# I pit NFL instant replay! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 16, 2006, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179 "2006-01-16T02:28:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![brownie55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f14d63/32.png) [@brownie55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownie55)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/21 "2006-01-16T14:52:05Z")
> [@Slacker](#): > > Yep - I was waiting for someone to say this. It was the right call, and the refs were just following the rules. Sadly, this is the stupidest rule ever to exist in any sport. If you catch the ball like that and try to get up - you have to make a “football move,” whatever the hell that is, before you officially have possession. That means Polamula could have stayed on the ground and there would have been no question about the INT. It also means that he could have rolled like a gerbil for 40 yards, popped up to his feet at the 1, lost the ball, and it would have been an incomplete pass. It really is just an insane rule. Sorry, the “tuck rule” is even stupider. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/22 "2006-01-16T14:58:30Z")
> [@Slacker](#): > > Sadly, this is the stupidest rule ever to exist in any sport. Stupider than the infamous “tuck rule” which has been on the books for decades yet has only been inforced once? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/23 "2006-01-16T14:59:38Z")
Okay, I was six minutes late, but I still call that a simupost. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/24 "2006-01-16T15:33:08Z")
I ain’t got a dog in this fight, and looking at it from the actual rules of football I say: Good call. Now from the rules of logic: Terrible call. But since when were football rules logical? Suck it up and quityerbitchin’. You won the game. Try being a life-long Lions fan. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/25 "2006-01-16T15:47:36Z")
Can someone explain the tuck rule for me? For some reason I can’t google a proper definition for the life of me. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/26 "2006-01-16T16:06:01Z")
The reason you can’t find a definition is because it’s indefinable. But [this](http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs01/s/2002/0119/1314426.html) is an explanation from officials: > [@](#): > > [snip] The ruling of referee Walt Coleman: while Brady was trying to tuck the ball, his arm was moving forward, thus the play was ruled an incomplete pass. This was based on Rule 3, Section 21, Article 2, Note 2 of the NFL rule book: “…any intentional forward movement of [the passer’s] arm starts a forward pass, even if the player loses possession of the ball as he is attempting to tuck it back toward his body.” > > Explained Coleman to a pool reporter, “When I got over to the replay monitor and looked it was obvious that his arm was coming forward, he was trying to tuck the ball and they just knocked it out of his hand. His hand was coming forward, which makes it an incomplete pass.” > > Asked to explain what it would have taken for it to be ruled a fumble, Coleman said, “He would have had to have brought it all the way in and got it all the way underneath his arm in order for it (to be a fumble).” ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/27 "2006-01-16T16:37:10Z")
Actually, I think the tuck rule is fairly logical, since it’s goal is to define forward pass vs. fumble with the utmost rigidity. If the arm is moving forward, it’s a forward pass, period. No BS about trying to determine if the passer was _really_ trying to throw the ball or not, no arguments about “he wasn’t trying to throw, he was trying to tuck”. Arm is moving forward? It’s a pass. I’m not so sure about the logic behind the “football move” concept. I figure, if you have full possession of the ball and are on the ground, then it should be complete. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Blonde\_Bomber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@The\_Blonde\_Bomber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Blonde_Bomber)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/28 "2006-01-16T16:52:39Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > Originally Posted by Peter Morelli > He [Polamalu] never had possession with his leg up off the ground, doing an act common to the game of football. He was losing it while his other leg was still on the ground. > > CJ How is this a rule? If Polamalu doesn’t get up and just lays there, he has an interception. If no one touches him, according to the rule that was quoted by Morelli and **BobLibDem** , the clock keeps running until the game clock runs down? What if he was injured on the play and couldn’t get up to run? If I read this right, the 10 guys on the Steeler defense could have made a big rugby circle around Polamalu, and fought to keep the Colts from touching him. If they succeeded for 6 minutes, the game is over? An act common to the game of football? WTF is that exactly? If he lays there with a broken ankle, is that an act common to the game of football? Because he’s an athlete who high steps and knocks the ball out of his own hand, after he intercepts the ball, rolls over with it, and starts to rise, that’s not an interception? **I would bet my house that if a Colt player recovered that fumble after Polamalu recovered it, it would have been first down Colts.** I’m sorry, but if this IS a rule, it seems open to interpretation. And if that’s the case, you have to err on the side of what was called on the field. What a bunch of crap. The tuck rule is crap, and this rule is crap. George Brett had pine tar on his bat above the trademark. His home run was overturned by the home plate umpire because that was the “rule”. At least MLB had the ability and the balls to overturn the umpire’s ruling. But what would have happened if it was a playoff game? ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/29 "2006-01-16T17:03:02Z")
I figure after this season there will be an attempt to clarify the pass catching rules again they are arbitrary and stupid and have been for the last couple years. If you are on the sideline or back line, then no football move is needed, just posession and two feet down. Unless they count going out of bounds, or being touched down as a valid “football move”. That would tidy things up I guess, but be really assinine. I can see the refs point. Polamalu’s “football move” was to role to his feet and get up to run. Since he didn’t complete the move it wasn’t a catch. It’s just remarkably stupid. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Big\_Cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@The\_Big\_Cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Big_Cheese)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/30 "2006-01-16T17:14:23Z")
