# I Pit NotOkay for convincing the entire board umkay had died! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2012, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-notokay-for-convincing-the-entire-board-umkay-had-died/626044 "2012-06-23T07:01:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Electric\_Warrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Electric\_Warrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electric_Warrior)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-notokay-for-convincing-the-entire-board-umkay-had-died/626044/601 "2012-06-25T17:14:06Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > You are being painted into this corner. Wait a minute. Do you really mean to say that if you think a poster posts with an unusual story, we should demand references or we will pit and claim troll? Jman is backing you into a corner that you didn’t sign on to. > > I don’t think you mean to say that. I don’t care how many posters post with crazy stories. I may think ‘trolling’ but I would only say it in crazy circumstances like this. Posters I respect were still being rolled by this troll AFTER she had upped the game to ridiculous levels. (Notokay thread). At THAT stage, it is okay to go ahead and call it. I realize that he’s trying to back me into a corner, but he keeps overexaggerating and misrepresenting what I’m saying, so it’s not going to work. I was pretty clear: post an incredible story, especially if you are openly inviting people to ask for information about your situation - no one is out of line to ask for proof. I think the Pit threads start when people get frustrated and need to let off steam; that’s what this board is for. So yeah, maybe “unusual” isn’t strong enough a word. Who draws the line? I have no idea, but I don’t care. I’m not asking for a new board rule or anything, so I don’t need an exact definition. I didn’t want to admit off the bat that I read Reddit, because dear God the dumb is deafening, but there is a community on Reddit called IAmA, where people start threads just like **umkay** ’s, e.g. I am quadriplegic, ask me anything. The community had a huge problem with posts that were fake, and as a solution, legitimate people started providing proof even if just in a PM to the mods. Over there, it is a community rule. I think asking for proof in an informational, “ask me anything” type thread, is not much different from asking for citations in GD or GQ threads. It’s a way of verifying that ignorance is in fact being fought. ---
**Author:** ![Electric\_Warrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Electric\_Warrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electric_Warrior)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-notokay-for-convincing-the-entire-board-umkay-had-died/626044/602 "2012-06-25T17:16:39Z")
Basically, what I’m trying to get **Jman** to understand is that _this isn’t about any “circumstantial evidence” about this particular poster_. This is a completely sensible reaction to anyone claiming what **umkay** claimed, or anything else on that magnitude. See my previous examples of “I’m 7ft tall, ask me anything” or “I just gave birth to sextuplets, ask me anything”. It is perfectly sensible to ask for proof. I also agree with those who said **umkay** probably wasn’t a troll per se, posting to rile us up, but either a devoté who wants to act out their fantasy, or a case of Munchausen’s by Internet. They are a lonely person who wants sympathy and attention. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-notokay-for-convincing-the-entire-board-umkay-had-died/626044/603 "2012-06-25T17:17:22Z")
> [@Jman](#): > > Maybe you should learn to read. Lots of times gut feelings are right. They were this time. They are also wrong a hell of a lot of times. I wasn’t calling someone an asshole because they had a different opinion. I was calling someone an asshole because they were treating someone as if there WAS locktight evidence, in a case where if they were wrong, would have been turning against someone solely for getting sick at the wrong time. > > It is absolutely mindblowing that so many people are completely okay with making pointed accusations publicly with nothing more than “I’ve got a feeling.” You called me an asshole because I expressed a differing opinion from yours. Asserting that you didn’t is reinforcing the view that you are desperately shifting the goalposts, and is reinforcing the view that you are some sort of gigantic asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Jman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jman/32/4416_2.png) [@Jman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jman)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-notokay-for-convincing-the-entire-board-umkay-had-died/626044/604 "2012-06-25T17:18:28Z")
I’m not trying to back you into a corner, I was honestly asking for what you meant by that. I for one do not want to see the easy nature of IMHO or MPSIMS become a place where credentials must be supplied to have a discussion. That is all I meant by that. ---
**Author:** ![Electric\_Warrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Electric\_Warrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electric_Warrior)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-notokay-for-convincing-the-entire-board-umkay-had-died/626044/605 "2012-06-25T17:21:20Z")
> [@Jman](#): > > I’m not trying to back you into a corner, I was honestly asking for what you meant by that. I for one do not want to see the easy nature of IMHO or MPSIMS become a place where credentials must be supplied to have a discussion. That is all I meant by that. Then stop suggesting that I “want to see the easy nature of IMHO or MPSIMS become a place where credentials must be supplied to have a discussion.” I _never said that_. Do you understand what I mean yet? ---
