# I Pit overly-generous tippers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 22, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-generous-tippers/322956 "2005-09-22T22:09:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![yerba\_buena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/7ea924/32.png) [@yerba\_buena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yerba_buena)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-generous-tippers/322956/41 "2005-09-23T01:09:40Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Then why the big objection to simply tipping the 20%? Because, of course, the OP was not about paying 20%. It was about paying 15% yesterday, 20% today, and 25% tommorrow. It’s economically dishonest for the restaurant, and muddles the entire performance-reward system with perceived social pressure. Some poor schmuck doesn’t go out to eat for a year, meanwhile so many people start tipping 30% that 25% is “normal” and without even knowing it, he’s a cheap bastard because he “only” left a 25% tip. Keep in mind that, from the customer’s perspective, there is absolutely no fucking indicator of how much of a tip is to be expected. That’s why putting it on the menu makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Orual](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orual](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orual)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-generous-tippers/322956/42 "2005-09-23T01:12:17Z")
Has anybody here besides **yerba buena** _ever_ been “lectured” about their tipping habits by waitstaff? 'Cause I sure as hell haven’t. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-generous-tippers/322956/43 "2005-09-23T01:12:51Z")
Hey, **Yerba**. I know a way you can save $14.95 … Just trying to help. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![aurelian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f4b2a3/32.png) [@aurelian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurelian)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-generous-tippers/322956/44 "2005-09-23T01:13:03Z")
> [@yerba buena](#): > > The quoted text does not match your response, nor does the person being accused of being a doofus match the actual doofus. I think you read my quote and saw what you wanted to see. Of course it doesn’t. You conveniently left out the part wherein I responding to that quote (which I, in my ehtnocentric patriarchal rigidity, had placed directly under your quote, in the bigoted assumption that you would infer I was commenting on your quote). Here it is, for your convenience: “How does the waiter spit in your food? I never pick up the final bill until the table is cleared off and the people are ready to go.” ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-generous-tippers/322956/45 "2005-09-23T01:14:02Z")
> [@Orual](#): > > Has anybody here besides **yerba buena** _ever_ been “lectured” about their tipping habits by waitstaff? 'Cause I sure as hell haven’t. Never so much as a stare … ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-generous-tippers/322956/46 "2005-09-23T01:17:54Z")
> [@yerba buena](#): > > And waiters can use ESP to tell the difference, I suppose? And we’re back to your insecurities again. Sweet. In a perfect world this would be the stiffed waiter’s thought process: “Hmm. Last night I made $100 in tips on 10 tables. Tonight I made $50 in tips on 10 tables. Maybe its’ because I was having a bad day and didn’t smile once all night. Maybe its’ because some of my customers weren’t as rich as the customers last night. Oh well, bitching about it won’t make a difference; I’ll make an effort to smile tomorrow and hopefully do better.” Of course some people are unable to see fault in themselves. I worked with one as a wee busboy years back. She lasted about two weeks. - **Wolfian** is watching you :eek: ---
**Author:** ![aurelian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f4b2a3/32.png) [@aurelian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurelian)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-generous-tippers/322956/47 "2005-09-23T01:18:23Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Assuming he pays by credit card, my understanding is that you pay taxes on exactly the tip. Assuming he pays cash, my understanding is that the vast, overwhelming majority of wait staff pay taxes on 8.5%. They’re legally required to pay taxes on the full amount, but most only pay on the 8.5%. > > THus my specific question. > > Daniel IANAEconomist, but my understanding is: I pay taxes on a credit card tip. If they leave me, say, $4.00 on a $46.00 bill (credit card or cash), I pay taxes on the $46.00. That is, if I get stiffed on a credit card tip, I still get taxed on the amount of the bill, not just the tip. This could vary by state to state, though. I don’t know if this is a local or state-level sort of decision. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-generous-tippers/322956/48 "2005-09-23T01:18:36Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > I don’t consider 20% particularly generous. I do, but then I don’t think of it as a tip, but as a surcharge to make up for a subminimum wage. Pretty much, they always get 20% from me, mainly because I think anything more than that would be excessive. But then I virtually never dock my tips either if the service is less than stellar. Maybe I would, if the waiter was abusive and, perhaps, hurled a plate of linguini vongole at me, but otherwise what reason would I have to give a smaller tip? