# I pit Novelty Bobble **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 6, 2021, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-novelty-bobble/953914 "2021-11-06T22:48:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-novelty-bobble/953914/82 "2022-08-09T16:26:49Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I’m not the one choosing to exclude intent and the context of usage You haven’t explained why, given the historical context, intent is important here. What intent could the coach have plausibly had that would make it okay for him, at his workplace, to say the n-word (apparently multiple times)? You’re just twittering about irrelevancies and then scolding people for not taking your silliness seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-novelty-bobble/953914/83 "2022-08-09T16:29:22Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > Of course I am. I couldn’t otherwise see why you’d want to allow people to use racially offensive language and then rectally self-extract polite sounding justifications for why they “needed” to. Well, either we give some consideration to the context in which a word is used (me) Or we don’t (you) I think the former is a better approach. > [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > You want to make the world 100% safe for Racism again no, I don’t think racism, prejudice or bigotry of any kind is a good thing. But nor do I think attempting to create a blanket ban an any usage of a word goes any way to combatting it. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-novelty-bobble/953914/84 "2022-08-09T16:30:10Z")
We shouldn’t ignore the fact that there are a number of words the coach could have said with no bad intent that also would have resulted in his lose of his job. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-novelty-bobble/953914/85 "2022-08-09T16:31:38Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > But nor do I think attempting to create a blanket ban an any usage of a word goes any way to combatting it. How ridiculous: of course banning derogatory terms from polite-society usage goes some way towards combatting the bigotry they represent. It’s part of the message that polite society is sending about that bigotry being unacceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-novelty-bobble/953914/86 "2022-08-09T16:32:39Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Your irresponsible clucking and tutting about what you think might be going on behind the resignation of this coach, based on zero definitive evidentiary support, is really undermining your attempts to present yourself as concerned about justice. I think I actually made only one comment about that case, certainly far less than others did and it is absolutely true that none of us have the full story. I did however very quickly move from talking about that particular case to a more general discussion about a culture of suppression in general and very real examples that I myself have seen. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-novelty-bobble/953914/87 "2022-08-09T16:33:23Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > We shouldn’t ignore the fact that there are a number of words the coach could have said with no bad intent that also would have resulted in his lose of his job. such as? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-novelty-bobble/953914/88 "2022-08-09T16:35:33Z")
Apparently, plant based sausage. Or are we still in _ignore the last 50+ years of right-wing outrage over people saying things_ mode? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-novelty-bobble/953914/89 "2022-08-09T16:36:37Z")
Now I’m very confused. I think this is a reference lost on me. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-novelty-bobble/953914/90 "2022-08-09T16:42:44Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I think I actually made only one comment about that case, certainly far less than others did and it is absolutely true that none of us have the full story. > > I did however very quickly move from talking about that particular case to a more general discussion about a culture of suppression in general and very real examples that I myself have seen. Why you showed up at all is the question. The “banned” word you’re obsessed with tells us a lot about you. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-novelty-bobble/953914/91 "2022-08-09T16:45:46Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > How ridiculous: of course banning derogatory terms from polite-society usage goes some way towards combatting the bigotry they represent. It’s part of the message that polite society is sending about that bigotry being unacceptable. I think the message that bigotry is unacceptable can be spread just as easily without the outright banning of words. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-novelty-bobble/953914/92 "2022-08-09T16:57:19Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > Why you showed up at all is the question. The “banned” word you’re obsessed with tells us a lot about you Why did anyone at all show up in that thread? Is that not a valid question? Why is every other poster not labelled as “obsessed” with it as well? The actual alleged slur is actually unimportant, the wider point to be fought against is that there is such a thing as an unsayable word, that is offensive and proscribed regardless of the context in which it is used. I disagree with that. My original point that was always that there is a difference between _mentioning_ a word and _using_ a word. In any case context and intent matters very much indeed. (as indeed does the historical power of that word). It could necessarily be any word but seeing as this is top-tier problematic territory it is unsurprisingly the one that gets the most attention and if the case can be made for this, then it certainly stands for anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-novelty-bobble/953914/93 "2022-08-09T17:07:04Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I did however very quickly move from talking about that particular case to a more general discussion about a culture of