# I pit people who don't pay attention to their kids at the grocery store **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2012, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881 "2012-10-06T05:54:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/121 "2012-10-09T21:35:42Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > Right, nice save. Or nice attempt at a save, at least. > > Remember when you insisted that adoptive parents are forcing their kids to call them mom and dad? And you said that adoptive parents make their love conditional upon being called mom and dad? So…according to you, the love of an adoptive parent is by its very nature conditional. And conditional love is the only way to raise good children. So adoptive parents must therefore be better than those unconditionally loving biological parents, and adopted kids must therefore be the best kids out there, right? > > Hmmm, better rethink some part of that strategy. Don’t worry, I’m sure you’ll find a way to wriggle out of that that is satisfactory (to you, at least). You misread my entire arguement if you think I would never refer to adopters as parents. Some adopters have unconditional love for the children they are raising. It’s one of the many unhealthy mental conditions some people who can’t accept infertility develop. ---
**Author:** ![Naive\_Evian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Naive\_Evian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naive_Evian)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/122 "2012-10-09T21:38:10Z")
Maybe this book will help some people: > **[Spanking: A Loving Discipline : Helpful and Practical Answers for Today's...](https://www.amazon.com/Spanking-Discipline-Helpful-Practical-Answers/dp/0764225634)** > > Spanking: A Loving Discipline : Helpful and Practical Answers for Today's Parents \[Lessin, Roy\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. Spanking: A Loving Discipline : Helpful and Practical Answers for Today's Parents Edit - I don’t agree with everything the author has to say, especially about spanking in private. A child who misbehaves in public should be spanked in public to increase the shame. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/123 "2012-10-09T21:41:03Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > You misread my entire arguement if you think I would never refer to adopters as parents. Some adopters have unconditional love for the children they are raising. It’s one of the many unhealthy mental conditions some people who can’t accept infertility develop. Come on, that can’t possibly have been satisfactory, even to you. When did I say you would never refer to adopters as parents? And you have continually said that adopters make their love conditional upon the kids calling the adopters mom and dad. I think that’s a stupid definition of conditional love, but it’s yours, so I would have thought you could make sense of it. Apparently not. ---
**Author:** ![Naive\_Evian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Naive\_Evian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naive_Evian)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/124 "2012-10-09T21:45:47Z")
The author of the suggests not using the hand. I think the is good, but if you want follow his advice, these might help: > **[School Specialty 444398 Birch Clay Paddle Tool, Wood, 12" Size, Brown: Greek...](https://www.amazon.com/School-Specialty-444398-Birch-Paddle/dp/B0044SGZFI)** > > School Specialty 444398 Birch Clay Paddle Tool, Wood, 12" Size, Brown: Greek Paddles: Amazon.com: Tools & Home Improvement > **[Amazon.com : HAIR DOC Large Oval Wood Bristle Brush, 1 EA : Wooden Brush :...](https://www.amazon.com/HAIR-Large-Oval-Bristle-Brush/dp/B0007V6PFQ)** > > Amazon.com : HAIR DOC Large Oval Wood Bristle Brush, 1 EA : Wooden Brush : Beauty & Personal Care > **[Amazon.com: Cat of Nine Tails Whip - Leather Whip : Sports & Outdoors](https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Nine-Tails-Whip-Leather/dp/B000C05Z9Y)** > > Total Length: 26" (Handle Is 8" With 1" Diameter, Fringe Is 18"). This fully functional whip is constructed from genuine leather. Traditional favorites for a wide variety of uses. If you do use a device, be careful. You don’t want to cross into abuse. The hairbrush seems extreme, but it is a top spanking paddle choice on Amazon. Again, I say just use your hand. You probably want to talk to the local DA before using any device. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/125 "2012-10-09T21:48:33Z")
Cat-o-nine-tails? Careful, you’re overplaying your hand. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/126 "2012-10-09T21:51:09Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > Come on, that can’t possibly have been satisfactory, even to you. When did I say you would never refer to adopters as parents? > > And you have continually said that adopters make their love conditional upon the kids calling the adopters mom and dad. I think that’s a stupid definition of conditional love, but it’s yours, so I would have thought you could make sense of it. Apparently not. Adopters make caring for the child and providing what it needs to stay alive at young age conditional upon the kids calling the adopters mom and dad, so I would say the actions of adopters resemble something far more evil than love. My definition of conditional love is simply this: it’s an emotional relationship with some limits that can be nullifed by the actions of the loved individual. The problem with you kiddie worshippers is that you want to use whatever it is you feel for kidlets as an excuse to trample adult lives and adult rights in favor of the completely undeserving. ---