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-generous-tippers/322956/49 "2005-09-23T01:19:44Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > I do, but then I don’t think of it as a tip, but as a surcharge to make up for a subminimum wage. Pretty much, they always get 20% from me, mainly because I think anything more than that would be excessive. But then I virtually never dock my tips either if the service is less than stellar. Maybe I would, if the waiter was abusive and, perhaps, hurled a plate of linguini vongole at me, but otherwise what reason would I have to give a smaller tip? Principally, what I mean by that last statement is, if the service seems slow, IME it’s usually because the restaurant’s crowded. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-generous-tippers/322956/50 "2005-09-23T01:25:00Z")
> [@aurelian](#): > > IANAEconomist, but my understanding is: > I pay taxes on a credit card tip. If they leave me, say, $4.00 on a $46.00 bill (credit card or cash), I pay taxes on the $46.00. > That is, if I get stiffed on a credit card tip, I still get taxed on the amount of the bill, not just the tip. > This could vary by state to state, though. I don’t know if this is a local or state-level sort of decision. Work this out for me: 1. I’m a cheap bastid. I order $42.00 worth of food, and I tip you $4.00. Do you pay taxes on 8.5% of $46? 2. I’m a conventional bastid. I order $38.33 worth of food, and I tip you $7.67. Do you pay taxes on 8.5% of $46? 3. I’m a rich bastid. I order $23.00 worth of food, and I tip you $23.00. Do you pay taxes on 8.5% of $46? If so, in all three cases you’re underpaying your taxes (although in the first case you’re only underpaying by 0.2%), which suggests to me that you’re not in a position to complain about cheap bastids costing you tax-dollars. YOu can complain about them for other reasons, natch. If I’m misunderstanding, my apologies. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![aurelian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f4b2a3/32.png) [@aurelian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurelian)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-generous-tippers/322956/51 "2005-09-23T01:25:08Z")
> [@Orual](#): > > Has anybody here besides **yerba buena** _ever_ been “lectured” about their tipping habits by waitstaff? 'Cause I sure as hell haven’t. Hear hear. Challenging a guest on their tip would have meant instant termination at any of the places I’ve worked - a hotel restaurant, a locally-owned cafe/bar, soulless corporate chains. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-generous-tippers/322956/52 "2005-09-23T01:25:56Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Then why the big objection to simply tipping the 20%? If you are willing to pay the 20%, simply pay it and shut up. That’s right. Because it’s completely unreasonable to oppose a cultural practice like tipping, and at the same time adhere to that practice because it’s the right thing to do. :rolleyes: > [@Weirddave](#): > > Adding it to the price of the food and then paying the servers $3 more an hour will cause the quality of the service to go way down. You know, i’ve heard this assertion made time and again, and it’s usually couched in the same sort of speculative way. I’ve never heard anyone actually say “In my experience, service is worse in places with no tipping.” I’ve said it before on these boards, and i’ll say it again. I’ve been on both sides of the equation—as a customer, and as a waiter and bartender—in countries that tip and in countries that don’t. I spent ten years working in the service industry in North America, the UK, and Australia. I can honestly say that the service i’ve received at restaurants in the US and Canada has been, on average, no better and no worse than the service i have received in restaurants in Australia and England. There are good waiters and crappy waiters everywhere. And when i was working as a waiter, i tried to do my job professionally, whether the system of remuneration involved a deent wage, or a low wage plus tips. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-generous-tippers/322956/53 "2005-09-23T01:57:01Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > That’s right. Because it’s completely unreasonable to oppose a cultural practice like tipping, and at the same time adhere to that practice because it’s the right thing to do. :rolleyes: Yea it is _somewhat_ unreasonable. If I went to a place where it was a cultural practice to abuse women, I wouldn’t follow that cultural practice. It’s called having the courage of your convictions or putting your money (in this case, lack of money) where your mouth is. > [@mhendo](#): > > You know, i’ve heard this assertion made time and again, and it’s usually couched in the same sort of speculative way. I’ve never heard anyone actually say “In my experience, service is worse in places with no tipping.” > > I’ve said it before on these boards, and i’ll say it again. I’ve been on both sides of the equation—as a customer, and as a waiter and bartender—in countries that tip and in countries that don’t. I spent ten years working in the service industry in North America, the UK, and Australia. > > I can honestly say that the service i’ve received at restaurants in the US and Canada has been, on average, no better and no worse than the service i have received in restaurants in Australia and England. There are good waiters and crappy waiters everywhere. And when i was working as a waiter, i tried to do my job professionally, whether the system of remuneration involved a deent wage, or a low wage plus tips. I am a very good