# I pit people who get married. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 11, 2006, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-get-married/352297 "2006-04-11T23:38:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![drmark2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@drmark2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drmark2000)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-get-married/352297/1 "2006-04-11T23:38:04Z")
Is it fair to another person (and to any children who may be produced) to get married when there has been a 50% divorce rate for the past 40 years? Is it right to base a decision that will affect one’s life for the rest of one’s life on the flip of a coin? Is it right to base an industry around one day which the man dreads, and the woman looks forward to because it will probably be the only day in her life when she is the complete center of attention? (Many women have admitted this to me.) Why do we continue to perpetuate this shibboleth of marriage when it is clearly an ineffective and damaging means to bind one man and one woman together in an unnatural monagamous union? Why the hell do we do it? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-get-married/352297/2 "2006-04-11T23:42:16Z")
This is your magnum opus? So don’t get married. What do you care what others do? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-get-married/352297/3 "2006-04-11T23:45:04Z")
Oh yeah, almost forgot. People who use a screen name starting with “dr” are goofballs and aren’t really doctors. (many people with “dr” in their user names have admitted this to me) ---
**Author:** ![drmark2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@drmark2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drmark2000)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-get-married/352297/4 "2006-04-11T23:47:27Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > This is your magnum opus? Nope. This might contribute to it, but this is not The One, which is forthcoming, someday. > [@askeptic](#): > > So don’t get married. What do you care what others do? It matters in so many ways. We _must_ care about what others do. We must challenge them on their notions. Gauntlet laid down! ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-get-married/352297/5 "2006-04-11T23:50:28Z")
> [@drmark2000](#): > > Is it fair to another person (and to any children who may be produced) to get married when there has been a 50% divorce rate for the past 40 years? Cite? And your proof that it was the issue of marriage that solely contributed to their splitting up? > [@](#): > > Is it right to base a decision that will affect one’s life for the rest of one’s life on the flip of a coin? No, it isn’t. I wasn’t aware marriage was decided by the flip of a coin. > [@](#): > > Is it right to base an industry around one day which the man dreads, and the woman looks forward to because it will probably be the only day in her life when she is the complete center of attention? (Many women have admitted this to me.) You’re likely to have a good few men in here saying they looked forward to their marriage day. And a good few women who had nerves. But the marriage industry is not based around that one day - it’s based around the rest of their lives together. > [@](#): > > Why do we continue to perpetuate this shibboleth of marriage when it is clearly an ineffective and damaging means to bind one man and one woman together in an unnatural monagamous union? Social mores. > [@](#): > > Why the hell do we do it? I would imagine it’s because people love each other. Also, since you’ve happily put this in the Pit and not GD, I get to call you an arrogant idiot who vastly overvalues his own thoughts and opinions. Hooray! ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-get-married/352297/6 "2006-04-11T23:50:53Z")
> [@drmark2000](#): > > It matters in so many ways. We _must_ care about what others do. We must challenge them on their notions. Do the voices in your head tell you this? If so, I hear tin-foil helps. ---
**Author:** ![PastAllReason](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f07891/32.png) [@PastAllReason](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastAllReason)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-get-married/352297/7 "2006-04-11T23:51:37Z")
I’d certainly suggest **you** no do it. You may also want to think about the having children thing as well. It’s also not clear to me whether you’re pitting weddings or marriages. They’re not the same thing. Just so you know, not _all_ women are waiting anxiously for the opportunity to lure some poor unwilling man into marriage so that they can have a day at which they are the focus of attention. Perhaps you’ve been hanging out/talking to the wrong women. Rather than pitting men who express sentiments like you’ve just expressed, I pity them. Okay, maybe I roll my eyes, too. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-get-married/352297/8 "2006-04-11T23:55:05Z")
Is it fair to another person (and to any children who may be produced) to set up a household with no legal commitment? Is the separation rate amongst _un_married couples any less? Is it right to assume that every couple goes into a marriage with the same expectation of success? Is it right to base your condemnation of marriage on a tired cliché? Why do you attack this alleged shibboleth by presuming net harm without demonstrating any such thing? Why do you do it? ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-get-married/352297/9 "2006-04-11T23:58:55Z")
I don’t get the correlation between having kids and getting married. Marriage isn’t a requirement to have kids last time I checked. Otherwise, I feel marriage is a sham. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-get-married/352297/10 "2006-04-11T23:59:13Z")
> [@drmark2000](#): > > > [@askeptic](#): > > > > This is your magnum opus? > > Nope. This might contribute to it, but this is not The One, which is forthcoming, someday… Dude, don’t ask my why, but, I got this feeling, that you better get to it, quick! CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-get-married/352297/11 "2006-04-12T00:03:54Z")
> [@drmark2000](#): > > Is it fair to another person (and to any children who may be produced) to get married when there has been a 50% divorce rate for the past 40 years? Contrary to popular belief, the divorce rate has been decreasing steadily since the mid 1970s in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-get-married/352297/12 "2006-04-12T00:20:13Z")