**Author:** ![Naive\_Evian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Naive\_Evian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naive_Evian)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/127 "2012-10-09T21:57:58Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > Cat-o-nine-tails? Careful, you’re overplaying your hand. Those are just the things that came upmwheni searched for spanking devices on Amazon. again, I recommend the hand, not any of those devices. And I left the more extreme things like these: [http://www.amazon.com/PaddleDaddy-Slapper-Leather-Spanking-Paddle/dp/B0066TI452/ref=sr\_1\_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1349819697&sr=8-4&keywords=spanking+paddle](http://www.amazon.com/PaddleDaddy-Slapper-Leather-Spanking-Paddle/dp/B0066TI452/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1349819697&sr=8-4&keywords=spanking+paddle) [http://www.amazon.com/PaddleDaddy-Unbreakable-Spanking-Paddle-Holes/dp/B005TOUUPC/ref=pd\_sim\_sbs\_misc\_4](http://www.amazon.com/PaddleDaddy-Unbreakable-Spanking-Paddle-Holes/dp/B005TOUUPC/ref=pd_sim_sbs_misc_4) Amazon’s spanking devices seem pretty extreme. I don’t know what they think kids are getting up to, but that strap is just crazy. It tear a kid apart. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/128 "2012-10-09T22:23:41Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Does it bother you that so many people have told you that you fail as a parent, but you only feel safe in lashing out at me? Thus far it’s been you, who is a well known child hater, and Naive Evian who clearly has a weird fetish for spanking, and suckling pregnant women’s tits. I don’t know how I will get by knowing you two think I’m a bad parent. ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/129 "2012-10-09T22:28:11Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > “I will always love you. I just don’t like you very much at the moment.” \<----one of Mom’s favorite sayings. 😉 I’m not a parent, but this seems like a quite reasonable attitude. The child can be secure in being valued and cared about, but can’t count on approval or happy-cheerful-friendly unless they conform to the parent’s rules. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/130 "2012-10-09T23:28:18Z")
> [@LeeshaJoy](#): > > Fair enough, but who are these “experts”? Sorry, missed this earlier. I don’t know names since I don’t have any kids to raise these days, but they are (or were) out there. Google “your child as your friend” and see all the reactions to the idea. Granted it was popular several years ago, but the results are still haunting us and there are still plenty of people who think it’s a great way to interact with their kids. There is also [this](http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/03/01/examining-the-hands-off-approach-to-parenting/). Try Googling “alternative child rearing” or something like that. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Thus far it’s been you, who is a well known child hater, and Naive Evian who clearly has a weird fetish for spanking, and suckling pregnant women’s tits. Apparently you didn’t read many of the responses to your first couple of posts, particularly the one from **WhyNot**. Or maybe she was just too polite for you to realize that she doesn’t approve of you allowing your kid to run unfettered in stores. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/131 "2012-10-09T23:35:49Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Sorry, missed this earlier. I don’t know names since I don’t have any kids to raise these days, but they are (or were) out there. Google “your child as your friend” and see all the reactions to the idea. Granted it was popular several years ago, but the results are still haunting us and there are still plenty of people who think it’s a great way to interact with their kids. There is also [this](http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/03/01/examining-the-hands-off-approach-to-parenting/). Try Googling “alternative child rearing” or something like that. That cite doesn’t say anything about your child being your friend, or about unconditional love, or about the proper way to deal with a child misbehaving in a store. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/132 "2012-10-09T23:45:26Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > Yeesh, you need to get your shit together ZPG. Remember, when trolling, consistency is key! Is it trolling if they really believe it? It would be better if the SDMB didn’t treat her posts seriously. Really, after all this time, the only way to treat her, _especially_ on posts about child rearing, is silence. If one can’t handle that, pointing and laughing are a close second. Engagement is useless, pointless, and the worst possible reaction. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/133 "2012-10-09T23:48:09Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > That cite doesn’t say anything about your child being your friend, or about unconditional love, or about the proper way to deal with a child misbehaving in a store. It was about “Hands Off” child rearing with an example of allowing a toddler to make their own choices about whether or not he felt like staying at the table and eating a meal - it certainly isn’t much of a stretch to believe that anyone using that “method” would also allow the child to make their own choices as to how shopping is done. I personally feel that letting your kids make their own choices most/all of the time is the same thing as being their friend rather than their parent. (I wasn’t looking for cites regarding unconditional love or the proper way to deal with a kid; don’t know why you stuck those in there.) ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/134 "2012-10-10T00:27:35Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Does it bother you that so many people have told you that you fail as a parent, but you only feel safe in lashing out at me? > [@curlcoat](#): > > Apparently you didn’t read many of the responses to your first couple of posts, particularly the one from **WhyNot**. Or maybe she was just too polite for you to realize that she doesn’t approve of you allowing your kid to run unfettered in stores. Woah, woah, woah. Hang on there, that’s a complete misrepresentation of my position/opinion on **Cheesesteak** ’s parenting. He does NOT “fail as a parent” in my eyes, not even close. Could he maybe learn a few things from someone who’s already walked this path? Absolutely. So could I. Sometimes I learn a few things from someone who’s \*not \*walked this path, 'cause they come at it with fresh eyes. We’re all learning, as parents and people, all the time. Having room to try to improve, or to try a new technique, is not a sign of a “failure” as a parent. No, I don’t approve of letting kids run unfettered in stores - but that’s a long way from “fail as a parent”. That’s simply a parent who is underestimating what both he and his child are capable of. The very fact that he’s thanked me for my suggestions and indicated a willingness to at least ponder trying some of those techniques tell me that he’s the exact \*opposite \*of a failure as a parent. He’s got an open mind and his kid’s best interest at heart and isn’t running around pretending he knows everything and nothing else could possibly work. So please, feel free to carry on with \*your \*namecalling. This is the Pit, and that’s why we’re here (I guess), but don’t try to portray me as on “your side” of this particular opinion about **Cheesesteak**. I’m not, not by a long shot. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/135 "2012-10-10T00:52:36Z")
