# I pit people who don't pay attention to their kids at the grocery store **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2012, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881 "2012-10-06T05:54:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/201 "2012-10-17T06:05:11Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > I don’t think you can even rule out confirmation bias that way. Even if curlie looks at every single child in her presence and declares them all to be poorly behaved, it tells us nothing about what her definition of ‘poorly behaved’ is. Give the way the resident child-haters around here talk, I’m inclined to think that they believe any child that they can see or hear doing anything at all is a bad child being raised by a bad parent. My personal favorite in this regard are the occasional people who snarl about the noisy kids or make angry faces at me when I’m sitting with my daughter in the local brewpub and she is pointing at the funny men throwing the ball on TV and talking at a reasonable volume. A) this place has child seats, a kid’s menu, and full-size coloring books. B) this is a cafe with a bar and TVs with Steelers football on, a fan group not known for being quiet in central PA. C) she’s being noticeably less loud than the two drunk guys screaming at the TV you just walked past to give me a piece of your mind. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/202 "2012-10-17T06:05:14Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Er, no, you have provided quite enough examples over your time on this board for most everyone to be independently in possession of ample evidence that you hate kids, liberals, and basically everything that’s not you. Thanks for the laugh, I actually laughed out loud on this one. You cannot find one post of mine that says any of that - if nothing else, it requires far too much energy for me to hate anyone. Sure, I resent being required to put up with screaming destructive children, and then having the “privilege” to pay to support children their parents had no business having, but I am certainly not alone in any of that - do all folks who feel that way “hate kids”? Maybe someday people will realize that having kids is a choice just like any other choice, and there simply isn’t something so important about it that it should be considered above all else, but I’d just be happy if parents would go back to raising their kids in a way that makes it likely they will grow up to be worthwhile humans. And quit expecting everyone else to think their kids are as important as they think they are. Liberals? That’s even funnier. No one political party/ideology comes close to covering the things that are important to me, so why are you focusing on liberals? I support abortion, birth control, sex ed and pretty much anything else that makes the religious right crazy. Just because I’m financial conservative doesn’t mean I “hate liberals”. Good lord. Maybe I’m getting an idea where you got this fixation on confirmation bias… > [@Meyer6](#): > > ``` > I don't think you can even rule out confirmation bias that way. Even if curlie looks at every single child in her presence and declares them all to be poorly behaved, it tells us nothing about what her definition of 'poorly behaved' is. > > ``` Thank you for the quick example of the sort of post that causes people like **Zeriel** to assume he has a clue about me. I’ve said many, _many_ times what I consider to be poorly behaved, but you prefer to ignore it and make up your own stories. > [@](#): > > Give the way the resident child-haters around here talk, I’m inclined to think that they believe any child that they can see or hear doing anything at all is a bad child being raised by a bad parent. Look at the vitriol in this thread towards children who had the sheer gall to pick out candy when their dad told them it was okay. And toward a child who, at 4, is not docile and angelic during every trip to the grocery store. Or you completely willfully misunderstand and exaggerate what has been said. Vitriol? “Cruel and bitter criticism”? Most of the criticism was aimed at the father who was really clueless in that story, and what there was aimed at the children (who probably should have known better as well) certainly wasn’t cruel or bitter. Expecting docile and angelic? Where do you get that from the responses to “I chase my 4 year old around like he’s wandering through a construction zone, and he still gets into things I don’t want him to. Then I throw my 3 items in the basket, and desperately try to keep him away from the candy at the checkout.” And, none of the complaints were aimed at the child himself, despite what you say. > [@](#): > > I’ve said it before - people who are looking for trouble will find that trouble surrounds them. People who mind their own business and skip the judgy-judgy stuff generally find that they are surrounded by nice (or at least not actively unpleasant) people. You should try that some time, see how it works for you. I’d love to be left to mind my own business, but it simply isn’t allowed. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/203 "2012-10-17T07:02:51Z")
Well, Zeriel, apparently you would never have noticed that curlcoat was a bitch if I didn’t tell you. So, um, sorry about that, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/204 "2012-10-17T08:00:46Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Sure, I resent being required to put up with screaming destructive children, and then having the “privilege” to pay to support children their parents had no business having, but I am certainly not alone in any of that - I resent having to listen to shrieking harpies and then having the privilege of paying for her ‘Disability Pension’ out of my weekly taxes…if only her parents had realised they had no business having her in the first place. Y’see, works both ways darls…being accommodated in a glass house leaves one fewer missiles to hurl. 😃 > [@](#): > > I’d love to be left to mind my own business, but it simply isn’t allowed. Damn, you must be the unluckiest old broad around!! I travel public transport twice a day (45 km each way), go shopping at malls at least ONCE every two days, traverse public shopping strips five out of seven days, and I manage to mind my own business each and every time. So, what’s YOUR problem **curlcoat**?? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/205 "2012-10-17T14:38:05Z")
