# I pit...myself **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 5, 2023, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-myself/977744 "2023-01-05T20:32:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-myself/977744/21 "2023-01-05T23:46:57Z")
So you are saying Jordan Peterson’s support for fundamental liberties (which? speech? right-to-work?) does not necessitate any endorsement of particulars (what particulars?)? I’m still not getting it. Help me out, **octopus**. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-myself/977744/22 "2023-01-05T23:47:45Z")
I mean, if you’re just using the phrase “fundamental liberties” to mean “whatever octopus thinks that Jordan Peterson should be able to do without encountering any negative consequences as a practitioner of an officially regulated profession”, then sure, maybe. But that is not AFAICT part of any constitutionally recognized definition of “fundamental liberties”. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-myself/977744/23 "2023-01-05T23:48:02Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I’m still not getting it. Help me out, **octopus**. It’s just octo getting ink all over a thread to make it about him again, that’s all. He’s like Mike Lindell teasing that he’s going to reveal all of the data next time to prove vote fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-myself/977744/24 "2023-01-05T23:52:04Z")
I was originally thinking **octopus** meant something like, **Enola\_Straight** ’s support for Jordan Peterson’s fundamental right to freedom of speech does not necessarily mean **Enola\_Straight** endorses Peterson’s view (if he even holds the view?) that transgender identity is or is comparable to a mental illness (a suggestion for which **Enola\_Straight** was warned). But this relies on a lot of assumptions on my part, and a misunderstanding of Canadian freedom of speech on **octopus** ’s part. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-myself/977744/25 "2023-01-05T23:52:53Z")
As far as I can tell, the reasoning (such as it is) of the Peterson defenders is basically along the lines of “Anybody saying anything that the wokies don’t like has a perfect right to do so, and any real-world negative consequences to them that result from their speech violating professional codes of conduct or company policy or similar is AUTOMATICALLY AN ILLEGITIMATE INFRINGEMENT OF THEIR INHERENT RIGHTS.” Which is pure wishful thinking, natch; that’s not how rights work. Nobody is violating Jordan Peterson’s “fundamental liberties” in any legally realistic sense. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-myself/977744/26 "2023-01-06T00:04:20Z")
**octopus** , Jordan’s stuff is so extreme I’m wondering what type of speech, if any, you _would_ think justifies a clinical psychology licensing board taking any sort of action. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-myself/977744/27 "2023-01-06T00:11:20Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > This is a non-apology apology. […] Try this: “I said some reprehensible shit in defense of a truly reprehensible person. I will do better in the future.” Another potential real apology, “I was careless in debate and accidentally compared transgender identity to a mental illness, which reasonably offended some of you. This was a mistake on my part, and not my intention at all. I lost track of the argument and I sincerely apologize for hurting some of you as a result. Please know that I do NOT believe transgender identity is a mental illness, and I support individuals by addressing them by their chosen pronouns even if Jordan Peterson doesn’t.” Of course one couldn’t use this, or any other real apology, if they don’t believe it and work to improve in the future. > [@EnolaStraight](#): > > and only made myself come across as a transphobe. > > My sincere apologies to all who were offended. If you aren’t a transphobe, you’re a blockhead for not saying so with a real apology. If you _are_ a transphobe, you’re a coward for not owning it. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-myself/977744/28 "2023-01-06T01:21:28Z")
> [@EnolaStraight](#): > > My sincere apologies to all who were offended. And when you’re ready to actually apologize, maybe we’ll talk. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-myself/977744/29 "2023-01-06T02:30:10Z")
Much like anti-constitutional speech codes at public universities, I don’t believe the state or agents of the state have any business regulating your exercise of speech, religion, or assembly. These are fundamental freedoms. I know it runs contrary to the left’s desire to ‘consequence’ the blasphemers but that’s too bad really. Now, if Jordan Peterson was acting as a psychologist and was treating someone with methods that violate whatever professional standards he has agreed to that’d be different. But tweets, books, and speeches are his business and one is free to be part of the audience or not. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-myself/977744/30 "2023-01-06T02:42:53Z")
