# I pit people using rat poison unnecessarily. (Mercy killing of mouse) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 8, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-using-rat-poison-unnecessarily-mercy-killing-of-mouse/627615 "2012-07-08T18:42:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-using-rat-poison-unnecessarily-mercy-killing-of-mouse/627615/141 "2012-07-10T23:52:10Z")
I don’t think mice are cute, or “cuddly”. They’re gross. I wouldn’t want one as a pet, I wouldn’t even want to touch one. Last year a family of mice moved into my bedroom, and I was terrified I’d wake up with one of those nasty little bastards in my bed. Still, I wouldn’t even consider a method of extermination that involved excessive pain for the mouse, until it was the very last resort. Even then, I would still feel bad about, even if I knew it was necessary. Whether they’re cute or not doesn’t even enter into it. I know they feel physical pain, and I know what it’s like to feel physical pain. My empathy extends to other species, including “vermin”. Clearly not everybody’s does, and judging by the some of the posts here some people can’t even wrap their head around such a concept. So really there’s nothing to debate here. Some (most?) people just can’t feel empathy for a mouse. If you don’t, you don’t, it’s not really something I can argue into you. ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-using-rat-poison-unnecessarily-mercy-killing-of-mouse/627615/142 "2012-07-11T00:14:00Z")
Ha! Thanks **Crab Rangoon** , I just had a bit of a chuckle imagining how that Martha Stewart episode would go. Martha Stewart Mousetraps, now available at K-Mart in the bedazzled shoe section, for fashionable dispatchment. ---
**Author:** ![Crab\_Rangoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Crab\_Rangoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crab_Rangoon)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-using-rat-poison-unnecessarily-mercy-killing-of-mouse/627615/143 "2012-07-11T00:20:58Z")
> [@SeaDragonTattoo](#): > > Ha! Thanks **Crab Rangoon** , I just had a bit of a chuckle imagining how that Martha Stewart episode would go. Martha Stewart Mousetraps, now available at K-Mart in the bedazzled shoe section, for fashionable dispatchment. In a variety of colors to match the curtains and dust ruffles. It’s a good thing! ---
**Author:** ![kyogi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/51bf81/32.png) [@kyogi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kyogi)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-using-rat-poison-unnecessarily-mercy-killing-of-mouse/627615/144 "2012-07-11T05:22:19Z")
> [@Crab\_Rangoon](#): > > OK - this is priceless. So - there are two “models” of groundhog that we’ve seen. The young 'uns simply need to see the cage - unbaited - to walk into it for the sake of curiosity. Bam - that’s how we caught about 8 or nine of them. Just keep setting it out near where the hole is - and they just keep exploring. That’s the easy model. > > Then of course, you have the more experienced set - the adults. Amazingly enough - if we set the cage out directly in front of the hole - and constructed barriers to either side - they would go into the trap. Got em again. That was with the one who lived under the garden shed - and it was easy to create the barriers around the cage (chicken wire). > > The other adults who had holes that were out in the open - or across the road under the neighbor’s abandoned house - we baited with…are you ready? …my husband found this suggestion on some Mother Jones website…melon. That is apparently the ambrosia of the varmints. Cantaloupe. Give it a try and good luck - we caught maybe 3 or 4 this way. > > Then of course - there was the one that my husband actually had to stalk and just plain shoot outright - that was was a big 'un from across the road. We had permission from the property owner to take them out, of course - but sometimes the direct method is the only way to go. > > The one caveat that I might mention - is that the time of the year may have something to do with our bounty of catches - early in the year when they are first out with the relatively young and I imagine are pretty hungry may help a lot with catching them. That is of course my WAG on why we have been so successful. The downside? The little buggers just keep moving in from surrounding locations - so it’s a never ending project. This year has been insanely prolific for rodents around here. > > Good luck! They dodge to the outbuildings for cover, but they live somewhere down in the holler. No curiosity catches or corralling. Canteloupe was first choice (advice gleaned from the same mama). So, I guess trappin’ just ain’t in my blood. Still, thanks for your insight. ---
