# I Pit overly liberal people **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 21, 2004, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-liberal-people/230409 "2004-02-21T20:18:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-liberal-people/230409/21 "2004-02-22T17:15:30Z")
Life without Excel would be a living hell And that’s the truth. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-liberal-people/230409/22 "2004-02-22T18:15:27Z")
> [@](#): > > One particular PC bit I hate is the term “homicide bomber” for “suicide bomber”. You have your terms reversed. “Homicide bomber” is championed by the same people who profess to disdain PC, not the people who champion PC. The “PC crowd” (such as they are) are willing to accept “suicide bomber” as an indicator that the person who detonated the explosives was willing to kill himself or herself to deliver the explosives. The “homicide bomber” crowd wants to emphasize the victims and whines loudly that using the word “suicide” bestows the notion of martyrdom on the bomber. “Homicide bomber” is almost exclusively the preserve of (some) members of the political Right (who are, by definition, not members of the “PC crowd”–although they are clearly as attuned to playing with words as the “PC crowd” is.) * * * As to the OP, I would be curious to see a link to an example of just what all the pissing and moaning is about. I doubt that it is as prevalent as the OP pretends. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-liberal-people/230409/23 "2004-02-22T18:18:14Z")
(Of course, while I doubt that I would bother agreeing with the OP’s opinion, I might have been more receptive to considering that opinion had there been any sign of English grammar in the post.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-liberal-people/230409/24 "2004-02-22T18:23:40Z")
I’d’ve thought _postperson_ was a corpse. And _preperson_ was a fetus. Live and learn. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-liberal-people/230409/25 "2004-02-22T18:44:47Z")
I disagree a little bit with **tomndebb** ; “homicide bomber” is a _classic_ example of Political Correctness. The fact that it’s used by Fox News and friends just shows that Political Correctness is not a monopoly of one side of the political spectrum (quadrant of the political plane, region of the political space, hyperdimension of the political tesseract, etc). ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-liberal-people/230409/26 "2004-02-22T19:57:58Z")
Oh, I agree that it is a classic case of politically inspired language abuse. On the other hand, the _phrase_ “politically correct” has already taken on a more specific meaning of “Left-wing inspired language manuipulation.” The phrase now has a meaning beyond its etymology. Similarly, we can find examples of the actions of Semitic Arabs being called “anti-semitic” since that word gained currency meaning “anti-Jewish,” or (in a more neutral setting) the phrase “Classical music” is generally used to identify most European orchestral genres, despite the existence of a particular “classical” period in musical history, and (going in the opposite direction) “Fundamentalist” has been expanded to include peoples of many religious beliefs beyond those of the early 20th-century American Christian movement to “preserve” biblical understanding. (I admit that it would be fun to see a few of the more obtuse Right-wing zealots sputter and fume at being called “PC” for their use of the “homicide bomber” phrase, but it would probably just go over the heads of those who needed to understand the point.) ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2004, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-liberal-people/230409/27 "2004-02-23T00:23:28Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > The “PC crowd” (such as they are) are willing to accept “suicide bomber” as an indicator that the person who detonated the explosives was willing to kill himself or herself to deliver the explosives. The “homicide bomber” crowd wants to emphasize the victims and whines loudly that using the word “suicide” bestows the notion of martyrdom on the bomber. “Homicide bomber” is almost exclusively the preserve of (some) members of the political Right (who are, by definition, not members of the “PC crowd”–although they are clearly as attuned to playing with words as the “PC crowd” is.) As has already been mentioned, the term _homicide bomber_ is an example of right-wing PCness (if PC is taken to mean twisting the language to benefit your side). I see both sides as being hypocritical here. If the right-wingers have such disdain for the leftist PCness, they should consider their own terminology. And if the left-wingers are so pro-PC in other instances, they should be using “homicide bomber.” ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2004, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-liberal-people/230409/28 "2004-02-23T06:54:02Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > But I can honestly say, I’ve never ran into any behaviour like that and I agree with whoever said above that “over PCness” is mostly a thing of the past and is something that people to bitch about without any real reason. Try using the term “Oriental” on various threads and see if we don’t still have our PC types running around loose. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2004, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-liberal-people/230409/29 "2004-02-23T14:57:14Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Try using the term “Oriental” on various threads and see if we don’t still have our PC types running around loose. Gee, maybe because those people find it offensive? Is using the word Asian that hard? Try it: “A” then a “S” then “I” followed by “A” then finally Mr. B’s right hand man, that’s right “N”. Only 5 letters, rather then 8! Everyone wins! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2004, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-liberal-people/230409/30 "2004-02-23T15:35:37Z")
> [@elf6c](#): > > Gee, maybe because those people find it offensive? Is using the word Asian that hard? > > Try it: “A” then a “S” then “I” followed by “A” then finally Mr. B’s right hand man, that’s right “N”. Only 5 letters, rather then 8! Everyone wins! See what I mean? ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2004, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-liberal-people/230409/31 "2004-02-23T15:42:06Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > See what I mean? No, nobody does. Sorry. Go for the 5, not for the 8. Its not “PC” not to use a derogitory term intentionally, it’s common decency. I don’t think you really want to join the spew offensive terms around, get roasted as a bigoted shithead, then claim the “anti-PC” forces are conspiring against you types do you? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2004, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-liberal-people/230409/32 "2004-02-23T15:52:05Z")
> [@elf6c](#): > > No, nobody does. Sorry. Go for the 5, not for the 8. > > Its not “PC” not to use a derogitory term intentionally, it’s common decency. I don’t think you really want to join the spew offensive terms around, get roasted as a bigoted shithead, then claim the “anti-PC” forces are conspiring against you types do you? > > 😕 I really don’t think Oriental is a term of hatred or bigotry. Just some academic types decided it was, and some excitable types came along for the ride, and now suddenly it’s in league with nigger, kike and wop … riiiiight. I don’t think people who use the term “oriental” hate Asians or intend to denigrate them via the term at all. Making it out as such is pure PC bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![UselessGit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/74df32/32.png) [@UselessGit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UselessGit)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2004, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-liberal-people/230409/33 "2004-02-23T16:21:06Z")
Political Correctness _per se_ is, of course, utter bullshit, but I believe it has opened a lot of people’s eyes to the fact that some terms are hurtful to some people. I think the _idea_ of PC has actually helped much more than PC ever will. ---
**Author:** ![YoudNeverGuess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a587f6/32.png) [@YoudNeverGuess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoudNeverGuess)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2004, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-liberal-people/230409/34 "2004-02-23T17:36:53Z")
> [@elf6c](#): > > Gee, maybe because those people find it offensive? Is using the word Asian that hard? > > Try it: “A” then a “S” then “I” followed by “A” then finally Mr. B’s right hand man, that’s right “N”. Only 5 letters, rather then 8! Everyone wins! _Really?!_ The word Oriental doesn’t seem to have any negative reactions here or maybe I’m missing something. For instance Chinese restaurants in particular often use the word Oriental in the name of the premises. At least Oriental gives some idea as to whether you’re referring to eastern or western asia. Surely to call someone ‘asian’ is even more insulting and generalising - like calling someone ‘african’. It would be ideal if people could automatically and instantly tell the difference between someone from Japan and someone from China or Malaysia or Thailand or Vietnam without hearing them speak but realistically people don’t always have the ability to do this straight off. It would be offensive if for instance someone had a malaysian friend/ aquaintance who they knew was malaysian and still referred to them as being of ‘oriental’ origin. Is it OK to say ‘east-asian’ or is that un-PC too and if it is OK well why isn’t ‘oriental’ OK since all it means is ‘eastern’ . When I go to the European continent/ non-english speaking countries people often can’t tell whether I’m Irish or English but you just tell them and it’s fine. Anyway I’ll quit this hi-jack now before it becomes a fully-fledged rant. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2004, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-liberal-people/230409/35 "2004-02-23T18:49:44Z")
