# I pit Obama and what he is doing with the census **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 11, 2009, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-obama-and-what-he-is-doing-with-the-census/485310 "2009-02-11T02:07:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-obama-and-what-he-is-doing-with-the-census/485310/121 "2009-02-13T01:46:01Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Okay, here’s a question: apart from that link in my first post, I really haven’t been paying attention much to claims of what Obama could _do_, exactly, with this (for obvious reasons). Does anyone else have a better idea than I? Are ALL their fears based on some kind of ignorance of government in that area? Because there IS an awful lot of screaming (though obviously, that alone means exactly nothing). Well, you could ask Judd Gregg. He cited this particular disagreement as a reason for the withdrawal of his name from nomination. I stated above some obvious concerns - add to them the risk of political embarrassment for Obama when this issue blows up like this. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-obama-and-what-he-is-doing-with-the-census/485310/122 "2009-02-13T01:50:39Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Less than three weeks in office and Obama is already screwing us over. > > [http://www.govexec.com/story\_page.cfm?articleid=41986&dcn=todaysnews](http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cfm?articleid=41986&dcn=todaysnews) > > The audacity of this blatant attempt to take over the census so that it can be manipulated in secrecy is worse than anything the libs ever claimed Bush did. > > If the census remains in Commerce, its procedures and guidelines are open for review by Congress. By pulling it into the White House, Obama has insured that there will be no accountability, no review and no accuracy. > > Here ya go, folks. You got what you voted for. Obama has _ensured_. I can’t believe no one has caught that yet. Someone must’ve, and I missed it. Seriously, it’s very difficult to take doom 'n gloom seriously when you can’t even spell properly/use the correct word. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-obama-and-what-he-is-doing-with-the-census/485310/123 "2009-02-13T01:52:51Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > I stated above some obvious concerns - add to them the risk of political embarrassment for Obama when this issue blows up like this. By ‘blowing up like this’, do you mean Republicans complaining? Because by that standard Obama hasn’t done anything right for the past three weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-obama-and-what-he-is-doing-with-the-census/485310/124 "2009-02-13T02:09:47Z")
It seems to me that the most charitable argument for **Clothahump** et al. is that any White House involvement in the census is untoward. In this respect we might properly analogize to Cheney’s involvement with the CIA. There are just some matters out of which the political heads ought to stay, even though they have a constitutional and a managerial duty to see that the executive agencies get things right. I’m sympathetic to that argument except when there is a demonstration that there is a failure that needs fixing. In my estimation, there are real problems with the 2010 Census. Beyond the technology problems documented in the previous links, there is a question over whether the current methods can be improved and changed. While we should be vigilant and skeptical of direct political involvement to remedy those problems, we cannot condemn that involvement merely on the ground that it should never be. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-obama-and-what-he-is-doing-with-the-census/485310/125 "2009-02-13T02:39:00Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > If the House Republicans are outraged then I am all for it. No kidding. If it’s enough to make Gregg sulk off a Cabinet post in a poutrage, it probably means President Obama is doing the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-obama-and-what-he-is-doing-with-the-census/485310/126 "2009-02-13T03:54:36Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Well, you could ask Judd Gregg. He cited this particular disagreement as a reason for the withdrawal of his name from nomination… Frankly, this makes me more suspicious rather than less. The census “issue” is a non-issue, and he presents us with no serious concerns to fret over. He asks us to believe that this is an issue so grave that he must pass on a prestigious position? Well, OK, I’m listening…just how, exactly, is this such a dire concern? Unless, of course, it isn’t. Which means to me that something has happened that we haven’t been told yet. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-obama-and-what-he-is-doing-with-the-census/485310/127 "2009-02-13T04:02:35Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Frankly, this makes me more suspicious rather than less. The census “issue” is a non-issue, and he presents us with no serious concerns to fret over. He asks us to believe that this is an issue so grave that he must pass on a prestigious position? Well, OK, I’m listening…just how, exactly, is this such a dire concern? > > Unless, of course, it isn’t. Which means to me that something has happened that we haven’t been told yet. [Or maybe we have.](http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/politics/bal-intel0212,0,7186125.story) > [@](#): > > The nation’s new intelligence chief warned today that the global economic crisis is the most serious security peril facing the United States, threatening to topple governments, trigger waves of refugees and undermine the ability of America’s allies to help in Afghanistan and elsewhere. > > “Though we do not know its eventual scale, it already looms as the most serious global economic and financial crisis in decades,” said Dennis C. Blair, the director of national intelligence, in his first appearance before Congress as the top intelligence official in the Obama administration. [Then there’s always this.](http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aitpF.1mEoTc&refer=us) > [@](#): > > The 38 cases linked to the financial crisis have the potential to be as complex as the one involving Enron Corp., which collapsed in 2001, and the number of them could increase into the hundreds, Pistole said. The cases involve companies that “everybody knows about,” Pistole said without naming them. I have a feeling that for the next few years, a cabinent position for something like Commerce is going to be a bit of a hot seat. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-obama-and-what-he-is-doing-with-the-census/485310/128 "2009-02-13T05:06:05Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > Seriously, it’s very difficult to take doom 'n gloom seriously when you can’t even spell properly/use the correct word. It’s not quite as straightforward as you’re making out. I’m quite the spelling/punctuation/grammar stickler myself, but if you’re going to be a stickler you have to learn where the gray areas are. And the usage distinction between “ensure” and “insure” is definitely a gray area. Speakers and writers of English have been using “insure” in the way that **Clothahump** did for hundreds of years. Now look what you made me do: you’ve got me defending **Clothahump**. Go pick on one of his many egregious factual errors and let go on the “insure” thing, willya? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-obama-and-what-he-is-doing-with-the-census/485310/129 "2009-02-13T14:53:54Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > FranklyThe census “issue” is a non-issue, and he presents us with no serious concerns to fret over. There’s scuttlebutt/speculation that Gregg was getting a ton of grief from the Pubs over “selling out” (see the GD thread about bipartisanship for more perspective), and maybe he just couldn’t cut the cord. That would make the census just a cover story - unless it really was an issue after all? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-obama-and-what-he-is-doing-with-the-census/485310/130 "2009-02-13T18:06:27Z")
I saw a Newsweek reporter on MSNBC last night who claimed to know the back story of the census and Gregg bailing out. I don’t really know enough to assess its accuracy. Supposedly there are a number of minority advocacy groups who have been claiming for some time that minorities (racial and the so-called “underclasses” like the homeless and undocumented workers, or illegal aliens if you prefer) are undercounted. Several groups were particularly upset by the Gregg appointment, as he supposedly has some kind of dog in the fight from the past. He was not trusted (for reasons that the reporter didn’t make clear, though it was suggested that it is more than just the fact he’s Republican) by several of these groups. So Obama, to placate them, promised to keep an extra close eye on the census process by changing the reporting requiements and increasing White House oversight. This in turn pissed off Gregg, who decided that he wouldn’t have the “'free hand” he thought he would, and that this was evidence he wasn’t trusted, so he quit. As a story, it makes a lot of sense, but is it the truth? I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-obama-and-what-he-is-doing-with-the-census/485310/131 "2009-02-13T20:43:01Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > If the census remains in Commerce, its procedures and guidelines are open for review by Congress. By pulling it into the White House, Obama has insured that there will be no accountability, no review and no accuracy. > > Here ya go, folks. You got what you voted for. BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Yes, because if there is one thing our Congress is known for its accountability, review and accuracy! 😃 And how exactly is this worse than lying to start an unnecessary war and get 4000+ Americans killed for nothing? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-obama-and-what-he-is-doing-with-the-census/485310/132 "2009-02-13T21:24:52Z")
Yeah, well, at least we have an _accurate count_ of dead soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-obama-and-what-he-is-doing-with-the-census/485310/133 "2009-02-13T21:54:42Z")
Obama does seem to have created a remarkably wide difference of opinion over there. [Example A](http://www.wimp.com/stronghate/) (Or alternatively you negative bitch, he may, just may have a bit of the hope you so sadly lack. Fucking witch!) [Example B](http://www.wimp.com/pisseddude/) (You fucking tell them, bro’!) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-obama-and-what-he-is-doing-with-the-census/485310/134 "2009-02-13T22:36:21Z")
