# I pit OnStar. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 29, 2004, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-onstar/282098 "2004-12-29T15:27:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-onstar/282098/41 "2004-12-31T18:56:27Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > That commercial grates on my last nerve, every time I hear it, I just want to start smashing things. > > I can think of _lots_ of problems with OnStar that haven’t been mentioned yet: > [ul] > [li]If you’re in an area where there’s no cell service, OnStar’s worthless.[/li][li]The onboard monitoring system can be used to give them an excuse to void your warranty because you did something silly like go ten miles beyond the recommended intervals for oil changes.[/li][li]If you’re in an accident the police can pull the data to use against you (if not them, then your insurance company will).[/li][li]If they’re computer mistakenly posts your payment to somebody else’s account, OnStar can shut your car off until you manage to get hold of someone at your finance company who can figure out what happened to your payment.[/li][/ul]I’m sure there’s _lots_ more things they can do that I haven’t thought of. (Note, I’m not claiming that it can do all of these things right now, but they certainly can be incorporated into the system at some point in the future.) I don’t want to be monitored 24/7. I don’t want some faceless body to always know where I am, and what I’m doing. I don’t want to pay my taxes online with my bank account, and have the government have access to it (like they couldn’t get the info anyway, if they really wanted it). I don’t want the CPU chip in my computer reporting back to home base. I don’t want every place that I shop at putting my personal information into a database. I don’t want the computers in my car ratting me out. I don’t want to have to get a computer-chipped identity card because everyone in the world is so damned scared. People think I’m paranoid and all that, but I still have the sinking feeling that I’m not paranoid _enough_. Glad to see I’m not the only one. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-onstar/282098/42 "2004-12-31T19:02:50Z")
But, **featherlou** , if you’re not doing anythring _wrong_, then why are you _worried_? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-onstar/282098/43 "2004-12-31T19:34:36Z")
> [@Mynn](#): > > Veb, not disagreeing. Big button phones were a bitch ta find 20 years ago - but things are improving. _Very_ cool! Thanks for the link, **Mynn**. My BIL very rarely uses the cell phone, mostly because it’s so difficult for him. You’ve given me a great idea for a gift for him! (He’s also very difficult to buy for. He’s one of those bone-deep sweet, amiable people who likes anything whether he really _likes_ it or not, if you can follow that tangled reasoning.) This would give both he and my sister a lot more peace of mind. Dopers come through again! Veb ---
**Author:** ![1010011010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/ea666f/32.png) [@1010011010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1010011010)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-onstar/282098/44 "2005-01-01T01:42:54Z")
Not OnStar, but there are aftermarket ignition interlock kits that can be disabled with a cellphone call and a code. It’s popular with the “BAD CREDIT? NO CREDIT? NO PROBLEM! SPECIAL RATES FOR ACTIVE MILITARY!” car dealerships around here. Optional GPS. Basically it saves them some of the hassle that comes from selling the same car over and over to different people who can’t afford it and repossessing it on the first missed payment. Just disable the starter with a quick phone call from the repo tow truck as you’re on the way to the GPS coordinates. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-onstar/282098/45 "2005-01-01T08:08:22Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > I don’t want to be monitored 24/7. I don’t want some faceless body to always know where I am, and what I’m doing. I don’t want to pay my taxes online with my bank account, and have the government have access to it (like they couldn’t get the info anyway, if they really wanted it). I don’t want the CPU chip in my computer reporting back to home base. I don’t want every place that I shop at putting my personal information into a database. I don’t want the computers in my car ratting me out. I don’t want to have to get a computer-chipped identity card because everyone in the world is so damned scared. > > People think I’m paranoid and all that, but I still have the sinking feeling that I’m not paranoid _enough_. Glad to see I’m not the only one. YAY! I’m not the only paranoid person out there! First they make us think we need OnStar, next thing you know they will want to tattoo numbers on the underside of our forearms. ---
