# I pit NFL instant replay! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 16, 2006, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179 "2006-01-16T02:28:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/41 "2006-01-17T01:49:45Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > [hijack] > Well, a game used to pretty consistently take about two hours, and frequently less. I don’t have the stats to prove it, but I think there are more pitches in a game now. The batters take longer to get in the box, the pitchers take longer to get on the rubber, and of course changing pitchers in the middle of an inning seventeen times in a game doesn’t help. I’d also like it if they sped up just a bit; maybe they’d regain the rythm and pace the game requires to be truly good. > [/hijack] The main difference is in fact the amount of time batters spend stepping in and out of the box. IT’s not the number of pitches, or else game length would have been just as slow in, say, 1931 as it is today; it would always be roughly proportional to on base percentage. Historically, umpires in baseball were trained to hustle play along. You can still see this phenomenon in lower levels of ball, such as high school ball or any form of recreational ball or softball; the umpires will hustle players on and off the field, tell batters to get to the box right away, stuff like that, since in those situations there’s usually a time factor and there’s no time for screwing around. Baseball up until circa WWII always had two unofficial clocks: the rotation of the Earth and the limited availability of travel options. Since darkness, pre-lights, stopped a game, and for travel reasons they couldn’t start every game at 12:30 PM, umpires would not allow dallying. That skill has been gradually lost, however, over the last 30 years or so, since the last of the no-lights trained umps retired. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/42 "2006-01-17T01:51:54Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > Stupider than the infamous “tuck rule” which has been on the books for decades yet has only been inforced once? The tuck rule was cited in a Redskins game this season, so it’s been enforced at least twice. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/43 "2006-01-17T02:50:22Z")
> [@PeterWiggen](#): > > Case in point re: subpoint (b) - The Outback Bowl in Sunny Tampa - Iowa was storming back against Florida after being down all day. They just needed to recover an onside kick to have a chance to take the game into OT. So they line up, kick a beautiful onside kick, and lo & behold - THEY RECOVERED IT! Miracle of miracles! But wait! A flag! Off-sides! Re-kick. But guess what? NOBODY WAS OFFSIDES! It was a fucking phantom call! And guess what?! It’s fucking unreviewable. So even though Johnny Armchair at home can see that NONE of the Iowa players were offsides, even though the announcers are bitching about what a bullshit call it was, even THOUGH IT WAS WRONG, instant replay can’t do a damn thing. Oh man…the pain, the pain. Only the strongest self restraint kept me from blowing a gasket in the pit over that call (which was only the LAST of several asshole calls against Iowa, especially the “running into the kicker call” and the “spearing with the helmet” call that cost Iowa some points in the first half. For those not familiar with the onsider click call, click [here](http://home.alltel.net/gcarter/avatars/onside_kick2.gif). Entire clip (and why it screwed us) [here](http://www.freepgs.com/grengadgy/offside/onside%20kick_0.mpeg) These kinds of calls are NEVER made unless it’s an extreme example…want proof, I took a photo off the TiVo of an earlier kickoff, when Florida was [clearly offsides](http://209.7.177.8/ddwyer/Pictures/Other/flo.jpg). Even the Conference USA (good luck trying to ref a major bowl game again) Rep later admitted that the last call should not have been made. Bitter…not me 😉 ---
**Author:** ![brianjedi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@brianjedi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianjedi)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/44 "2006-01-17T04:20:56Z")
That game was the most one-sided screwjobs I’ve ever seen, and I’ve watched SEC refs make nothing but calls for Florida and Tennessee. It’s just another reason why NFL referees should be full-time employees of the league and not part-time independent contractors. And as for all replays being booth reviews: the NCAA has been using that system, and I’m not crazy about it. For one thing, there’s a good chance that unless a coach burns a timeout, the play can’t be reviewed before the next snap. You’d have to be able to give a coach that timeout back for it to work, and then it’s basically just the challenge system they have now. Another problem is that NCAA refs are incredibly loath to create a turnover through replay. I can remember at least 2 instances this season where Kentucky should have gotten the ball from a reviewed play, but the refs wouldn’t make the call. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctor\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Who)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/45 "2006-01-17T06:52:41Z")
[ESPN.com link.](http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs05/news/story?id=2294309) > [@](#): > > The NFL said the referee made a mistake: Troy Polamalu caught the ball. > > The league acknowledged Monday that referee Pete Morelli erred when he overturned on replay Polamalu’s interception of a Peyton Manning pass Sunday in the playoff game between Pittsburgh and Indianapolis. > > Mike Pereira, the league’s vice president of officiating, said in a statement that Morelli should have let the call on the field stand. > > “He maintained possession long enough to establish a catch,” Pereira said. “Therefore, the replay review should have upheld the call on the field that it was a catch and fumble.” Just FYI. Pit away! ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/46 "2006-01-17T12:10:32Z")