waiter. I wouldn’t dream of doing the job for a set wage and no tips unless that wage was $20 an hour or more. Every good waiter I’ve worked with (that I can recall) feels the same. The lazy ones are the ones who want to work for an hourly wage. It’s just not worth busting you hump the way you have to to be a good waiter without the incentive of (usually) getting paid more money because you worked hard. Compare the service you get at a restaurant where low tips are the norm (say a Waffle House or a Dennys) with the service you get at a place like TGI Fridays or even a high end place like Ruth’s Chris Steak House. The former usually has high school students who simply take your order and then bring you the food, while the later has waiters who enhance your dining experience. I once tended bar for a wedding with another bartender. We both had tip jars on our end of the bar. She stood there and poured drinks. I busted my ass, made a point to be entertaining, remembered who was drinking what and more often than not had it waiting for them when I saw them approaching the bar. Once or twice I ran trays of drinks out to tables and shared a laugh or two while busing their empties. At the end of the night my jar was over twice as full as hers, the Bride’s father personally thanked me for doing a great job and slipped me a $50. The other bartender then tried to pull “Oh, we always pool tips on these jobs” out of her ass. I was having NONE of it. She was there just to “do the job” by pouring drinks. I wanted to be spectacular to earn a good nights pay. We both got we deserved. ---
**Author:** ![twin\_infinitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b782af/32.png) [@twin\_infinitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twin_infinitive)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-generous-tippers/322956/54 "2005-09-23T02:08:29Z")
From what I can tell, **yerba buena** isn’t complaining about tipping at all. He is complaining about the fact that there is no understood standard for tipping. Since **Alice** has commented that a 20% tip is being cheap, his point has been proved. I have no problem tipping, but how am I supposed to tell if the waiter is someone like Alice? (So that I can leave no tip) ---
**Author:** ![twin\_infinitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b782af/32.png) [@twin\_infinitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twin_infinitive)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-generous-tippers/322956/55 "2005-09-23T02:10:23Z")
Incidentally, my system: good service: 20% not good: 15% exceptional service: varies ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-generous-tippers/322956/56 "2005-09-23T02:19:31Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Yea it is _somewhat_ unreasonable. If I went to a place where it was a cultural practice to abuse women, I wouldn’t follow that cultural practice. It’s called having the courage of your convictions or putting your money (in this case, lack of money) where your mouth is. Well, that’s one of the more incredibly stupid analogies i’ve seen on this board. > [@Weirddave](#): > > I am a very good waiter. Bully for you. Irrelevant to the disucssion. > [@Weirddave](#): > > I wouldn’t dream of doing the job for a set wage and no tips unless that wage was $20 an hour or more. Every good waiter I’ve worked with (that I can recall) feels the same. Well, FYI, my last waiter job in Australia, which was six years ago, paid me $A25 an hour. > [@Weirddave](#): > > Compare the service you get at a restaurant where low tips are the norm (say a Waffle House or a Dennys) with the service you get at a place like TGI Fridays or even a high end place like Ruth’s Chris Steak House. The former usually has high school students who simply take your order and then bring you the food, while the later has waiters who enhance your dining experience. This completely misses the point i was making in my previous post. Sure, there are places where the service is better than other places. But, in case you thought that every restaurant in non-tip countries was exactly the same, it might be worth pointing out to you that places like Australia and the UK have their own equivalent of Denny’s and Waffle House, and their own equivalent of TGI Fridays and Ruth’s Chris Steak House. And, as i said, in my experience the overall quality of service in the US and Canada is no better than the overall quality of service in Australia or the UK. And i’ve heard the same opinion from many other folks who have been to all those places. > [@Weirddave](#): > > I once tended bar for a wedding with another bartender. We both had tip jars on our end of the bar. She stood there and poured drinks. I busted my ass, made a point to be entertaining, remembered who was drinking what and more often than not had it waiting for them when I saw them approaching the bar. Once or twice I ran trays of drinks out to tables and shared a laugh or two while busing their empties. At the end of the night my jar was over twice as full as hers, the Bride’s father personally thanked me for doing a great job and slipped me a $50. The other bartender then tried to pull “Oh, we always pool tips on these jobs” out of her ass. I was having NONE of it. She was there just to “do the job” by pouring drinks. I wanted to be spectacular to earn a good nights pay. We both got we deserved. Wow, **dave** , you’re spectacular. :rolleyes: You’re also continuing to avoid the actual point. You made an assertion that “Adding it to the price of the food and then paying the servers $3 more an hour will cause the quality of the service to go way down.” I, in turn, made the observation that, based on long experience in four different countries, this does not actually seem to be the case. You respond by listing a few restaurant chains and telling us an anecdote about one lazy bartender. Got news for you, my friend, there are lazy assholes everywhere, working for wages or working for tips, and that’s not gonna change. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_You\_Big\_Red\_Fire\_Engine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/eada6e/32.png) [@Go\_You\_Big\_Red\_Fire\_Engine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_You_Big_Red_Fire_Engine)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-generous-tippers/322956/57 "2005-09-23T02:22:59Z")