**Author:** ![Jules27](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@Jules27](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules27)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-using-rat-poison-unnecessarily-mercy-killing-of-mouse/627615/145 "2012-07-11T08:00:04Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > True or false: drowning is quicker than days of internal hemorrhaging. > > What it comes down to, Jules, is that you don’t find killing mice acceptable regardless of how it’s done. You’re putting their “right” to existence ahead of the humans, because it’s more important to keep wire-chewing, disease-spreading rodents and burned out houses and people dying is just unfortunate collateral damage - _their_ suffering doesn’t matter to you. > > Go live in that temple in India where they feed and worship the rats so you can be with the species you love more than your own. You can fuck right off please. Being a little kinder when killing something and not being an inhumane jerk about things does not mean I am putting their right of existence ahead of humans, you’re just making that up. You’re putting words into my mouth. Now, I have already mentioned, that I don’t disagree with killing mice, so keep your strawmanning, misinterpreting bullshit to yourself. That is not what I had said at all, you’ve missed the point completely because you are too idiotic to comprehend what I am trying to say. > [@Lacunae\_Matata](#): > > So what’s your suggestion for a faster, more painless, foolproof method? Do you keep veterinary supplies around so that you can humanely euthanize an animal quickly and painlessly? A Kevorkian machine maybe? Seriously, what’s a better option? Even shooting it doesn’t guarantee a quick kill. Nor does whacking it with a shovel or such. Relatively speaking, a quick drowning is humane. The fact that I also flush Angel Soft down the same receptacle doesn’t have any bearing on the ultimate fate of that mouse. > > But maybe I’m just not an animal lover. I guess all of these dogs, birds, and even the occasional reptile, cat, deer, or pig I’ve rescued and fostered through the years were just the beneficiaries of my delusions. :dubious: An animal lover would realise that a swift blow to the head is far, far more quicker than drowning. And yes, shooting it would too be more humane, as would a shovel. Mice are small fragile animals, destroy the brain quickly and they won’t have time to think/panic/feel pain. You on the other hand, treated the suffering animals like a piece of poo - something to flush down the toilet. That’s being an animal lover?? Yeah right. Besides, flushing it down the toilet is no guarantee it will drown. It may be pushed down. The pipes aren’t full of water 100% of the time. There was a story of someone flushing a puppy down the toilet, and it survived. Perhaps your solution isn’t humane as you’d like to think (as if drowning is humane anyway). ---
**Author:** ![Jules27](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@Jules27](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules27)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-using-rat-poison-unnecessarily-mercy-killing-of-mouse/627615/146 "2012-07-11T08:03:34Z")
> [@emcee2k](#): > > Clearly not everybody’s does, and judging by the some of the posts here some people can’t even wrap their head around such a concept. Yeah, there’s a word for that: a sociopath. ---
**Author:** ![Jules27](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@Jules27](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules27)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-using-rat-poison-unnecessarily-mercy-killing-of-mouse/627615/147 "2012-07-11T08:15:27Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > No, it ain’t hunting just because I use a BB gun on 'em. And I don’t “shoot to wound”. But if they get wounded, instead of killed, too bad for them. > > You have major screwy ideas. You obviously are unfamiliar with nature. Hint: Bambi _wasn’t_ a documentary. No, it is hunting. You’re actively seeking out an animal to kill it, for a specific reason. That is the definition of hunting. Whether you use a high powered rifle, a BB gun or a sharp stick, it doesn’t change the definition. Finishing off a wounded animal in an act of mercy isn’t a “screwy idea”. Respecting life and showing decency when killing something isn’t “screwy” either. Perhaps you’d like to explain why not being an asshole is “screwy”. Is this an attempt to look tough? What is it? ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-using-rat-poison-unnecessarily-mercy-killing-of-mouse/627615/148 "2012-07-11T08:28:19Z")
> [@Jules27](#): > > Yeah, there’s a word for that: a sociopath. Don’t you mean mousiopath? 