See, \*\*curlcoat’s \*\*actual disability is that she secretes a mysterious pheromone that is only detectable by misbehaving children and tax collectors. They can’t get enough of it, and swarm to her like dogs to an overturned sausage delivery truck. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/206 "2012-10-17T15:10:10Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > I travel public transport twice a day (45 km each way), go shopping at malls at least ONCE every two days, traverse public shopping strips five out of seven days, and I manage to mind my own business each and every time. Unless your precious little grandbastards are being ignored or someone complains about an annoying child, then you seem to make it your business to tell everyone how babies and children are angelic beings who deserve respect far and above adults who actually contribute to society. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/207 "2012-10-17T15:46:05Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > My personal favorite in this regard are the occasional people who snarl about the noisy kids or make angry faces at me when I’m sitting with my daughter in the local brewpub and she is pointing at the funny men throwing the ball on TV and talking at a reasonable volume. > > A) this place has child seats, a kid’s menu, and full-size coloring books. > B) this is a cafe with a bar and TVs with Steelers football on, a fan group not known for being quiet in central PA. > C) she’s being noticeably less loud than the two drunk guys screaming at the TV you just walked past to give me a piece of your mind. Your brewpub needs to decide if they’re a pub or a family restaurant. Pubs are one of the few places I can hope to have a meal or drink without having kids around, except kids are allowed in bars and pubs here if there aren’t any VLTs on site, and some parents don’t seem to understand that a pub is an adult environment. I’d say you get 50% of the blame for not understanding that, and the pub gets the other 50% for making any accommodations for clueless parents. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/208 "2012-10-17T15:46:17Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Unless your precious little grandbastards are being ignored or someone complains about an annoying child, then you seem to make it your business to tell everyone how babies and children are angelic beings who deserve respect far and above adults who actually contribute to society. You should probably actually start contributing to society before you make this particular bitch, you mouth-breathing con artist. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/209 "2012-10-17T15:47:38Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I’d say you get 50% of the blame for not understanding that, and the pub gets the other 50% for making any accommodations for clueless parents. I’d say you’re an gibbering moron, then, because the staff loves my well-behaved daughter, and it’s only the few curmudgeonly idiots who think any kid in public is automatically ill-behaved who have a problem with her behavior. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/210 "2012-10-17T15:49:33Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Unless your precious little grandbastards are being ignored or someone complains about an annoying child, then you seem to make it your business to tell everyone how babies and children are angelic beings who deserve respect far and above adults who actually contribute to society. Babies and children are not angels. None of them are. Even the best behaved child is at least occasionally bratty, moody, cranky or just plain annoying. Yes, there are bad parents out there. Yes, their kids can be like harpies in public places. However, what you don’t notice (since we work hard for you not to notice) are the good parents out there who have trained our little non-angels to behave in public (and private for that matter). Seriously, when there is a kid screaming, kicking your chair in a restaurant or playing with things in stores, do you know who the first person who picks up on it is? A parent who is appalled by the behaviour and wishes they could correct it for the seemingly ignorant parent of that child. (Sometimes we even do.) The second set of people who pick up on it are my kids. They get this scared look on their face like, ‘is that kid crazy? They are so dead.’ Are my kids angels? Hell, no. Do they behave in public? Damn straight. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/211 "2012-10-17T15:58:52Z")
> [@perfectparanoia](#): > > Seriously, when there is a kid screaming, kicking your chair in a restaurant or playing with things in stores, do you know who the first person who picks up on it is? A parent who is appalled by the behaviour and wishes they could correct it for the seemingly ignorant parent of that child. (Sometimes we even do.) This, a thousand times this. I notice pretty much 100% of badly behaved kids, just due to dad radar meaning anything even remotely similar to a cry gets my instant undivided attention. And then I hate the bad parents for giving ammunition to people like Cat and curly. > [@](#): > > Are my kids angels? Hell, no. Do they behave in public? Damn straight. This, too. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/212 "2012-10-17T18:16:37Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I’d say you’re an gibbering moron, then, because the staff loves my well-behaved daughter, and it’s only the few curmudgeonly idiots who think any kid in public is automatically ill-behaved who have a problem with her behavior. Hey, I’ve cut _way_ back on my gibbering! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/213 "2012-10-17T20:28:05Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > You should probably actually start contributing to society before you make this particular bitch, you mouth-breathing con artist. I have probably contributed more to society in terms of the people I’ve helped deal with abusive relationships, addictions, and mental illness, than many religious leaders. And I have certainly contributed more than any screaming brat. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Dord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@The\_Dord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Dord)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/214 "2012-10-17T20:42:03Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I have probably contributed more to society in terms of the people I’ve helped deal with abusive relationships, addictions, and mental illness, than many religious leaders. And I have certainly contributed more than any screaming brat. How can you contribute if you can’t shake hands of the people you’re helping? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/215 "2012-10-17T20:53:33Z")