Let me just start by saying that I am Australian and what I say may have little credence, so feel free to ignore. But, my boss started off paying me $AUD 8/hour. This is extremely low _here_. As I improved, he increased my wage to $14/hour, and I now get an equal split of the tips pool. On average, I make an extra $2/hour tips. The most I have made is an extra $5/hour. The only problem with this system is that the food is probably comparatively more expensive than America (mains are about $AUD20, Desserts $AUD 7 to $10). But this is only based upon heresy, I have never gone to America, but I hear the dining is much less expensive. Also, since the waitresses at my restaurant don’t have set tables, if someone tips me $15, it goes into the pool, rewarding all the waitstaff, not just me. Of course, my boss tries to alter this by giving different waitresses different cuts of the pool depending upon what the head waiter says about their service. I try to give the best service I can. If we pull in tips, the boss knows we are doing a good job and may increase our wages, give us free food and generally be nicer to us. I don’t like the people who automatically tip. If they’re a “tipper” just by nature, then I have no idea if I have done a good job or if it was just by habit. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-generous-tippers/322956/58 "2005-09-23T02:23:11Z")
Having both worked in tipped occupations and being a frequent diner-out, I’ve seen both sides of the equation, and I gotta say, **yerba** has a legitimate point. See, it’s been my experience that except for certain unusual circumstances, (extaordinarily good or extremely bad service) a tip, and the amount tipped, is not a reflection of how good the service was. It’s a reflection of how generous the person doing the tipping is. I’ve been stiffed too many times, and seen too many coworkers stiffed, when I/they/we busted ass giving great service, and seen many people tip generously when they got nothing more than average polite service. I have twice not tipped waitresses, once because despite the fact I was the only customer in her section, service was extremely slow and the waitress was totally inattentive, once because the waitress was downright rude. I also once tipped a waiter more than the cost of my meal because on a busy night, he went above and beyond what I could have reasonably expected (it involved a casino restaraunt where the union rules demanded that a cocktail server be brought in from a foriegn country to bring me a simple glass of wine, which had to be paid for in cash, and since I only had enough cash for bus fare home and was paying for my meal on my debit card, well… to make is short, the waiter made damn good and sure I got my wine, and I made damn good and sure he knew I appreciated it). I generally tip around 20%, more if the service is exceptional, but if it isn’t all that, I don’t tip less. If it’s really, really bad, I don’t tip at all. But really, I’m the exception. Most people are going to tip what they’re going to tip, no matter how good the service is. So, yes, I think it’s up to the restaurant to evaluate the server’s job performance and pay him/her accordingly. The customers, by and large, don’t. But then again, neither do most employers. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_You\_Big\_Red\_Fire\_Engine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/eada6e/32.png) [@Go\_You\_Big\_Red\_Fire\_Engine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_You_Big_Red_Fire_Engine)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-generous-tippers/322956/59 "2005-09-23T02:30:08Z")
> [@yerba buena](#): > > and how I should tip more for large groups because a group of 16 is harder to handle than 4 groups of 4. Ha! Give me one table of 16 over 4 tables of 4 any day. What Bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-generous-tippers/322956/60 "2005-09-23T02:31:18Z")
> [@Orual](#): > > Has anybody here besides **yerba buena** _ever_ been “lectured” about their tipping habits by waitstaff? 'Cause I sure as hell haven’t. Well, I know we are talking about restaurants, but… One time I was at a nail shop (cheapie place in the mall). The girl doing my nails finished up and I went to the register to pay on my credit card, planning to tip with the $7 I had in my purse after I paid. So I fill out the credit card slip and I see the girl look down, look up at me and roll her eyes. “Uh, aren’t you going to TIP?!? That is SO rude not to tip!” Me “Well, sweetheart, I WAS going to tip cash, but now? No. Now I’m not going to tip.” And I walked out. A $7 tip on a $14 fill would have been more than a nice tip. Too bad, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-generous-tippers/322956.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-generous-tippers/322956.md?page=4)