**Author:** ![Jman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jman/32/4416_2.png) [@Jman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jman)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-notokay-for-convincing-the-entire-board-umkay-had-died/626044/606 "2012-06-25T17:22:19Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > You called me an asshole because I expressed a differing opinion from yours. Asserting that you didn’t is reinforcing the view that you are desperately shifting the goalposts, and is reinforcing the view that you are some sort of gigantic asshole. I actually didn’t call you an asshole until this morning, when you lumped yourself in with the group and baited me with your leading question, and it had nothing to do with whether or not you thought umkay was a troll from the beginning or not. My original statement was based on pointed accusations with limited evidence. I did imply that I thought you were acting like a dick immediately after you said: "Would you like to buy a bridge? I have a nice one for sale, pretty cheap. Also, did you know that the word “gullible” is not in the dictionary? " So yes, when people talk to me like I’m a stupid child, yes, I get a bit angry. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-notokay-for-convincing-the-entire-board-umkay-had-died/626044/607 "2012-06-25T17:25:52Z")
> [@Jman](#): > > I actually didn’t call you an asshole until this morning, when you lumped yourself in with the group and baited me with your leading question, and it had nothing to do with whether or not you thought umkay was a troll from the beginning or not. My original statement was based on pointed accusations with limited evidence. > > I did imply that I thought you were acting like a dick immediately after you said: "Would you like to buy a bridge? I have a nice one for sale, pretty cheap. Also, did you know that the word “gullible” is not in the dictionary? " > > So yes, when people talk to me like I’m a stupid child, yes, I get a bit angry. Ok. But seriously, you do know that the word ‘gullible’ isn’t in the dictionary right? Because you grouped that in with the rest as if that one wasn’t true. I have [fought ignorance](http://209.104.5.198/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12547468&postcount=15)on this board about this before. ---
**Author:** ![Jman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jman/32/4416_2.png) [@Jman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jman)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-notokay-for-convincing-the-entire-board-umkay-had-died/626044/608 "2012-06-25T17:25:57Z")
> [@Electric\_Warrior](#): > > Then stop suggesting that I “want to see the easy nature of IMHO or MPSIMS become a place where credentials must be supplied to have a discussion.” I _never said that_. Do you understand what I mean yet? And I didn’t say you did! I said I didn’t want to see it end up being that way. I asked for clarification on your statement about the fact that you NEED proof and said “I would think everyone would be in their right to ask me for proof.” And, if that becomes the typical way of doing business, then well, basically those forums would be filled with “show proof” for many many threads, thus my statement about not wanting to see those forums become a place that requires credentials. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-notokay-for-convincing-the-entire-board-umkay-had-died/626044/609 "2012-06-25T17:26:39Z")
> [@Jman](#): > > So yes, when people talk to me like I’m a stupid child, yes, I get a bit angry. Consider that people will tend to talk to you like you’re a stupid child when you are behaving like a stupid child. Instead of getting angry with them (which is exactly what a stupid child does), try changing your behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-notokay-for-convincing-the-entire-board-umkay-had-died/626044/610 "2012-06-25T17:26:57Z")
[**umkay** has been banned an announcement has been posted in ATMB.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=656426) While message board mods aren’t really in a position to demand proof for a person’s life story, **choie** is right that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - and the **umkay** saga became one extraordinary story after another. It’s best to remain skeptical while also refraining from jumping to conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![Jman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jman/32/4416_2.png) [@Jman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jman)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-notokay-for-convincing-the-entire-board-umkay-had-died/626044/611 "2012-06-25T17:28:02Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Consider that people will tend to talk to you like you’re a stupid child when you are behaving like a stupid child. Instead of getting angry with them (which is exactly what a stupid child does), try changing your behavior. Pot, meet kettle. People will tend to call you an asshole when you’re acting like an asshole. Try changing your behavior, and not talking down to people because they disagree with you. Before you pulled out the insults, I had not said anything derogatory to you. ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-notokay-for-convincing-the-entire-board-umkay-had-died/626044/612 "2012-06-25T17:31:32Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > I’m the Pope. Ask me anything. Do you REALLY believe in God? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-notokay-for-convincing-the-entire-board-umkay-had-died/626044/613 "2012-06-25T17:33:47Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > I’m the Pope. Ask me anything. What’s with that fucking hat? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-notokay-for-convincing-the-entire-board-umkay-had-died/626044/614 "2012-06-25T17:34:21Z")