suppression in general and very real examples that I myself have seen. If you want to have a general discussion of “cancel culture” or an alleged “culture of suppression”, based on “very real examples” that you yourself have seen (or what RitterSport in the other thread called “vague references to non-verifiable personal experiences”), you have all the freedom in the world to start a thread on that subject. If you decide to stick your generalized lamentations about “cancel culture” into a thread about a specific situation where all we know for sure is that a college football coach resigned over an incident that somehow involved his saying the n-word and his superiors accepted and endorsed his resignation, then yeah, it kind of makes you look like you’re trying to excuse or defend the use of racial slurs. That’s a classic “All Lives Matter” type of response—"I as a white person have decided that this specific question about impacts of anti-Black racism needs to be diverted right now into a discussion reasserting the importance of more general rights of the white majority all people, and if you object to my changing the subject like that THEN YOU’RE THE REAL RACISTS!" An old, old song that gets less charming with every repetition. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I think the message that bigotry is unacceptable can be spread just as easily without the outright banning of words. Nobody is advocating “outright banning” of any words in terms of legally prohibiting them. But culturally banning them from use in polite society does help spread the message that bigotry is unacceptable. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-novelty-bobble/953914/94 "2022-08-09T17:10:33Z")
C’mon, it’s not like the coach did something totally unforgivable . . . like kneeling. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-novelty-bobble/953914/95 "2022-08-09T17:14:18Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > If you want to have a general discussion of “cancel culture” or an alleged “culture of suppression”, based on “very real examples” that you yourself have seen (or what RitterSport in the other thread called “vague references to non-verifiable personal experiences”), you have all the freedom in the world to start a thread on that subject. The content of the thread up to the point I first posted was not merely concerned with the detail of that specific incident. You don’t get to police how a discussion progresses, it quite often ranges from the specific to the general without any problems. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-novelty-bobble/953914/96 "2022-08-09T17:17:24Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > You don’t get to police how a discussion progresses No, but you (generalized “you”) certainly do get to express an opinion about how other posters choose to “progress” a given discussion in a specific direction. If you want more vituperative scope for expressing that opinion, you can start a Pit thread about it, which is what happened here. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-novelty-bobble/953914/97 "2022-08-09T17:19:17Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Nobody is advocating “outright banning” of any words in terms of legally prohibiting them. But culturally banning them from use in polite society does help spread the message that bigotry is unacceptable. Others have made the point explicitly or implicitly that there are no circumstances under which the such words can be uttered. Or perhaps even worse, that there are only certain groups who can use certain words. I don’t know if they would choose to enforce that under the threat of law. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-novelty-bobble/953914/98 "2022-08-09T17:23:08Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > No, but you (generalized “you”) certainly do get to express an opinion about how other posters choose to “progress” a given discussion in a specific direction. Correct, and If I think my points are valid then I will make them. > [@Kimstu](#): > > If you want more vituperative scope for expressing that opinion I absolutely do not, I have nothing to say that could only said in the pit. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-novelty-bobble/953914/99 "2022-08-09T17:29:21Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I don’t know if they would choose to enforce that under the threat of law. I suppose it’s no use my suggesting, again, that we could reasonably defer all the performative worrying about potential disastrous societal implications of such a possibility until and unless we find out whether it’s actually true. This appears to be a chicken you are very determined to keep fucking. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-novelty-bobble/953914/100 "2022-08-09T17:43:27Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I suppose it’s no use my suggesting, again, that we could reasonably defer all the performative worrying about potential disastrous societal implications of such a possibility until and unless we find out whether it’s actually true. This appears to be a chicken you are very determined to keep fucking Hard to be quite sure what people actually think when straight answers are hard to come by. You might help a little on this. Do you think that there are any circumstances under which using that word could be considered permissible? If so, we are in agreement but I find there are some very wary of committing to taking a “no” position on this, even though the comments they make dancing around the subject would imply that that is indeed what they think. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-novelty-bobble/953914/101 "2022-08-09T17:51:50Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Do you think that there are any circumstances under which using that word could be considered permissible? Well, we certainly wouldn’t want to limit ourselves to the circumstances in the case being discussed would we. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-novelty-bobble/953914.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-novelty-bobble/953914.md?page=6)