# I pit NOW for blatant hypocrisy **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 17, 2008, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-now-for-blatant-hypocrisy/464033 "2008-09-17T20:55:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-now-for-blatant-hypocrisy/464033/81 "2008-09-20T14:33:42Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I see you’ve found yourself unable to accomplish this. And that’s fine, except failure with that second item affects the ability to have a meaningful debate. Ah, I see you couldn’t answer the several pointed questions I asked you. Instead, you’re just going to claim that I “don’t get it.” No, dear, it’s you who is debating dishonestly. Much easier to cut and run with some neener-neener snottiness. Good. Now I know the size of you in a debate. > [@](#): > > Please try to follow this: you offered a rationale for your position on abortion. I pointed out the position you put forth is also an argument for aborting an eight or none month-old fetus. After a fashion, it’s not a fetus, it’s viable if removed from the womb. This is why it’s so incredibly rare to perform a partial birth abortion, and the reason is usually that the fetus is damaged and/or the mother’s life is at risk. Most sane people accept that it’s not a common scenario, usually a high risk situation, and don’t try to smear the entire pro-life movement as a bunch of babykillers. You, however, have no such compunction. Justify for me Sarah Palin’s stance, that there should be no abortion, even in cases of rape and incest. Please, give me a rationale that such a policy should be enforced on all American women. > [@](#): > > I take it that’s because you see that your rationale does, in fact, support the aborting of a nine-month-old fetus. Nope, sorry, but thanks for trying, yet again. You have yet to offer once cite that abortions take place in this country on 8 or 9 month old fetuses. Please do that before you tell me I support such things. Then, if you can find such an example, explain to our studio audience why someone would need to get such a late-term abortion. Then and only then can we have a meaningful conversation. But I suspect the conversation is over. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-now-for-blatant-hypocrisy/464033/82 "2008-09-20T16:20:20Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Ah, I see you couldn’t answer the several pointed questions I asked you. Instead, you’re just going to claim that I “don’t get it.” No, dear, it’s you who is debating dishonestly. Much easier to cut and run with some neener-neener snottiness. Good. Now I know the size of you in a debate. When you answer my original questions I will consider answering your tangential and irrelevant ones. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > After a fashion, it’s not a fetus, it’s viable if removed from the womb. This is why it’s so incredibly rare to perform a partial birth abortion, and the reason is usually that the fetus is damaged and/or the mother’s life is at risk. Most sane people accept that it’s not a common scenario, usually a high risk situation, and don’t try to smear the entire pro-life movement as a bunch of babykillers. You, however, have no such compunction. First, I’ll assume you meant to type “…the entire pro-choice movement as a bunch of babykillers”. Assuming so, which would at least make your sentence make sense, I have to ask, are you an idiot? I have made NO CLAIM that very late-term abortions are common in any way, so hold on to your straw. Also, I have stated many times in the back and forth (you prevent it from qualifying as a debate) that I am pro-choice. You confuse my ability to understand and respect the other side with agreement with them. Some people are able to accomplish such a feat. Other, evidently, are not. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > Justify for me Sarah Palin’s stance, that there should be no abortion, even in cases of rape and incest. Please, give me a rationale that such a policy should be enforced on all American women. Why should I? I do not hold that position. But the same argument holds: if you believe that human life begins at conception and that we have no right to end an innocent life, then how the baby was conceived is immaterial. I don’t hold that position, but you asked for the rationale. KInd of amazing that you couldn’t fathom it on your own. But i am not surprised at this point. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > Nope, sorry, but thanks for trying, yet again. You have yet to offer once cite that abortions take place in this country on 8 or 9 month old fetuses. Please do that before you tell me I support such things. Then, if you can find such an example, explain to our studio audience why someone would need to get such a late-term abortion. Then and only then can we have a meaningful conversation. But I suspect the conversation is over. Why in the world should I provide such a cite? What would it prove? I’ll tell you: nothing. The fact is that they do occur, even if it’s rarely. And ask yourself why you added the qualifier “in this country”? Do you deny that such late term abortion occur, albeit rarely. Even if you don’t, can you understand that the concept is something to be discussed in the debate about abortion? That one must look at the extremes in order to explore how consistent one’s position is? Your refusal to defend your original statement points strongly to you not being able to perform these intellectual basics. I can only ask you to try harder. If you can’t you’re free to go off in your intellectually inconsistent world smiling and skipping, blissfully unaware. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-now-for-blatant-hypocrisy/464033/83 "2008-09-20T17:12:23Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > When you answer my original questions I will consider answering your tangential and irrelevant ones. Why don’t you repeat it? Because I’m really not able to follow your tortured logic back to its origins. Your main point was, at first, that women should admire Sarah Palin for all her accomplishments because she’s a woman, even if we disagree with her and find her to be a loathesome person in general. And if we don’t, we’re cunts (sez the guy not trying to alienate anyone, heh heh). That is a patently absurd argument, and perhaps you have now abandoned it for this tangential and irrelevant discussion on the D&E or D&X procedure. That topic is a red herring, since it’s not those procedures specifically that Palin opposes but ALL abortion, regardless of the woman’s health or the circumstances of conception. > [@](#): > > Assuming so, which would at least make your sentence make sense, I have to ask, are you an idiot? No, are you? :rolleyes: I mistyped “pro-life” instead of “pro-choice.” Clearly that must mean I’m a moron. Zing! You got me. > [@](#): > > I have made NO CLAIM that very late-term abortions are common in any way, so hold on to your straw. Also, I have stated many times in the back and forth (you prevent it from qualifying as a debate) that I am pro-choice. You confuse my ability to understand and respect the other side with agreement with them. Some people are able to accomplish such a feat. Other, evidently, are not. And you characterize me as in favor of killing 9 month old babies when I’ve made it clear that being pro-choice does not mean that you’re in favor of aborting a baby one day before it’s to be born. Indeed, that is a straw man argument, since it never actually happens, so pro-choice doesn not mean condoning that. The “partial birth abortion” discussion is very much beside the point, and it’s also something you obviously know very little about, so maybe you ought to just drop it and stay on topic. Where have I “failed to respect” the other side? I don’t really have a problem with anyone believing whatever they want to believe and making choices accordingly for themselves. I have a problem with them legislating that belief, making no exception for rape, incest, health concerns, etc. Even if I, like Palin, were entirely against D&E and D&X procedures, I would still disagree with her about the larger issue of the 98.7% of other abortions performed in America. What about this is hard for you to grasp? Thus, I understand Palin’s side. I do not respect it because it is an extreme one and you haven’t given me a compelling reason to do so. Your utter lack of respect for anyone who disagrees with you and your belittling and name calling make it impossible for me to respect you or your views. So, it’s really the pot calling the kettle black. Do you think Sarah Palin understands and respects my point of view? Do you? Apparently not, even though is a reasonable one shared by many people. Thus, you wish her to be the recipient of understanding and respect, but not to offer it in return. Then, you are shocked and castigating when you don’t get it. Seems like a rather one-sided transaction you are proposing. > [@](#): > > Why should I? I do not hold that position. But the same argument holds: if you believe that human life begins at conception and that we have no right to end an innocent life, then how the baby was conceived is immaterial. I don’t hold that position, but you asked for the rationale. KInd of amazing that you couldn’t fathom it on your own. But i am not surprised at this point. I fathom it, but I don’t agree with it being the law of the land. Can you fathom that? I respect holding it as a personal view but not legislating it. I have said this over and over, but you refuse to acknowledge it as a valid point of view. Her stance on abortion is very black and white; it lacks nuance, compassion, or open mindedness IMO, the very things you claim about me. > [@](#): > > I can only ask you to try harder. If you can’t you’re free to go off in your intellectually inconsistent world smiling and skipping, blissfully unaware. Where is the intellectual inconsistency? The decision is between a woman and her doctor. Whether or not I or you or Sarah Palin personally agree with it is irrelevant. Sarah Palin wants the government to insert itself between a woman and her doctor and make a choice for her that might not be sound for her, medically or personally. I think that’s wrong. I want the government not to interfere in people’s personal choices, even if I disagree with those choices. I trust the doctor’s judgment more than I trust Sarah Palin’s or the government’s. I don’t feel like there’s anything blissful or unaware about that. Or intolerant, or irrational, or disrespectful, or any other negative characterization you might want to make about it. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-now-for-blatant-hypocrisy/464033/84 "2008-09-20T17:50:23Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > I would still disagree with her about the larger issue of the 98.7% of other abortions performed in America. Uh, I meant 99.8% of the other abortions performed in America. Note to self: do not attempt to type numbers before you’ve had your first cup of coffee for the day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-now-for-blatant-hypocrisy/464033.md?page=4)