**Author:** ![TroubleAgain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e480ec/32.png) [@TroubleAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroubleAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-onstar/282098/46 "2005-01-01T21:47:24Z")
One of the main advantages of OnStar over a hand-held cell phone is that in case of an accident, I have no guarantee I’ll be able to _find_ my cell phone (rattling around loose in the car), whereas that OnStar button will presumably be exactly where the manufacturer put it. That said, I don’t have the service. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-onstar/282098/47 "2005-01-01T22:34:40Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > That commercial grates on my last nerve, every time I hear it, I just want to start smashing things. > > I can think of _lots_ of problems with OnStar that haven’t been mentioned yet: > [ul] > [li]If you’re in an area where there’s no cell service, OnStar’s worthless.[/li][li]The onboard monitoring system can be used to give them an excuse to void your warranty because you did something silly like go ten miles beyond the recommended intervals for oil changes.[/li][li]If you’re in an accident the police can pull the data to use against you (if not them, then your insurance company will).[/li][li]If they’re computer mistakenly posts your payment to somebody else’s account, OnStar can shut your car off until you manage to get hold of someone at your finance company who can figure out what happened to your payment.[/li][/ul]I’m sure there’s _lots_ more things they can do that I haven’t thought of. (Note, I’m not claiming that it can do all of these things right now, but they certainly can be incorporated into the system at some point in the future.) With the exception of your first point the answer to your bullets are uhmm no. If you are parked in an underground parking garage, and have no cell service, on-stars remote unlock won’t work. (or broken down in BFE for that matter) > [@](#): > > The onboard monitoring system can be used to give them an excuse to void your warranty because you did something silly like go ten miles beyond the recommended intervals for oil changes. That technology is called an odometer. No fancy GPS unit required. And speaking as a guy who has told people that something wasn’t going to be covered, 10 miles or a thousand isn’t an issue. The problem children are the ones that have not bothered to change their oil for oh say 25,000 miles > [@](#): > > If you’re in an accident the police can pull the data to use against you (if not them, then your insurance company will). due to privacy laws here in the US, this would require your permission. Actually crash data would most likely be stored in the SRS (airbag) control unit NOT the On-star unit. > [@](#): > > If they’re computer mistakenly posts your payment to somebody else’s account, OnStar can shut your car off until you manage to get hold of someone at your finance company who can figure out what happened to your payment. To the best of my knowledge this technology is not being used by any car company anywhere. On-star does not fianance cars, so why should they care if your payment is late? 😕 Cite please. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-onstar/282098/48 "2005-01-01T22:52:03Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > With the exception of your first point the answer to your bullets are uhmm no. If you are parked in an underground parking garage, and have no cell service, on-stars remote unlock won’t work. (or broken down in BFE for that matter) > That technology is called an odometer. No fancy GPS unit required. And speaking as a guy who has told people that something wasn’t going to be covered, 10 miles or a thousand isn’t an issue. The problem children are the ones that have not bothered to change their oil for oh say 25,000 miles > due to privacy laws here in the US, this would require your permission. Actually crash data would most likely be stored in the SRS (airbag) control unit NOT the On-star unit. > To the best of my knowledge this technology is not being used by any car company anywhere. On-star does not fianance cars, so why should they care if your payment is late? 😕 Cite please. Way to skim my post there, **Rick**. I said that if there’s **no** cell service, OnStar won’t work, either. As for the storage of the crash unit, that can be found in the trunk of cars like the Corvette. Where it’s used in the monitoring of your driving habits. Given that many cars can now “phone home” when they’re having mechanical problems, and that car makers have placed the black boxes in cars because they want “real world data on people’s driving habits,” do you _really_ think that car makers wouldn’t use the technology to void someone’s warranty? Remember, you’re talking about the industry which gave us the Ford Pinto, a car **known** to be unsafe before it ever left the factory. I never said that OnStar financed cars, but their parent company, GM, does. Nor did I say that OnStar did this, only that it was technologically possible for them to do so. Given that GM is trying to get their competitors to provide the OnStar service, I can see this as a powerful inducement to get the other car makers to sign up. ---
**Author:** ![35340](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/8baadc/32.png) [@35340](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/35340)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-onstar/282098/49 "2005-01-01T23:56:12Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > blah blah blah 😕 Cite please. > [@TuckerFan](#): > > (Note, I’m not claiming that it can do all of these things right now, but they certainly can be incorporated into the system at some point in the future.) back it up a sec … ---
**Author:** ![1010011010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/ea666f/32.png) [@1010011010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1010011010)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-onstar/282098/50 "2005-01-02T00:05:53Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > To the best of my knowledge this technology is not being used by any car company anywhere. On-star does not fianance cars, so why should they care if your payment is late? 