# I pit people who don't pay attention to their kids at the grocery store **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2012, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881 "2012-10-06T05:54:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/181 "2012-10-14T14:39:31Z")
I’m sorry for sewing confusion. Yes, of course, I took advantage of the hijack about training kids and dogs (which, yes, in some ways is quite similar, especially in the under-3 human age group, and in other ways is entirely different, in that no one is trying to raise self-aware dogs) to insert a snide “don’t feed the troll” in code. The problem with saying, “just ignore it!” is that saying that is actively not-ignoring it, so I took the moment to make an attempted funny not-saying-it-but-saying-it. It really wasn’t meant to engender further conversation. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/182 "2012-10-14T16:09:13Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > These weren’t toddlers. Start putting them out of reach for 8 to 10 year olds and some adults won’t reach them either. Cue [Randy Newman](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFmv22ghzQw) 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/183 "2012-10-15T00:16:42Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Another “business theory” is that 1% of your customers cause 99% of your headaches. > > I subscribe to this theory. Maybe once a year I tell someone to leave and never come back. I say it in front of a witness, and I explain that if the person returns I will call the police. I say it in a calm, rational way with a smile on my face. > > Works for me. Sure. I support occasionally fireing the customer, but that’s because they’ve gone to some extreme , maybe more than once. That’s not the case here. You don’t tell someone to never come back because his kids got too much bulk candy. If you start being a hardass with every customer on every issue it’s generally bad business. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/184 "2012-10-15T10:52:08Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > You don’t tell someone to never come back because his kids got too much bulk candy. Maybe not, but I sure as hell would have restocked the canned goods, etc and the guy would have walked out with $150 worth of bulk goods. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Woodhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@Miss\_Woodhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Woodhouse)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/185 "2012-10-15T17:19:22Z")
I know what store the OP works at because I shop at one quite frequently. In fact, I’m a huge fan of the bulk bins there. It’s the cheapest way to buy oatmeal and cocoa powder and a few other things we buy frequently. I can tell you that the Jelly Bellies are kept in bins with chutes on them up high out of the reach of small children. They also cost more than $10 a pound. I believe last time I looked they were approaching $15/lb. So the children in the original story would have had to bag up between 10 and 15 lbs of jelly beans. That’s a lot of celebrating. The father has to be some kind of ignorant twit to not see that 10 pounds of premium grade candy is going to cost a lot of money. It is interesting that any story involving children and stores always degrades into this same “no one disciplines their children anymore!!1!!!1!!” argument. I also find it curious that anyone would think that discipline and love are mutually exclusive. That’s a brain twist right there. The idea that you can not correct someone without removing love says to me that those posters have some crazy twisted minds. Correcting a child on their misbehavior is one of the great ways we show our love. It says “hey, this doesn’t work. I want you to be better. Let me help you.” ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/186 "2012-10-15T20:53:38Z")
> [@Miss\_Woodhouse](#): > > I also find it curious that anyone would think that discipline and love are mutually exclusive. That’s a brain twist right there. The idea that you can not correct someone without removing love says to me that those posters have some crazy twisted minds. I think they don’t understand the difference between correction and punishment. Of course, if a parent is subscribing to the “be your child’s best friend” theory, I suppose even correction is forbidden! ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/187 "2012-10-16T00:48:53Z")
> [@Miss\_Woodhouse](#): > > I also find it curious that anyone would think that discipline and love are mutually exclusive. That’s a brain twist right there. The idea that you can not correct someone without removing love says to me that those posters have some crazy twisted minds. I think it’s more to the point that some posters imagine a strawman of “be your child’s best friend” or “unconditional love” that implies no correction, and seem to honestly believe this view is prevalent or common somehow. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/188 "2012-10-16T03:32:13Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I think it’s more to the point that some posters imagine a strawman of “be your child’s best friend” or “unconditional love” that implies no correction, and seem to honestly believe this view is prevalent or common somehow. It certainly is in California and given some of the stories in here, it appears to be an issue elsewhere as well. Unless you consider ignoring bad behavior to be a “correction”? ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/189 "2012-10-16T09:16:02Z")