You could do what my parents did – threaten to sell your kids to the gypsies. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/136 "2012-10-10T05:08:39Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Bulk bins are a great idea - don’t pay for packaging. But they should have child-proof perspex lids. Or, better yet, have coin-operated chutes. The bulk bins where I shop do have chutes. (not coin op ones though :D). So at least people can’t put their hands all over the stuff before they dispense it into a bag. I can’t believe the dad in the OP. That’s a special kinda stupid, I mean what? Did he think candy was a penny a pound or something? Surely he’d bought candy bars before and must know they’re roughly a buck a piece? So any reasonable person should be able to look at a mass of candy and halfway figure out a ball park cost. Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/137 "2012-10-10T05:13:59Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > It was about “Hands Off” child rearing with an example of allowing a toddler to make their own choices about whether or not he felt like staying at the table and eating a meal - it certainly isn’t much of a stretch to believe that anyone using that “method” would also allow the child to make their own choices as to how shopping is done. Ridiculous. It’s equally not much of a stretch to presume most parents, like most people, have different rules for behavior in the home as opposed to outside it. > [@](#): > > I personally feel that letting your kids make their own choices most/all of the time is the same thing as being their friend rather than their parent. How, pray tell, is a child to learn they can make decisions with good outcomes without practicing? It’s obvious that you’ve never raised a child, and have no interest in actually understanding what that might entail, so how about you shut your trap about shit you know nothing about? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/138 "2012-10-10T05:36:37Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > So please, feel free to carry on with \*your \*namecalling. This is the Pit, and that’s why we’re here (I guess), but don’t try to portray me as on “your side” of this particular opinion about **Cheesesteak**. I’m not, not by a long shot. Uh, OK, not that I remember any namecalling, but whatever. I did say that you disapproved of him allowing his child to run free in stores - not true? The “fail as a parent” part is because **Cheesesteak** seems to think it’s normal or OK to allow his kid to run the visit to the store, instead of him doing so. > [@Zeriel](#): > > Ridiculous. It’s equally not much of a stretch to presume most parents, like most people, have different rules for behavior in the home as opposed to outside it. Did you read the article? I was referring to that. Parents who are into “Hands Off” parenting don’t tend to have different rules, since the whole point is to let the kids explore the world (at home and not) on their own, make their own mistakes and choices, etc. > [@](#): > > How, pray tell, is a child to learn they can make decisions with good outcomes without practicing? It’s obvious that you’ve never raised a child, and have no interest in actually understanding what that might entail, so how about you shut your trap about shit you know nothing about? Raised two kids from almost birth to 10 years of age, so what is “obvious” is that you don’t agree with me on parenting. Tho assuming that someone you don’t agree with must be completely inexperienced and clueless is a common way to attempt to force an opinion here, so bravo to you. As for making decisions without practicing, I would certainly hope that if you have kids yourself, you are not letting them make all the decisions on how they are raised, such as whether or not they eat what is put in front of them, or whether or not they stay with you while you shop, or any of the other things that young children are not equipped to make good decisions on. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/139 "2012-10-10T11:20:46Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Attitudes like that are why so many children are little beasts. Love isn’t really important to raising a responsible human being. Self-discipline is. You are completely ignorant as to the scientific consensus on effective parenting techniques. [Steinberg](http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1130932?uid=3738032&uid=2&uid=4&sid=21101131625723) is a good place to start if you wish to atone for your abysmal ignorance. > [@Naive\_Evian](#): > > Maybe this book will help some people: You’ve abnegated your responsibilities as a human being. > [@Description](#): > > For all Christian parents The moment someone abdicates their critical thinking faculties and contravenes the weight of scientific evidence in order to pursue a fantastic myth, they’ve relegated any claim to humanity. Please peruse scientific journals relating to child rearing and come back with cites. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881/140 "2012-10-10T11:25:15Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > You could do what my parents did – threaten to sell your kids to the gypsies. 😉 If nothing else, **ZPGZ** has revealed that the secondhand-child gypsy market may not be quite as liquid as our parents assumed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-dont-pay-attention-to-their-kids-at-the-grocery-store/636881.md?page=8)