Which agent of the state are you under the impression is involved here? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-myself/977744/31 "2023-01-06T02:52:32Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Much like anti-constitutional speech codes at public universities, I don’t believe the state or agents of the state have any business regulating your exercise of speech, religion, or assembly. You’re an absolutist, then? I teach first graders. If I started screaming at them about how their parents hate them and they should run away, you believe it’d be overreach for my government employer to sanction me? If they fired me, would that be “consequencing the blasphemers”? What if I used my freedom of speech to teach them that 1+1=11, because I thought it would be funny? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-myself/977744/32 "2023-01-06T03:03:27Z")
I checked with Miller. That is not a current rule, but something from pre-Miller days. Same with the old lawn chair rule. I wasn’t sure myself, it was used a lot when I joined the board. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-myself/977744/33 "2023-01-06T03:27:45Z")
He probably means town councils banning books from libraries, statehouses banning mentions of gay people in school or teaching about America’s history with slavery, and so on, but he just found the wrong thread to express those concerns. I’m not sure why he mentioned “liberals” in his post, though – I don’t think those are liberals who are using the actual power of the state to ban actual speech. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-myself/977744/34 "2023-01-06T03:27:53Z")
> [@Mr.E](#): > > I coulda sworn self-pitting was against the rules… I did it a long time ago for taking a huge shit in some nice person’s thread (Mean Old Lady, I think?) about Uber or some ride-share thing that I had _NO FUCKING IDEA_ what I was talking about. I dissevered it! I’ve tried to be better. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-myself/977744/35 "2023-01-06T03:32:23Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Much like anti-constitutional speech codes at public universities, I don’t believe the state or agents of the state have any business regulating your exercise of speech, religion, or assembly. These are fundamental freedoms. Just because speech, religion and assembly are fundamental freedoms doesn’t mean that the government doesn’t get to regulate them in any way whatsoever. That is a ridiculously and unworkably over-broad definition of “freedom” that even the most fanatical civil libertarians have never espoused. > [@octopus](#): > > Now, if Jordan Peterson was acting as a psychologist and was treating someone with methods that violate whatever professional standards he has agreed to that’d be different. But tweets, books, and speeches are his business and one is free to be part of the audience or not. So you’re saying that as long as Peterson in his private practice admits that in his public persona he’s just spouting inflammatory bullshit that his patients should ignore, then the governing body of his profession shouldn’t have any objection to that? Really? You don’t think that behavior violates reasonable standards of professional practice in any way? Maybe if Peterson’s public whackjobbery were confined strictly to non-psychology-related kookiness like searching for evidence of ancient extraterrestrial invasions or something, you’d have a point. But pretty much Peterson’s whole public schtick is about making claims that flout standards of psychological practice. I don’t see how you can reasonably expect his licensing organization to let him get away with that as an officially accredited representative of their profession. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-myself/977744/36 "2023-01-06T03:33:56Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I’m not sure why he mentioned “liberals” in his post, though Did you type that with a straight face? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-myself/977744/37 "2023-01-06T03:41:34Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > the old lawn chair rule Story time? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-myself/977744/38 "2023-01-06T03:50:38Z")
There was a running joke in pit threads with posts like “I’ve parked my lawn chair” or “This should go well, I’ve got my bucket of popcorn”. They were discouraged as post padding or something. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-myself/977744/39 "2023-01-06T03:50:53Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I don’t see how you can reasonably expect his licensing organization to let him get away with that as an officially accredited representative of their profession. For my part, I have no such faith in licensing boards. They are good old boys clubs - always have been, and always will. Just like any other professional organization, even when operating at a quasi-governmental level. There was a headline last year that something like 1 in 10 primary care doctors _won’t_ say vaccines are safe. You have to _really_ screw up to get disbarred, defrocked, what have you. Maybe Canada does professional licensing better. ~Max ETA: Thanks for the context, **What\_Exit**! ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-myself/977744/40 "2023-01-06T04:07:01Z")
I had a too-pleased-with-myself face on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-myself/977744.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-myself/977744.md?page=3)