> [@Miss\_Woodhouse](#): > > It is interesting that any story involving children and stores always degrades into this same “no one disciplines their children anymore!!1!!!1!!” argument. I also find it curious that anyone would think that discipline and love are mutually exclusive. That’s a brain twist right there. The idea that you can not correct someone without removing love says to me that those posters have some crazy twisted minds. Any story involving children in any way at all very quickly dissolves into “today’s kids are the worst kids in the history of the world! Why, when I was a child we did nothing but smile sweetly and behave like little angels!”. It’s amazing how many people believe that human nature can experience such fundamental changes in such a short time. ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/190 "2012-10-16T09:39:44Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I think it’s more to the point that some posters imagine a strawman of “be your child’s best friend” or “unconditional love” that implies no correction, and seem to honestly believe this view is prevalent or common somehow. I actually once knew someone who believed that it was harmful to children to correct them. We were tending kids in the church nursery one day (18-month to 3-year-old kids), and I told one little boy “no, don’t throw blocks, you could hurt someone”. Calm, friendly tone of voice, little boy said “OK”, went back to playing with no evident distress. Other adult present freaked out about how damaging it was to children to use the word “no”. Guess whose kids were the worst-behaved in the congregation? (Hint: wasn’t the little boy I’d had to correct or his older sister, who had sensible parents. They were terrific kids, I babysat them one evening so their parents could have an evening out, and they were great at home, too.) ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/191 "2012-10-16T09:58:06Z")
Apparently, I suck at snark. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/192 "2012-10-16T15:56:47Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > It certainly is in California and given some of the stories in here, it appears to be an issue elsewhere as well. Unless you consider ignoring bad behavior to be a “correction”? I suspect confirmation bias, given that I don’t even see one in fifty kids being allowed to behave badly uncorrected. I have a toddler, I go to daycares, kid-friendly restaurants, and toy stores, and I see a lot of kids out and about. The proportion of parents who actively ignore bad behavior is pretty much under 5%. > [@Seanette](#): > > I actually once knew someone who believed that it was harmful to children to correct them. Oh, I’m not disputing the fact the view exists, just that it’s not terribly common. I bet that was the only set of parents in the nursery who did that. ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/193 "2012-10-16T16:00:02Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > (belief that correcting a child is harmful to the child) Oh, I’m not disputing the fact the view exists, just that it’s not terribly common. I bet that was the only set of parents in the nursery who did that. That was a mother whose husband was active-duty military (I want to say Navy and at sea). No idea about Dad’s parenting approach. So far as I’m aware, you’re right that she was the only parent in our congregation who was THAT far gone. Most of the other parents realized that they had a responsibility to their children and society to raise people who could cope with the reality of rules and the needs/safety/rights of those around them. ---
**Author:** ![Missy2U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@Missy2U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Missy2U)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/194 "2012-10-16T16:48:48Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Apparently, I suck at snark. Nah - you’re just fine. I got it - it was very subtle. And for the record, I snorted. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/195 "2012-10-16T20:20:28Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > My bolding of course. And I’m commenting solely on the bolded bit btw. > > I’m racking my brains here to think of _something_ in my past experience or reading that might even come _close_ to being so fucking stupid and so gratuitously hateful at the same time. > > Nup…nothing comes to mind. > > :rolleyes: Having dealt with **ZPG** on this subject before (since I am an adoptive parent and my kids call me ‘mom’) it’s probably not the worst I have heard. FTR, I love my kids unconditionally. I don’t like them sometimes and often they make me angry. They certainly get disciplined. My two favourite mom phrases are: I am not your friend. I am your mom. You need to behave as such. I don’t like you right now but I will always love you. **ZPG** is a complete fucknut when it comes to adoption. She really wants my kids to be stigmatized since they we unlucky enough to be born to a shit for a mom (and a non-existant dad). Is it odd that I would really like to meet her (actually, I would like to have her come hang out at our house) so she can see what family really means? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/196 "2012-10-16T22:23:42Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > Any story involving children in any way at all very quickly dissolves into “today’s kids are the worst kids in the history of the world! Why, when I was a child we did nothing but smile sweetly and behave like little angels!”. It’s amazing how many people believe that human nature can experience such fundamental changes in such a short time. What’s amazing is that no one has said any of those things. > [@Zeriel](#): > > I suspect confirmation bias, given that I don’t even see one in fifty kids being allowed to behave badly uncorrected. I have a toddler, I go to daycares, kid-friendly restaurants, and toy stores, and I see a lot of kids out and about. The proportion of parents who actively ignore bad behavior is pretty much under 5%. I did say “in California”. I travel a lot, particularly in state, and I see many children who are allowed to run amok in restaurants/stores, who scream (not yell, _scream_) unchecked, who talk back to their parents and other adults without consequence, etc. Since this is the land of fruits and nuts, it is quite possible that it is just a popular “parenting” technique here and not so popular elsewhere. OTOH, there have been a lot of articles over the years about the affect of raising children who have never known real competition (such as, giving equal prizes to all who show up); or raising them as the most important being in the family; and the state of manners, or rather the serious lack thereof, of kids in the schools. Perhaps those were just kids raised here, but I really doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/197 "2012-10-17T04:06:27Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I did say “in California”. I travel a lot, particularly in state, and I see many children who are allowed to run amok in restaurants/stores, who scream (not yell, _scream_) unchecked, who talk back to their parents and other adults without consequence, etc. Since this is the land of fruits and nuts, it is quite possible that it is just a popular “parenting” technique here and not so popular elsewhere. In order to rule out confirmation bias, the question remains: how many well behaved kids do you see? And are you of a mindset that is inclined to notice well-behaved kids as present, or does your gaze slide off of them unless they’re actively causing you annoyance? Given your well-known attitude about children in general, I can’t help but think you’re not seeing the complete picture. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/198 "2012-10-17T04:18:31Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > In order to rule out confirmation bias, the question remains: how many well behaved kids do you see? And are you of a mindset that is inclined to notice well-behaved kids as present, or does your gaze slide off of them unless they’re actively causing you annoyance? > > Given your well-known attitude about children in general, I can’t help but think you’re not seeing the complete picture. Given the fact you are prejudging me based on what others have said, I doubt anything I say will convince you that you are full of shit. For one thing, you act like I said ALL kids are undisciplined. For another, “confirmation bias” actually causes me to notice almost all of the kids around me, because past experience makes me expect that I am going to have to put up with unnecessary loud noise and/or commotion. And, unless you live in Orange County, Southern California, you have no concept of what the average kid is like here. So, if anyone doesn’t have the complete picture, it looks like that person would be you. It’s well known that there are various “hands off” style parenting theories running around out there, why don’t you go have a Google at it? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/199 "2012-10-17T05:26:14Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Given the fact you are prejudging me based on what others have said Er, no, you have provided quite enough examples over your time on this board for most everyone to be independently in possession of ample evidence that you hate kids, liberals, and basically everything that’s not you. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/200 "2012-10-17T05:47:12Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > In order to rule out confirmation bias, the question remains: how many well behaved kids do you see? And are you of a mindset that is inclined to notice well-behaved kids as present, or does your gaze slide off of them unless they’re actively causing you annoyance? I don’t think you can even rule out confirmation bias that way. Even if curlie looks at every single child in her presence and declares them all to be poorly behaved, it tells us nothing about what her definition of ‘poorly behaved’ is. Give the way the resident child-haters around here talk, I’m inclined to think that they believe any child that they can see or hear doing anything at all is a bad child being raised by a bad parent. Look at the vitriol in this thread towards children who had the sheer gall to pick out candy when their dad told them it was okay. And toward a child who, at 4, is not docile and angelic during every trip to the grocery store. I’ve said it before - people who are looking for trouble will find that trouble surrounds them. People who mind their own business and skip the judgy-judgy stuff generally find that they are surrounded by nice (or at least not actively unpleasant) people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881.md?page=11)