I heard it on the radio(Bob Trumpy and ?) , and they both were completely surprised it was overturned. I still haven’t seen it. They should stick with it, it’s still better than not. But what irritates me is if they go to a commercial, then come back and then the ref says it will now be reviewed. Just go and do it right away, why wait. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/31 "2006-01-16T17:33:40Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Even if you like baseball, and I do, it’s definitely played at a snail’s pace. The average game is still close to three hours. It can remain relaxed in less time, I’m sure. [hijack] Well, a game used to pretty consistently take about two hours, and frequently less. I don’t have the stats to prove it, but I think there are more pitches in a game now. The batters take longer to get in the box, the pitchers take longer to get on the rubber, and of course changing pitchers in the middle of an inning seventeen times in a game doesn’t help. I’d also like it if they sped up just a bit; maybe they’d regain the rythm and pace the game requires to be truly good. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/32 "2006-01-16T17:44:43Z")
Maybe this is a point in favour of instant replay: it exposes rules that are stupid :). It seems that this call may have been technically correct, even though the play should be an interception just from common sense. I think in general instant replay may require changes to rules like this. On the field, they’ll call that an interception every time, but when the challenge comes up the ref has time to go through and come up with the obscure rule that makes this an incompletion. So the fact that rules like this & the tuck rule exist will only cause problems in replay situations. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/33 "2006-01-16T17:49:10Z")
> [@light strand](#): > > I ain’t got a dog in this fight, and looking at it from the actual rules of football I say: Good call. Now from the rules of logic: Terrible call. But since when were football rules logical? > > Suck it up and quityerbitchin’. You won the game. Try being a life-long Lions fan. Tell us about that Gato forward pass/non fumble/non safety thingy. And offensive holding between the half yard maker and the endzone but not in it. Now that was a horrid set of calls. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/34 "2006-01-16T19:17:18Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Tell us about that Gato forward pass/non fumble/non safety thingy. And offensive holding between the half yard maker and the endzone but not in it. Now that was a horrid set of calls. 😃 In a nutshell: no matter what happens, if you’re playing the Lions, they can not, under any circumstance get a safety. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/35 "2006-01-16T20:09:05Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > [hijack] > Well, a game used to pretty consistently take about two hours, and frequently less. I don’t have the stats to prove it, but I think there are more pitches in a game now. The batters take longer to get in the box, the pitchers take longer to get on the rubber, and of course changing pitchers in the middle of an inning seventeen times in a game doesn’t help. I’d also like it if they sped up just a bit; maybe they’d regain the rythm and pace the game requires to be truly good. > [/hijack] I agree completely, and I’d add that batters call for time much too often. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/36 "2006-01-16T20:30:29Z")
[NFL hangs Morelli out to dry](http://www.boston.com/sports/football/articles/2006/01/16/nfl_polamalu_call_was_officials_judgment/): > [@](#): > > “The issue was whether he had possession. The ball came loose when he was getting up. Pete Morelli determined it wasn’t a catch,” NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said. “That was his judgment.” > > Aiello added that the league’s officiating department had not yet officially reviewed the call to determine if Morelli had made the right decision. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/37 "2006-01-16T20:51:57Z")
As well they should hang him out to dry. That was the most tortured interpretation of a rule I have ever seen in any sport. The sheer effort it took to come up with a plausible excuse to overturn that one must have been exhausting, because he called the game OK after that. He must have run out of ideas to give Indy the game once he delivered his masterpiece. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/38 "2006-01-16T21:55:04Z")
I really don’t think that the call was an attempt to throw the game. Rather, I’ll bet the reasoning went something like this: “If I rule it an interception, the game is effectively over – the Steeler’s win. If I rule it an incomplete pass, either team can still win.” Typical fear of making a big, game-changing call that is way too common in “professional” sports officials. Hardly any better than deliberately throwing a game, and certainly doesn’t make the call any less atrocious. Still, you think that the NFL is bad? Try the CFL – where there’s no instant replay, unless the Argonauts show a play on the big screen. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/39 "2006-01-16T22:11:43Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [NFL hangs Morelli out to dry](http://www.boston.com/sports/football/articles/2006/01/16/nfl_polamalu_call_was_officials_judgment/): [This version](http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs05/news/story?id=2294309) of that story has the NFL spokesman saying that the call was wrong: > [@](#): > > "The initial call on the field was that Troy Polamalu intercepted the pass because he maintained possession of the ball after hitting the ground. The replay showed that Polamalu had rolled over and was rising to his feet when the ball came loose. He maintained possession long enough to establish a catch. Therefore, the replay review should have upheld the call on the field that it was a catch and fumble. > > “The rule regarding the performing of an act common to the game applies when there is contact with a defensive player and the ball comes loose, which did not happen here.” ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/40 "2006-01-16T23:12:04Z")
Excuse me. After I got to work, I realized I’d left off the first paragraph of Morelli’s explanation. Here’s the full version of it, or at least what the _Pittsburgh Post-Gazette_ reported: > [@Peter Morelli](#): > > I had the defender catching the ball. Before he got up, he hit [the ball] with his leg with his other leg still on the ground. Therefore, he did not complete the catch. And then he lost the ball. It came out and so we made the play an incomplete pass. > > He [Polamalu] never had possession with his leg up off the ground, doing an act common to the game of football. He was losing it while his other leg was still on the ground. I’m afraid the full explanation doesn’t look much better. Around here, it’s being called “The Immaculate Deception” or “The Immaculate Misconception”. CJ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179.md?page=3)