Thank you for sharing. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-obama-and-what-he-is-doing-with-the-census/485310/135 "2009-02-14T19:49:49Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Thank you for sharing. It’s a pity it was meant to be in the “Obama’s approval rating has gone down.” thread! I had both threads open at the same time. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-obama-and-what-he-is-doing-with-the-census/485310/136 "2009-02-16T05:24:51Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I saw a Newsweek reporter on MSNBC last night who claimed to know the back story of the census and Gregg bailing out. I don’t really know enough to assess its accuracy. > > Supposedly there are a number of minority advocacy groups who have been claiming for some time that minorities (racial and the so-called “underclasses” like the homeless and undocumented workers, or illegal aliens if you prefer) are undercounted. Several groups were particularly upset by the Gregg appointment, as he supposedly has some kind of dog in the fight from the past. He was not trusted (for reasons that the reporter didn’t make clear, though it was suggested that it is more than just the fact he’s Republican) by several of these groups. > > So Obama, to placate them, promised to keep an extra close eye on the census process by changing the reporting requiements and increasing White House oversight. This in turn pissed off Gregg, who decided that he wouldn’t have the “'free hand” he thought he would, and that this was evidence he wasn’t trusted, so he quit. > > As a story, it makes a lot of sense, but is it the truth? I dunno. It is! At least very close. The evidence available to the public leads compellingly to that conclusion. To summarize: 1. Gregg _ **asks Obama** _ (not the other way around) for the appointment as Commerce Secretary (perhaps because he wanted to be able to fulfill his wish of a watered-down census in the first place?) 2. Obama grants Gregg his wish. 3. Individuals and groups who are aware of Gregg’s contempt for a census that includes everyone (such as those listed by **Boyo Jim** ), including illegal immigrants (who are more likely to vote Democratic), something that is anathema to most Republican leaders, come forth with their deep concerns. 4. When Obama learns from those groups of Gregg’s preference for an unfairly limited census – something Gregg has fought for in the past – the President agrees to move control of the census out from under Gregg’s jurisdiction. Obama does this out his zeal for bipartisanship, because he still wanted Gregg as his Commerce Secretary. Moving the census to another department would alllow Obama to get his nomination approved by the Senate Democrats who would otherwise vote against him based on Gregg’s hostility to the census. 5. When Gregg learns that one key area which he apparently wanted to control – the census – is now out of the Commerce Secretary’s jurisdiction (probably along with other reasons), _he decides he doesn’t want the job anymore_ and so he withdraws his nomination. 6. Conspiracy nutjobs on the SDMB insist that there was something suspicious and/or nefarious involved! Thanks, Clothachump and your conspiracy-minded fellow posters, for raising my spirits with laughter… ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-obama-and-what-he-is-doing-with-the-census/485310/137 "2009-02-16T05:37:09Z")
> [@ambushed](#): > > including illegal immigrants (who are more likely to vote Democratic) As a registered Democrat, I’d like to express my hope that illegal immigrants AREN’T voting Democratic, because they shouldn’t oughtta be voting _at all_. ---
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-obama-and-what-he-is-doing-with-the-census/485310/138 "2009-02-16T06:08:53Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > As a registered Democrat, I’d like to express my hope that illegal immigrants AREN’T voting Democratic, because they shouldn’t oughtta be voting _at all_. Oops! Point made. Consider my post corrected on that… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-obama-and-what-he-is-doing-with-the-census/485310/139 "2009-02-16T15:04:16Z")
Their US-born children will vote someday, though. Their political inclinations are being formed now, largely by how their parents are treated. It does matter. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-obama-and-what-he-is-doing-with-the-census/485310/140 "2009-02-16T15:54:51Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Their US-born children will vote someday, though. Their political inclinations are being formed now, largely by how their parents are treated. It does matter. Oh, absolutely. I wasn’t making the point that they don’t matter. I was just making the point that they shouldn’t be voting as long as they’re in illegal/undocumented status, even if they DO vote Democratic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-obama-and-what-he-is-doing-with-the-census/485310.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-obama-and-what-he-is-doing-with-the-census/485310.md?page=8)