> [@](#): > > **Siege** said: > I’m afraid the full explanation doesn’t look much better. Around here, it’s being called “The Immaculate Deception” or “The Immaculate Misconception”. Morelli was flat out wrong, considering that the ‘football move’ ruling should only come in when there is contact between the person catching the ball and one or more of the opponents. Polamalu had clear possession of the football while standing up as he caught it and maintained possession as he rolled over twice. Had that been Marvin Harrison’s hands on the ball, rolling over twice, getting up and knocking it out of his own arm with his knee, Morelli would’ve ruled it a fumble and then a recovery by the Colts when Harrison laid on it. It’s like Dan Marino, Shannon Sharpe and Boomer Esiason said after the game: the call was a joke, it was attempted highway robbery, and are we really sure that was Pete Morelli and not Archie Manning? ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/47 "2006-01-17T12:52:49Z")
> [@The Blonde Bomber](#): > > And if the last five minutes of that game didn’t convince you to never bet on football, nothing will. What’s that supposed to mean? First of all, if you had Pittsburgh with the points, nothing that happened in the last 5 minutes of the game had any effect on it whatsoever. Second, if you had Pittsburgh on the money line, you still won. Lastly, if you had Pittsburgh on the money line, even if they lost you were probably on the right side of the bet considering you were getting about 4-1 on your money and they played Indy at least even throughout the game. There are some games that make you question your sanity when betting on football (e.g. Houston getting 4.5 against STL with a 17 point lead with about 3 minutes to play and losing by 6 in overtime) but this wasn’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/48 "2006-01-17T15:55:02Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > The tuck rule was cited in a Redskins game this season, so it’s been enforced at least twice. I think I remember that, although I thought the announcers said it would be a good time to use the tuck rule, but the refs pussed out and didn’t call it. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/49 "2006-01-17T16:02:28Z")
I forgot to mention: KEEP INSTANT REPLAY. Yeah, that was pretty annoying to have a big delay in the game and still have them get it wrong, but there is nothing more infuriating than watching your team (or your bet) lose on a bullshit call that could have been overturned. However, I LOVE the way college handles it. Put a guy upstairs with a good look at it, looking at every play. If he needs a few extra seconds, buzz the main official, then send word in. (and I think it was Redskins-Denver, and they did call the tuck rule. It was fumbled into the endzone, and recovered by the O for a safety, IIRC, but they overturned it with the tuck rule. I can’t even remember who was on offense, though.) ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/50 "2006-01-17T16:40:47Z")
The scary thing about the Polamalu interception call wasn’t that instant replay overturned a proper call on the field – It was that Pete Morelli, presumably one of the NFL’s better referee’s, given that he was called on to officiate a playoff game, **didn’t know the freaking rules of the game**. Morelli _described_ the play perfectly correctly; he didn’t miss anything. As Morelli stated, Polamalu caught the ball, rolled over, then knocked the ball out with his left knee while his right knee was on the ground. But Morelli apparently did not know what the proper result of such a situation was under the rules of football. WTF? Aren’t referees required to know such things? I can understand a referee blowing a call because he didn’t see something, but you damn well better know how to properly call what you did see. Otherwise, you should apply for the position of ball boy, not ref. Sua ---
**Author:** ![Hi\_Neighbor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hi_neighbor/32/494_2.png) [@Hi\_Neighbor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Neighbor)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/51 "2006-01-17T17:00:59Z")
Morelli is lucky the Steelers managed to hang on to that game. If the Colts eventually went on to win that game, Morelli would have received his share of death threats. ---
**Author:** ![brianjedi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@brianjedi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianjedi)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/52 "2006-01-19T04:03:53Z")
> [@SuaSponte](#): > > The scary thing about the Polamalu interception call wasn’t that instant replay overturned a proper call on the field – > > It was that Pete Morelli, presumably one of the NFL’s better referee’s, given that he was called on to officiate a playoff game, **didn’t know the freaking rules of the game**. > Morelli _described_ the play perfectly correctly; he didn’t miss anything. As Morelli stated, Polamalu caught the ball, rolled over, then knocked the ball out with his left knee while his right knee was on the ground. > > But Morelli apparently did not know what the proper result of such a situation was under the rules of football. WTF? Aren’t referees required to know such things? I can understand a referee blowing a call because he didn’t see something, but you damn well better know how to properly call what you did see. Otherwise, you should apply for the position of ball boy, not ref. > > Sua And now you realize the ridiculousness of having insurance salesmen and real estate agents refereeing professional sporting events in their spare time. This isn’t the girls’ high school state basketball tournament, this is an NFL playoff game. Let’s get a full-time officiating staff already. If the NFL had a staff of full-time refs, this wouldn’t ever happen. You’d have crews that knew the rules of football because they were being paid to study the rules and watch film during the week. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/53 "2006-01-19T12:06:12Z")
