# I pit over-the-top Anti-Trump hysteria **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 5, 2025, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735 "2025-08-05T18:11:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/601 "2025-09-03T18:40:16Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > I’ve started and stopped so many replies to this thread I’ve lost count. But this is part of the core dilemma, isn’t it? Against determined opposition, how do you fight fascism (or any high level system) without getting people who don’t care that much about it on board enough to stand up against the determined opposition? Do you do that by getting them equally passionate about your mission to fight fascism (or whatever high level system it is), or do you do that by finding what will motivate them to stand up and fight, and then convince them that that’s also what you’re fighting for (which may or may not be 100% accurate)? I don’t see much of a dilemma. You meet people where they are. There’s a extremely broad potential anti-fascist coalition _because fascism doesn’t work well_. Ultra-conservative Republicanism (tax cuts for the rich, tax hikes for the middle class, elevated interest rates, strong dollar, deindustrialisation, attacks on unions, squeezing the poor) works fine. I don’t like the outcomes, but the economy will continue to chug along, (There’s a built-in risk of Great Depression and ecological collapse though.) But policy built on the passing fancies of a mad king doesn’t work well. Which creates electoral opportunities, if we focus on them, as opposed to focusing on _unpopular_ parts of the left-of-center platform. > [@Sylvanz](#): > > My son is quite a bit further left than I am. He is very unhappy about what is going on in the country, but I think believes that our blind support of israel and our continued enabling of the genocide there makes the US’s problems less urgent? It doesn’t seem to matter which party is in control, we continue to support the slaughter of thousands of non- combatants. Too bad about the [genocide in Darfur](https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/30/opinion/sudan-genocide-famine.html?unlocked_article_code=1.jE8.92P0.kgnrkoFl1wNE&smid=url-share). Very unfortunate. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/602 "2025-09-03T18:50:24Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > All the advice to the leftists boils down to “but you have to appeal to people to your right.” > > Literally no one is telling anyone that they have to appeal to anyone to their left. > > They seem to assume that all potential Democratic voters are either already locked in or so-called “swing voters.” The idea that there are people on the left who are not voting, or voting third party, but could become Democratic voters—for some reason, no one will consider that. I agree with the idea of appealing to the center rather than appealing to the left (which I’m sure surprises nobody in this thread). I feel there’s a better chance of success there. And I feel that succeeding in defeating Trump and the Republicans is more important than scoring a moral victory. I hate to say this out loud but I think moderate left voters are already locked in as supporters of our cause. They’re not going to jump ship and start supporting Trump and the Republicans. Ruthless as it sounds, we can afford to take them for granted right now as we work on defeating the main enemy. As for the more extreme left wing who feel that there is no significant difference between Donald Trump and Joe Biden, I don’t feel we can afford to reach out to them. I feel that a platform that would appeal to these people would be so extreme that we would lose ten voters in the center for everyone we gain on the left. We’re in the midst of an unprecedented national emergency. This is the time when we need to build the strongest coalition we can, not go questing after some pure ideal. After we defeat Trump and the Republicans and democracy is safe, we can then start figuring out what direction we should be going in the future. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/603 "2025-09-03T18:52:57Z")
> [@Sylvanz](#): > > My son is quite a bit further left than I am. He is very unhappy about what is going on in the country, but I think believes that our blind support of israel and our continued enabling of the genocide there makes the US’s problems less urgent? It doesn’t seem to matter which party is in control, we continue to support the slaughter of thousands of non- combatants. Not what I remember, when Lyndon B. Johnson did help Israel in the 6 days war, he then pressured Israel to stop when Israel’s victory was clear. Nixon, when the Yom kippur war took place later, sent a lot of military material to keep Israel afloat, and then he also pressured Israel to end the war after Israel had militarily regained its advantage. (Notice that I do support Israel when looking at what took place. I do, however, draw the line after Israel has gained the advantage like real presidents used to do) It is really ugly with Trumpo, he is not willing to pressure Israel to end a situation where the IDF has gained the advantage but is now reaching for the “endless war” model, like the US did in Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/604 "2025-09-03T18:53:04Z")
> [@Sylvanz](#): > > As I’ve said before there is _no_ functional, “left” in this country. There is barely a center. Corporate interests, money in politics, enabling by a corrupt scotus majority, and a supine democratic leadership, has pulled the “center” so far right progressivism may as well be dead. 🙄 This is obviously and patently untrue. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/605 "2025-09-03T18:54:03Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > we can afford to take them for granted right now That seems to be the strategy, but I’m not sure it’s actually working all that well. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/606 "2025-09-03T18:54:41Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > All the advice to the leftists boils down to “but you have to appeal to people to your right.” > > Literally no one is telling anyone that they have to appeal to anyone to their left. what’s to the left of Leftists that you think we should be appealing to? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/607 "2025-09-03T19:05:33Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Literally no one is telling anyone that they have to appeal to anyone to their left. It’s the old Leftist Criticism Two-Step. If Leftists won’t vote for a centrist candidate, it’s the Leftists’ fault for not compromising. If Centrists won’t vote for a Leftist candidate, it’s the Leftists’ fault for running someone “too extreme.” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/608 "2025-09-03T19:07:26Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > what’s to the left of Leftists that you think we should be appealing to? He didn’t say anything about people “left of Leftists.” He said “nobody is telling _anybody_” to appeal to people to their left. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/609 "2025-09-03T19:10:11Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > He said “nobody is telling _anybody_” to appeal to people to their left. I mean, of course we are? That’s the feedback I would give “never Trumper” Republicans, for example. That would be my feedback for the people who align politically with The Bulwark, for example. And obviously it’s what I would tell full on Republicans; I just don’t expect them to _listen_. ‘Go further Left’ is what plenty of us were telling Manchin, or Sinema. I reject the idea that “nobody is telling _anybody_ to appeal left”, it’s pretty obviously untrue. And if you look at Kamala’s campaign, it was further to the left than Obama or Hillary’s. Clearly, someone “told” her (through their feedback rather than outright, presumably) to do that. ---
**Author:** ![DCTrekkie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dctrekkie/32/18862_2.png) [@DCTrekkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCTrekkie)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/610 "2025-09-03T19:15:13Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > As for the more extreme left wing who feel that there is no significant difference between Donald Trump and Joe Biden, I don’t feel we can afford to reach out to them. I feel that a platform that would appeal to these people would be so extreme that we would lose ten voters in the center for everyone we gain on the left. Is there an “extreme left wing” who think Biden and Trump are the same? If seen people say that either one would support the Gazan genocide, which seems reasonable, but in a general sense almost all leftists agree that Trump is worse, its just that Biden (or Harris) doesnt pass the bar of electable for them. Not everyone agrees with the idea of just voting for the lesser evil. The bigger issue is that too many moderates support these evils. I’d be interested to hear what sort of “extreme” policies you think would be needed to attract these leftists. It usually boils down to things like “Stop supporting genocide” or “Reform the police so they stop shooting black people”, or “Do something/anything about climate change”, none of which should be extreme in a sane country. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/611 "2025-09-03T19:16:38Z")
> [@DCTrekkie](#): > > Is there an “extreme left wing” who think Biden and Trump are the same? Yes - Hasan Piker (the second largest political streamer on Twitch and the largest left leaning one) has repeatedly said on horror after horror caused by Trump, “There is very little reason to believe that Kamala would have been any different”. > [@DCTrekkie](#): > > but in a general sense almost all leftists agree that Trump is worse, its just that Biden (or Harris) doesnt pass the bar of electable for them. Not everyone agrees with the idea of just voting for the lesser evil. Yeah, we all understand that. It’s just that this is not a reasonable stance; it shows that one holding it is severely mentally deficient. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/612 "2025-09-03T19:28:23Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > And I feel that succeeding in defeating Trump and the Republicans is more important than scoring a moral victory. Defeating Trump would ALSO be a moral victory. A huge one. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > As for the more extreme left wing who feel that there is no significant difference between Donald Trump and Joe Biden This is sarcasm I guess? ---
**Author:** ![Sylvanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/613 "2025-09-03T19:34:58Z")
I agree. It pains me to see people dragged off the street and disappeared with no recourse, abuse, neglect, and dog knows what else. If it isn’t genocide it’s close enough to scare and disgust me. ---
**Author:** ![Sylvanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/614 "2025-09-03T19:39:16Z")
Yes it is as are all genocides. I don’t know, so I’m asking are we funding the genocide in Darfur? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/615 "2025-09-03T19:43:26Z")
> [@DCTrekkie](#): > > Is there an “extreme left wing” who think Biden and Trump are the same? If seen people say that either one would support the Gazan genocide, which seems reasonable, but in a general sense almost all leftists agree that Trump is worse, its just that Biden (or Harris) doesnt pass the bar of electable for them. If you’re saying you won’t vote for Biden or Trump, then yes, you’re saying they’re the same as far as you’re concerned. Even if you then add subtle nuances that explain the differing reasons why you’re treating them the same way. And there’s another uncomfortable truth. You don’t get anything in a democracy by not voting. Politicians, who need to get elected, only pay attention to the people who vote. When you say “I don’t vote and here’s the reasons why…” the politicians stopped listening when you got to the “and”. When you said you don’t vote, you told them they can ignore everything else you say. People who won’t vote for the lesser evil always seem surprised when evil then gets bigger. ---
**Author:** ![Sylvanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/616 "2025-09-03T19:44:26Z")
I really didn’t mean that far back in history. I’m referring to the last … em 20 years or so? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/617 "2025-09-03T19:45:19Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > While I’m here, I’ll also endorse the conservative @Sage_Rat Appreciated. That said, there’s always the chance that I’ve had less impact in the world - and this thread - than I should because I’d rather leave all the crazies to argue among themselves than go out head cracking and drive them towards a better path. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/618 "2025-09-03T19:45:59Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Defeating Trump would ALSO be a moral victory. A huge one. I suggest you look up what a moral victory is. It’s not what you apparently think it is. ---
**Author:** ![Sylvanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/619 "2025-09-03T19:46:09Z")
🙄 Back atcha’ toots. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/620 "2025-09-03T19:46:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > People who won’t vote for the lesser evil always seem surprised when evil then gets bigger. If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735.md?page=32)