> [@The\_Dord](#): > > How can you contribute if you can’t shake hands of the people you’re helping? Do you actually think it is necessary to touch someone to help them? ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/216 "2012-10-17T20:58:05Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > My 7 year old fits in the cart. Not necessarily the _seat_, true, for the small carts we have at some stores (dollar stores, mostly) which are probably the size of trolleys in the UK. But she likes to ride in the basket part sometimes when she’s feeling froggy. I just hand her a handbasket to put on her lap for the items, and also fill the seat with Stuff. > > American sized shopping carts? Not a problem. Hell, I bet I could fit in there if I tried hard enough and didn’t care what people thought! (No, I couldn’t, not really, but they are plenty big for a fit seven year old!) > > Please, that’s got to stop, for your own sanity. And if you’re willing to sacrifice just two or three shopping carts (please do this with only shelf stable goods), it will stop. Here’s what you do: You go in with a well fed, well rested kid for items that you \*don’t \*absolutely positively need today (the point of this trip isn’t shopping, it’s teaching). Before you even get out of your car to enter the store, the kiddo is thoroughly vetted as to your expectations in positive terms. You don’t tell him what you don’t want (“No running, no grabbing things!”) because that just gives him ideas. You tell him what you \*do \*want: “We’re going to talk in our indoor voices, we’re going to walk, we’re going to only get what’s on our list, and you can choose to get in the cart or keep one hand on the cart at all times.” You get him to repeat the expectations and agree, or you don’t even go into the store, you drive away and try again another time. If he agrees, you do your shopping, saving the perishables for last. If he makes a mistake, he gets one (1) reminder. If he can’t follow your agreement, then you leave. No yelling, no threats, no more reminders, no warnings, no drama, no struggles. You simply move the cart to one side of the aisle, apologize to the stockperson nearest you who is going to have to reshelve everything, explain briefly that your child is incapable of shopping at the moment, and you leave. > > The key is to not get upset. If you get upset, the kid has won. You just…leave. > > When the kid makes it through a trip successfully, he gets to pick a treat from the produce section (if you’re a “mean mom” like me) or even the candy endcap at checkout (if you’re a normal parent.) Bribery? Hell, yes! So is my paycheck bribery to work! We don’t get a treat every time, but only at random surprise times, and never ever if whined at for a treat. > > I’ve nannied and parented a lot of kids. Short of a child with ODD, I’ve never had to do this more than twice before they get it. And it makes future shopping experiences so much more pleasant, for you, for the kid, and even ultimately for the stockperson who had to do some extra work helping you teach your kid appropriate shopping behavior. > > Very tellingly, the same kids who shop well for me are often \*still \*little hellions for their parents. It’s not the kid, it’s the adult. Set your expectations clearly and stick to them, and they will learn very quickly what they can get away with when they’re with you. > > Very much agree. Aldi is simply scaled to child friendly dimensions, in size, sound, lighting and length of aisles. I’ve got an anxiety disorder and difficulty with sensory overload myself, and Aldi is easy. Super WalMarts, or warehouse clubs? Oy. Some days I just can’t do it without feeling like melting down myself. > > The only real trouble we run into at Aldi is those very tempting bumpers on the freezer case which invite climbing/walking on, and require a reminder that this is not a jungle gym and a hand belongs on the cart. > > I like the ones [like this](http://www.goodharvestmarket.com/departments/bulk_foods.html). The chute isn’t coin operated, but it is still a chute, and it’s not really logistically possible to “sample” in the bin itself. Doesn’t prevent the idiocy in the OP, but it does prevent the pretzel snacker from dropping her other half back in the bin. This was brilliant. Thanks for the tips. Usually shopping is fine for us, but if I have to take both 4 year olds with me (plus we will be having a new baby in the Spring) it is usually a little more of a hassle. I like this a lot. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/217 "2012-10-17T22:37:01Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > This was brilliant. Thanks for the tips. Usually shopping is fine for us, but if I have to take both 4 year olds with me (plus we will be having a new baby in the Spring) it is usually a little more of a hassle. I like this a lot. Hope you find it helpful. And now would be the perfect time to practice, since things will only get more complicated in Spring! (Congratulations!) ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/218 "2012-10-17T22:50:03Z")
I haven’t read all of this thread but it looks like it has devolved into the very predictable “we hate kids” vs “I love my kids and you shouldn’t hate them” camps. Well, as a single guy (not married I mean) who often encounters parents with children in movie theaters, airplanes, grocery stores, and wherever else, I just want to THANK you parents for not keeping your children locked up 24/7. I enjoy seeing your kids being kids, in all manners of places public. ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/219 "2012-10-17T23:37:58Z")
Non-parent who likes most kids here. I do notice crying or fussing, usually in a “does the child or parent need help?” vein. I’ve seen behavior as obnoxious from teens or adults as from small children, who at least have the excuse of social inexperience and still-developing neurology. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/220 "2012-10-17T23:40:26Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > I haven’t read all of this thread but it looks like it has devolved into the very predictable “we hate kids” vs “I love my kids and you shouldn’t hate them” camps. More like the “trolls” and “people who feed them” camps. The rest of us know that when curlcoat and ZPG show up to a parenting thread, it’s time to get out of the pool. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881.md?page=12)