Football isn’t freaking baseball where rule changes require an act of god. It already has the most complicated rule book of any major sport, and they change a half dozen rules every year. I am personally amazed that these guys get it right as often as they do in game conditions. Frankly, between the NFL, NBA, and MLB (don’t know much about the NHL) I’d say the part time NFL crews are the best. The NBA’s full time crews are laughably inconsistent. The MLB’s umpires can’t manage to call consistent strikes according to the rulebook without a machine to do it for them. The only way this “wouldn’t ever happen” is to replace humans with robots, because humans make mistakes. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/54 "2006-01-19T12:40:28Z")
> [@](#): > > If the NFL had a staff of full-time refs, this wouldn’t ever happen. You’d have crews that knew the rules of football because they were being paid to study the rules and watch film during the week. They already do those things, but there are far more hours in a week than are needed to officiate games, review tape, and take rules-quizzes. If other sports had as few games as football, they’d have part-time refs, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/55 "2006-01-19T13:38:46Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Frankly, between the NFL, NBA, and MLB (don’t know much about the NHL) I’d say the part time NFL crews are the best. The NBA’s full time crews are laughably inconsistent. The MLB’s umpires can’t manage to call consistent strikes according to the rulebook without a machine to do it for them. The only way this “wouldn’t ever happen” is to replace humans with robots, because humans make mistakes. NHL refs used to be the worst of the lot, because somehow they got the idea that enforcing the rules was a bad thing(you might think I’m kidding here, but I’m really not). This season is much better, though. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/56 "2006-01-19T14:19:35Z")
> [@Hi](#): > > Morelli is lucky the Steelers managed to hang on to that game. If the Colts eventually went on to win that game, Morelli would have received his share of death threats. [Home of controversial referee vandalized](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10911362/) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/57 "2006-01-19T15:46:55Z")
> [@SuaSponte](#): > > The scary thing about the Polamalu interception call wasn’t that instant replay overturned a proper call on the field – > > It was that Pete Morelli, presumably one of the NFL’s better referee’s, given that he was called on to officiate a playoff game, **didn’t know the freaking rules of the game**. Exactly. And even if he didn’t know the rules, a bit of elementary logic would have substituted. If Morelli was under the illusion that Polamalu needed to get off his knees in order to establish possession, all he needed to do was ask himself (or another ref), “suppose Polamalu lies on the ground for 10 seconds with the ball without being touched, then drops it while getting up, but still on one knee. Did he have possession before he fumbled?” Well, _yeah_. And at that point, it becomes clear that the critical question is, did Polamalu control the ball for long enough to establish possession before he lost it while getting up? And the answer to that one is pretty obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/58 "2006-01-19T16:03:47Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > [Home of controversial referee vandalized](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10911362/) It was probably a Colts fan that knew the fix was in and was upset because he didn’t do more to help them win. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/59 "2006-01-19T16:29:48Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > NHL refs used to be the worst of the lot, because somehow they got the idea that enforcing the rules was a bad thing. Yep, in a close game it was _expected_ that they’d “swallow the whistle” in the third period and overtime. The thinking used to be that it wouldn’t be right to call a penalty that would decide a game, because the \*players \* should decide games. Instead, they’d let cheap shots, interference, boarding, all the other shit that has nothing to do with _playing the game_, done by the designated goons rather than the actual players, decide games. There doesn’t seem to be much room left for goons, or even slow skaters, in the NHL anymore, and that’s all to the good, of course. If you have 3 or 4 games a week or more, on any day, then you have to have full-time refs, sure, like in the other major sports. If they’re only 1 day a week, what would full-time officials do the rest of the time? A good ref will get input from the others before making a call. Either Morelli didn’t, or they were all intimidated into not doing so, or they all had the same mistaken understanding of the rule. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179/60 "2006-01-19T19:07:21Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Football isn’t freaking baseball where rule changes require an act of god. It already has the most complicated rule book of any major sport, and they change a half dozen rules every year. I am personally amazed that these guys get it right as often as they do in game conditions. > > Frankly, between the NFL, NBA, and MLB (don’t know much about the NHL) I’d say the part time NFL crews are the best. The NBA’s full time crews are laughably inconsistent. The MLB’s umpires can’t manage to call consistent strikes according to the rulebook without a machine to do it for them. The only way this “wouldn’t ever happen” is to replace humans with robots, because humans make mistakes. I just don’t see it. I cannot imagine an umpire or ref in the other major sports not knowing the RULES. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-nfl-instant-replay/340179.md?page=4)