😃 **Jules27** , apart from in jest, nobody here seriously wants to inflict unnecessary pain and suffering upon our rodent-cousins. We want to expediently rid our houses of their presence, and depending upon where we live, the methods might vary. It’s all well and good to promote the short, sharp blow to the head, but have you ever tried to actually catch a mouse in order to deliver this blow? Methinks you are somewhat of a romantic, and that’s fine too. But when your area suffers a mouse-plague like [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjWK6c7ak0Y), you can be damned sure that a hammer or two is not gonna work much magic. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-using-rat-poison-unnecessarily-mercy-killing-of-mouse/627615/149 "2012-07-11T10:51:28Z")
> [@Jules27](#): > > You can fuck right off please. Being a little kinder when killing something and not being an inhumane jerk about things does not mean I am putting their right of existence ahead of humans, you’re just making that up. So far you’ve accused _every single person here_ of being inhumane regardless of method used to kill mice. How else to interpret this? You’ve got your panties in a bunch because no one is kissing the feet of a bleeding-heart, “enlightened” entity such as yourself. You waltzed in here to save the masses (of mice if not people) and are just _shocked_ that you weren’t hailed as the messiah. Here’s the real kicker: the question wasn’t “is drowning an OK way to kill mice”, it was “Is drowning more or less bad than letting a mouse linger for days while dying of poison?” More evidence of your kneejerk approach to the whole matter. You aren’t interested in having a discussion or even an argument, you only want to bludgeon people into compliance with your narrow viewpoint. > [@](#): > > An animal lover would realise that a swift blow to the head is far, far more quicker than drowning. Fine. You come up with a foolproof way to catch the mice and administer a blow to the head without hazard to humans and I’ll go with that. Fact is, the mice aren’t going to cooperate. If you don’t take 'em out the first time they’re going to try to escape, wounded or not, and since they can get into places like walls it’s not always possible to pursue them to finish the job. Unless you propose that people destroy drywall in pursuit of them? Not going to happen. Likewise your demand someone dismantle a woodpile - do you _seriously_ think the animal is just going to stand there waiting for the humans? No, wounded or not it will continue to try to escape. > [@](#): > > You on the other hand, treated the suffering animals like a piece of poo - something to flush down the toilet. Is it OK with you if we flush them down the toilet _after_ they’re dead? Or is a formal funeral required followed by burial and a small, mouse-sized gravemarker? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-using-rat-poison-unnecessarily-mercy-killing-of-mouse/627615/150 "2012-07-11T10:54:16Z")
I’m still not over the fact that someone’s first reaction upon seeing a sick mouse is to _pick it up_. Ew… ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-using-rat-poison-unnecessarily-mercy-killing-of-mouse/627615/151 "2012-07-11T11:02:07Z")
> [@Jules27](#): > > There was a story of someone flushing a puppy down the toilet, and it survived. Story hour is 3:00 to 4:00 with Miss Johnson. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-using-rat-poison-unnecessarily-mercy-killing-of-mouse/627615/152 "2012-07-11T12:34:10Z")
> [@Jules27](#): > > No, it is hunting. You’re actively seeking out an animal to kill it, for a specific reason. That is the definition of hunting. Whether you use a high powered rifle, a BB gun or a sharp stick, it doesn’t change the definition. > > Finishing off a wounded animal in an act of mercy isn’t a “screwy idea”. Respecting life and showing decency when killing something isn’t “screwy” either. Perhaps you’d like to explain why not being an asshole is “screwy”. Is this an attempt to look tough? What is it? Perhaps I’m “hunting” you with this sharp stick -----\> : poke : ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-using-rat-poison-unnecessarily-mercy-killing-of-mouse/627615/153 "2012-07-11T12:55:27Z")
I use the Richard Gere method. ---