😕 Cite please. Read my post **Rick**. OnStar isn’t doing it, but it is being done. I don’t think it’s necessarily even OnStar specifically that people dislike, its the entire idea of OnStar type systems. It will be cheaper to install the relatively inexpensive electronics in all cars than to have two relatively expensive assembly lines. Eventually all cars will be “OnStar ready”. Some of them just won’t have the little button. Or the little button won’t do anything, unless you pay. If we’re lucky, the system won’t do anything, either, unless you pay… but there are too many “advantages” for that to be likely. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-onstar/282098/51 "2005-01-02T00:12:09Z")
> [@1010011010](#): > > Read my post **Rick**. OnStar isn’t doing it, but it is being done. > > I don’t think it’s necessarily even OnStar specifically that people dislike, its the entire idea of OnStar type systems. It will be cheaper to install the relatively inexpensive electronics in all cars than to have two relatively expensive assembly lines. Eventually all cars will be “OnStar ready”. Some of them just won’t have the little button. Or the little button won’t do anything, unless you pay. > > If we’re lucky, the system won’t do anything, either, unless you pay… but there are too many “advantages” for that to be likely. Well, you’re partially right, we don’t like the idea of OnStar systems, and as long as they keep running those shitty ads with people hysterically screaming, we’re going hate them specifically. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-onstar/282098/52 "2005-01-02T00:59:08Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > … and the remote unlocking capability is not a bad thing if you’re a freakin’ idiot… My SIL just bought a new car and got the OnStar service for this very reason. She constantly locks herself out of her car, and wanted it so she could be let in without having to call anyone to bring her a key. Yeah, she’s a freakin’ idiot. She’s also a worry-wart and a sucker and was completely taken in by the ads. She was afraid of running off the road into brush and not being found or being in an accident and needing to Push The Big Blue Button. The fact that she could use her cell phone to do the same thing never occured to her. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-onstar/282098/53 "2005-01-02T11:56:12Z")
My sister has OnStar and was in an accident going on a year or so ago. Her and her son (about a year old) were hit by some truck bad enough to total her car. So my sister, with baby screaming in the backseat (luckily unharmed but she didn’t know) and airbag in her face hit the button for OnStar… …and was read the riot act by the woman on the other end because my sister was careless enough to hit the blue services button instead of the red emergancy one next to it. I’m sorry but if someone hits the wrong button in an emergancy, you patch the damn call through to the emergancy people immediately. You don’t lecture a woman in a wrecked car about how she hit the wrong button and the one she hit is really only for telling you how to get to the movie theatre or ordering flowers. Was enough to convince me never to own the system anyway. Funnily enough, I doubt they’ll put that call into their heroic commercials 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-onstar/282098/54 "2005-01-04T02:01:13Z")
Ooooh! For the _really_ paranoid folks out there, I recommend that you pick up the January issue of _Popular Mechanics_! It has a neat article about those folks who’re spying on you (it even discusses OnStar)! First off, there’s [AirIQ](http://www.airiq.com/airiqnewweb2/index.cfm), these guys put black boxes in rentals so that you can be dinged if you exceed the speedlimit or drive the car someplace the rental company doesn’t want you to. Next up is [ULocate](http://www.ulocate.com/). These folks offer a service so that you can track folks movements via their cellphone. One guy got busted for duct taping a cell phone to his ex’s car and using that to follow her around. (And for you Brits, there’s [Followus](http://www.followus.co.uk/), which provides the same service!) Then there’s [Vetronix](http://vetronix.com/) who build the black boxes that car makers install in their vehicles. Finally, according to the article, Progressive is testing a service whereby they monitor your driving habits and if they decide that you’re a “safe driver,” they’ll give you a break on your rates. Now, about 4 years ago, I worked for a company that sold vehicle monitoring equipment, and I found the stuff to be really wonky and unreliable. It had vehicles in places they couldn’t possibly have been, traveling at speeds they couldn’t have been, and in general, just giving shitty data all around. And while there’s no doubt been a whole host of improvements in the technology since then, I still doubt that it’s even better than 75% reliable. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-onstar/282098/55 "2005-01-04T02:07:35Z")
[Progressive’s site for their “TripSense” program.](https://tripsense.progressive.com/home.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-onstar/282098/56 "2005-01-04T03:33:47Z")
> [@Shirley Ujest](#): > > YAY! > I’m not the only paranoid person out there! > > First they make us think we need OnStar, next thing you know they will want to tattoo numbers on the underside of our forearms. Are you guys trying to attract them to this thread or something? At least try to keep it down, or for Og’s sake, just use the _hand signals_ we agreed to! Don’t you know they can hear everything you type??? :eek: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-onstar/282098.md?page=2)