> [@Jman](#): > > That’s why so many people, before the whole NotOkay death thing, including other paralyzed people and spouses of paralyzed people were also taken in by her. Hindsight is always 20/20. So…you can trust me, Stephen Hawking, Super-Hero. PM me your bank account info. You can be sure I’ll use the info wisely and only to benefit you. I mean, there’s no proof that I’m not. Seriously dude. Swamp-land in Florida. You’ll make a billion-zillion dollars. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-notokay-for-convincing-the-entire-board-umkay-had-died/626044/615 "2012-06-25T17:35:26Z")
> [@Jman](#): > > Pot, meet kettle. People will tend to call you an asshole when you’re acting like an asshole. Try changing your behavior, and not talking down to people because they disagree with you. Before you pulled out the insults, I had not said anything derogatory to you. It’s insulting to tell someone he’s being gullible when (now demonstrably) he was being gullible? How about you take a nice big spoonful of your medicine, and STFU already? You’ll feel much better in the morning. ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-notokay-for-convincing-the-entire-board-umkay-had-died/626044/616 "2012-06-25T17:35:27Z")
> [@Jman](#): > > That’s not the point and you know it. If the skeptics had been WRONG, you certainly can hurt the feelings of a real person on the internet. My whole point is, until you KNOW something to be true, don’t make pointed accusations. But see, they weren’t wrong, were they? And how could they be? If the whole thing hadn’t been such an obvious sham (to some people) then they never would have called her a troll, which means there was no chance of them being wrong and hurting an honest person. Ever. That was never a real possibility. If she had been a normal, untrolly, just happens to be a quad and wants to join the board poster, then no one would have made any pointed accusations in the first place. It’s only _because_ she was a troll that she ever got called a troll, so you can absolutely stop fretting about the possibility that some poor innocent got their feelings hurt. Which means you can stop congratulating yourself for protecting her from it. See the nice logic circle I made for you there? Maybe sit and spin with it for a while, it’ll calm you down. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-notokay-for-convincing-the-entire-board-umkay-had-died/626044/617 "2012-06-25T17:37:22Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > , **choie** is right that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - and the **umkay** saga became one extraordinary story after another. Clearly, there’s a difference of opinion over what’s extraordinary and what’s not. It hardly matters now to anyone other than the hypothetically real **umkay** , if she exists. But IMHO, there will always be a bit of reasonable doubt, and that’s makes the banning kind of a shame. ---
**Author:** ![Azeotrope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/0ea827/32.png) [@Azeotrope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azeotrope)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-notokay-for-convincing-the-entire-board-umkay-had-died/626044/618 "2012-06-25T17:38:46Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > So…you can trust me, Stephen Hawking, Super-Hero. PM me your bank account info. You can be sure I’ll use the info wisely and only to benefit you. I mean, there’s no proof that I’m not. > > Seriously dude. Swamp-land in Florida. You’ll make a billion-zillion dollars. For realsies. I’m his sexy sidekick “Knockout” so I should know. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-notokay-for-convincing-the-entire-board-umkay-had-died/626044/619 "2012-06-25T17:39:06Z")
> [@Jman](#): > > Maybe you should learn to read. Lots of times gut feelings are right. They were this time. They are also wrong a hell of a lot of times. I wasn’t calling someone an asshole because they had a different opinion. I was calling someone an asshole because they were treating someone as if there WAS locktight evidence, in a case where if they were wrong, would have been turning against someone solely for getting sick at the wrong time. > > It is absolutely mindblowing that so many people are completely okay with making pointed accusations publicly with nothing more than “I’ve got a feeling.” If this is supposed to act as some lesson for healthy skeptics to be careful about who you accuse on the internet of being a troll, because you’ll drive them away and hurt their feeling if you’re wrong, then: 1. I can’t recall this ever happening here. Has anything like this happened before? 2. I think you’re drawing the astoundingly wrong lesson to be learned here. Seriously, wtf? ---
**Author:** ![Jman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jman/32/4416_2.png) [@Jman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jman)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-notokay-for-convincing-the-entire-board-umkay-had-died/626044/620 "2012-06-25T17:44:54Z")
No, it’s not supposed to act as some lesson. Look, it’s quite obvious I’ve lost my real point in between insults pointed at me and insults I have hurled back at others. The vast majority of this argument here is me defending my original post, which I still believe and frankly always will believe, which is about not making accusations against people without proof. It’s painfully obvious now that it is not a sentiment shared by all. Of course, I can be quite reactionary when people get mouthy with me, so I get mouthy back and do reactionary posting. I also was inflammatory at the outset, though IMO justifiably so, but perhaps it was a little over the top. I take responsibility for these (big) portions of this massive sidetrack. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-notokay-for-convincing-the-entire-board-umkay-had-died/626044.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-notokay-for-convincing-the-entire-board-umkay-had-died/626044.md?page=32)