**Author:** ![Azeotrope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/0ea827/32.png) [@Azeotrope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azeotrope)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-using-rat-poison-unnecessarily-mercy-killing-of-mouse/627615/154 "2012-07-11T12:59:16Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > So far you’ve accused _every single person here_ of being inhumane regardless of method used to kill mice. How else to interpret this? You’ve got your panties in a bunch because no one is kissing the feet of a bleeding-heart, “enlightened” entity such as yourself. You waltzed in here to save the masses (of mice if not people) and are just _shocked_ that you weren’t hailed as the messiah. Jules27 ought to pony up the membership fee so they can get a custom title: THE MOUSE-IAH. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-using-rat-poison-unnecessarily-mercy-killing-of-mouse/627615/155 "2012-07-11T14:01:45Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > … > Animal cruelty sucks. ☹ And having to kill a beastie with your own hands sucks too. I’m on team human, but, I sincerely admire your empathy and wish I felt the way you felt about animals. It’s rare to find compassion in this world so I salute you (and other like-minded individuals in the thread), although, there’s a part of me that would argue that there’s enough human suffering to diminish would-be empathy toward animals. It’s not required but I feel obliged to admit that I have a cat. In some ways, I love my cat as I would a human. However, I would kill the bitch dead in the most horrible ways if it meant saving the life of a single human being. The will and comfort of humanity takes precedent over an animal in _all_ cases. In your example, I don’t think the use of rat poison is inhumane. I consider that humane; the contrary would be to purposely let loose a 1000 owls and videotape the carnage. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-using-rat-poison-unnecessarily-mercy-killing-of-mouse/627615/156 "2012-07-11T14:50:57Z")
> [@Jules27](#): > > Yeah, there’s a word for that: a sociopath. Are you actually a mouse? That might explain some things… ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-using-rat-poison-unnecessarily-mercy-killing-of-mouse/627615/157 "2012-07-11T19:54:58Z")
> [@ugly ripe tomato](#): > > Jules27 ought to pony up the membership fee so they can get a custom title: > > THE MOUSE-IAH. Good point, my Dearest Tomato… from Handel’s Messiah: ``` (42) He that dwelleth in heaven Psalm 2:4 4. He that dwelleth in the heavens shall laugh them to scorn; the Lord shall have them in derision. ``` And: ``` (31) He was cut off out of the land of the living Isaiah 53:8b 8. he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of [Thy] people was He stricken. ``` **Jules27** does not impress me, my lovely Hot-House Tomato. I impress me. You impress me. Shit, even **BigT** is almost impressive, by that standard. **Jules27** does, indeed, impress me… as an idiot. **Jules27** is the epitome of “idiot”. Consequently, **Jules27** bores me. H/She/It is a fool. And I am bored by it. I shall poke it with this stick… ----\> : poke : And again, I shall poke it with this stick… ----\> : poke : We are in the presence of greatness. Great idiocy. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-using-rat-poison-unnecessarily-mercy-killing-of-mouse/627615/158 "2012-07-11T23:41:11Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Under normal circumstances rats and mice don’t need to drink, they can get all the moisture they need fro their food. So, as an aside, how come they don’t need to drink, while we humans drink a lot? Is it because they eat more compared to their size, and therefore consume more water in that way (compared to size)? ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-using-rat-poison-unnecessarily-mercy-killing-of-mouse/627615/159 "2012-07-12T00:16:37Z")
My house has been rat free for several months now. I use a cage trap baited with bread, they get in there and are trapped live with enough bread for a decent last supper. I then drop the entire trap in a bucket of cold water. How am I doing for humane killing? I don’t like the idea of poison but probably would use it if I didn’t have two small dogs. Well the fuckers are back! The problem with this method is I have to get my killer instinct up to a certain fury before I tackle it because I have to actually drown them. If I was using poison I would have put it down by now. ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-using-rat-poison-unnecessarily-mercy-killing-of-mouse/627615/160 "2012-07-12T00:24:14Z")
[http://www.victorpest.com/store/rat-control/m240](http://www.victorpest.com/store/rat-control/m240) Anyone tried this? Could a small dog nose hit the zapper? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-using-rat-poison-unnecessarily-mercy-killing-of-mouse/627615.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-using-rat-poison-unnecessarily-mercy-killing-of-mouse/627615.md?page=9)