–I teach at a public school, and right now that sucks up all of my emotional energy. I’m the cool teacher, the one kids come and talk to, the one that puts together college applications for kids that have no family members in college, who listens when they have boy/girl issues, who goes to every football game and volleyball match and orchetra concert. I’m the one that gets notes that say “Thanks for teaching me English, but even more, thanks for teaching me about life.” And I love it. And I’d have to give it up to have kids. I could still teach, but not like this. I couldn’t love my students this much, I couldn’t answer the phone at midnight when they don’t understand their research paper or just got arrested (both have happened!) I couldn’t stay out past nine on school related events three nights out of five. I’m still torn on what to do, but I don’t see how my life now is a selfish one, and it bugs me that you could be one of my student’s parents, sitting there quietly dismissing all I do as selfish because of my childlessness. [/QUOTE] Beautiful. This is kind of weird, but can I say thank you? -Tokio Childless but still wants good things for the children around me. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_McCello](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@Alistair\_McCello](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alistair_McCello)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-mom-grandma-sister-aunts-uncles-and-friends/377529/180 "2006-10-25T18:57:48Z")
> [@Wnabtokio](#): > > > [@Manda JO](#): > > > > I just hit 30 (and I’ve been here since I was 22. That’s so weird) and I am starting to have to really, seriously decide whether or not I want to have kids. What’s interesting is that the reason not to is that I love what I do and I have a powerful sense I am doing good in the world–I teach at a public school, and right now that sucks up all of my emotional energy. I’m the cool teacher, the one kids come and talk to, the one that puts together college applications for kids that have no family members in college, who listens when they have boy/girl issues, who goes to every football game and volleyball match and orchetra concert. I’m the one that gets notes that say “Thanks for teaching me English, but even more, thanks for teaching me about life.” And I love it. And I’d have to give it up to have kids. I could still teach, but not like this. I couldn’t love my students this much, I couldn’t answer the phone at midnight when they don’t understand their research paper or just got arrested (both have happened!) I couldn’t stay out past nine on school related events three nights out of five. > > > > I’m still torn on what to do, but I don’t see how my life now is a selfish one, and it bugs me that you could be one of my student’s parents, sitting there quietly dismissing all I do as selfish because of my childlessness. > > Beautiful. This is kind of weird, but can I say thank you? Not to distract from the pileing on of **Bob55** , but I second that. Having had a teacher like you in the past I can say that what you do by being that kind of teacher will effect some of those kids for their whole lives. You are truely devoting yourself to the next generation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-mom-grandma-sister-aunts-uncles-and-friends/377529.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-mom-grandma-sister-aunts-uncles-and-friends/377529.md?page=10)