> [@YoudNeverGuess](#): > > _Really?!_ > > The word Oriental doesn’t seem to have any negative reactions here or maybe I’m missing something. For instance Chinese restaurants in particular often use the word Oriental in the name of the premises. > > At least Oriental gives some idea as to whether you’re referring to eastern or western asia. Surely to call someone ‘asian’ is even more insulting and generalising - like calling someone ‘african’. It would be ideal if people could automatically and instantly tell the difference between someone from Japan and someone from China or Malaysia or Thailand or Vietnam without hearing them speak but realistically people don’t always have the ability to do this straight off. It would be offensive if for instance someone had a malaysian friend/ aquaintance who they knew was malaysian and still referred to them as being of ‘oriental’ origin. > > Is it OK to say ‘east-asian’ or is that un-PC too and if it is OK well why isn’t ‘oriental’ OK since all it means is ‘eastern’ . > > When I go to the European continent/ non-english speaking countries people often can’t tell whether I’m Irish or English but you just tell them and it’s fine. > > Anyway I’ll quit this hi-jack now before it becomes a fully-fledged rant. > > Sorry. Nothing to apologize about. The impression I received that is was in fact people of Asian descent that found the term offensive. I was surprised to hear that at the time. But, rather then pointless offending someone when another term is more common, I just remembered not to use it. But then again it wasn’t much of an effort for me. I will see if I can drag up a cite. ---
**Author:** ![labmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f19dbf/32.png) [@labmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labmonkey)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2004, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-liberal-people/230409/36 "2004-02-23T18:52:37Z")
> [@elf6c](#): > > Gee, maybe because those people find it offensive? Is using the word Asian that hard? > > Try it: “A” then a “S” then “I” followed by “A” then finally Mr. B’s right hand man, that’s right “N”. Only 5 letters, rather then 8! Everyone wins! Only overly PC Us’ers use the term Asian. My wife says “oriental”, I’ll correct her next time, just for you, though, even though I’m white, she’s Japanese and that would probably make me look like a condescending jackass, “Honey, you’re insulting yourself!” ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2004, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-liberal-people/230409/37 "2004-02-23T18:58:00Z")
Cite: [http://www.bartleby.com/64/C006/007.html](http://www.bartleby.com/64/C006/007.html) > [@](#): > > The American Heritage® Book of English Usage. > A Practical and Authoritative Guide to Contemporary English. 1996. > > 1. Names and Labels: Social, Racial, and Ethnic Terms > > § 7. Asian > Asian is now strongly preferred in place of Oriental for persons native to Asia or descended from an Asian people. Both terms are rooted in geography rather than ethnicity, but where Asian is neutral, Oriental sounds outdated and to many people even offensive. There is a further discussion at the link. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2004, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-liberal-people/230409/38 "2004-02-23T18:59:35Z")
> [@Tentacle Monster](#): > > “Chairperson”, “flight attendant”, and the like I have no problem with. I’ve never heard the terms “milkperson” or “postperson” before the OP. > > . Come to think of it, I haven’t heard “chairperson” much recently. People seem to have reverted to saying “chairman” or “chairwoman”, or even just “chair”. Actually I agree with the intent of gender neutral job titles, but find most of the “person” constructions awkward. “Firefighter”, “flight attendant”, and “server” are fine in this regard. Having said that, I did cringe when one of the children in a comic strip–I think it was “For Better Or Worse”, was talking about her day and said that she’d made a “person” of snow. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-liberal-people/230409/39 "2004-02-23T19:01:02Z")
> [@labmonkey](#): > > Only overly PC Us’ers use the term Asian. My wife says “oriental”, I’ll correct her next time, just for you, though, even though I’m white, she’s Japanese and that would probably make me look like a condescending jackass, “Honey, you’re insulting yourself!” Please let the dictionary people know- they seem to have disagreed with you. ---
**Author:** ![labmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f19dbf/32.png) [@labmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labmonkey)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2004, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-liberal-people/230409/40 "2004-02-23T19:08:09Z")
I’ll get right on the phone. I was just saying the term “Asian” has not really taken root in the rest of the world the way it has in the states. I believe in Europe, Asian refers to natives of the Indian sub-continent only. A good portion of the world still uses the term “oriental” with no malice intended, and non taken. It is not at the same as nigger, kike, wop , polock… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-liberal-people/230409.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-overly-liberal-people/230409.md?page=3)