> [@drmark2000](#): > > Is it fair to another person (and to any children who may be produced) to get married when there has been a 50% divorce rate for the past 40 years? For someone who has made repeated efforts to persuade us of his credentials as a [\*basso profundo \*] Clinical Psychologist [/\*basso profundo \*] you have just demonstrated an absurdly easily refuted statistic and, worse, have demostrated an appalling misunderstanding of the basis of that statistic. _(hint: even when the divorce rate was near 50%, it still included a large number of people who married more than twice, so the number of people who married and then divorced was still less than 50%. Heck, Mickey Rooney and Liz Taylor probably account for a couple of points just between them.)_ ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-get-married/352297/13 "2006-04-12T00:23:18Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Contrary to popular belief, the divorce rate has been decreasing steadily since the mid 1970s in the U.S. > [@](#): > > Per capita divorce rates 1990-2002: > 1991, 0.47% > 1992, 0.48% > 1993, 0.46% > 1994, 0.46% > 1995, 0.46% > 1995, 0.43% > 1997, 0.43%, > 1998, 0.42%, > 1999, 0.41%, > 2000, 0.41%, > 2001, 0.40%, > 2002, 0.38% > (Mostly from NCHS {National Center for Health Statistics}, some from Census Bureau’s Statistical Abstract of the U.S., which often differs from NCHS by 0.01%) [RIGHT]{DarkRed}=CMC[/RIGHT] > **[Interesting Divorce Statistics, Facts, and Rate](https://fldivorce.com/blog/interesting-divorce-statistics-facts-and-rate/)** > > Get the latest divorce rates and statistics throughout the United States. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![pinkfreud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pinkfreud/32/17603_2.png) [@pinkfreud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkfreud)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-get-married/352297/14 "2006-04-12T00:24:36Z")
I can’t speak for all married people, but the decision (in 1980) to marry my husband was undoubtedly one of the best choices I’ve ever made. I have every reason to believe that my husband feels the same way. We are both happier, healthier, more productive individuals as a result of our union. If we’d shacked up rather than getting married, I doubt that we’d have weathered the rough spots in the early years. That piece of paper meant something. It still does. I’m sorry that the OP finds my decision to be pitworthy, but I’m not going to lose any sleep over it. This sounds to me like the worst kind of whine: a very bad case of sour grapes. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-get-married/352297/15 "2006-04-12T00:28:09Z")
> [@drmark2000](#): > > Is it right to base an industry around one day which the man dreads, and the woman looks forward to because it will probably be the only day in her life when she is the complete center of attention? (Many women have admitted this to me.) With some bonus misogyny! Not all women are trying to entrap men into marriage and be attention whores. This woman, in particular, is dreading getting married because of the wedding (the marriage part is fine), and her boyfriend can’t wait to be the centre of attention. ---
**Author:** ![drmark2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@drmark2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drmark2000)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-get-married/352297/16 "2006-04-12T00:31:30Z")
> [@Revenant Threshold](#): > > And your proof that it was the issue of marriage that solely contributed to their splitting up? Without marriage, you don’t have divorce. Splitting up, however, is a natural thing. We are rarely monogamous creatures, by nature. When we impose the structure of marriage, we create many more complications that would otherwise be unnecessary. > [@Revenant Threshold](#): > > No, it isn’t. I wasn’t aware marriage was decided by the flip of a coin. 50% divioce rate=flip of a coin. > [@Revenant Threshold](#): > > You’re likely to have a good few men in here saying they looked forward to their marriage day. And a good few women who had nerves. > But the marriage industry is not based around that one day - it’s based around the rest of their lives together. Well, then, let’s let them all come forward! > [@Revenant Threshold](#): > > Social mores. Uh, huh. So it’s “social mores“ that determine the completely unnatural linking of a couple in matrimony? Why don’t social mores endorse our natural instincts, as one might think they would? What the hell has happened to us? > [@Revenant Threshold](#): > > I would imagine it’s because people love each other. Romantic love lasts roughly 2 years, then fades quickly. Why do we contrive to trap people when they are at their most vulnerable? > [@Revenant Threshold](#): > > Also, since you’ve happily put this in the Pit and not GD, I get to call you an arrogant idiot who vastly overvalues his own thoughts and opinions. Hooray! If you’re happy, I’m happy. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-get-married/352297/17 "2006-04-12T00:34:07Z")
Please define ‘natural’ in some way that has any meaning for humans. I’d argue that garbage disposals aren’t ‘natural’, and yet I use mine with impunity. ---
**Author:** ![Anastasaeon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Anastasaeon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anastasaeon)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-get-married/352297/18 "2006-04-12T00:37:51Z")
> [@pinkfreud](#): > > I can’t speak for all married people, but the decision (in 1980) to marry my husband was undoubtedly one of the best choices I’ve ever made. I have every reason to believe that my husband feels the same way. We are both happier, healthier, more productive individuals as a result of our union. If we’d shacked up rather than getting married, I doubt that we’d have weathered the rough spots in the early years. That piece of paper meant something. It still does. > > I’m sorry that the OP finds my decision to be pitworthy, but I’m not going to lose any sleep over it. This sounds to me like the worst kind of whine: a very bad case of sour grapes. Agreed, agreed. My husband and I got married because we feel the same way: we want to stay with one person forever, someone we trust with everything, someone who will help the other out when we need it the most. We both spent time dating people, living in the hectic world of people playing with our emotions, being pointlessly deceptive, pretending to be exclusive when they weren’t. I don’t care if people want to sleep around, just be up front about it so I can find the relationship _I_ want. I want stability and a trusted friend, someone to grow old with, to share common (and sometimes separate) goals with, to learn new things with, someone who respects me and I respect in return, without having to wonder if it’s all an act, or if they’ll be gone tomorrow on a whim. My husband feels the same way, so we got married. I’m sorry you don’t like it, **drmark2000** , but we \*are \* very happy. However, I wish you the same happiness, in whatever form you choose; be it with many or with only one. ---
**Author:** ![Gorgonzola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e480ec/32.png) [@Gorgonzola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgonzola)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-get-married/352297/19 "2006-04-12T00:38:21Z")
I’m married. 16 years. I’ve been at the same workplace 20 years. They’re very similar experiences in a lot of ways. Marriage is a state of mind, like any other commitment. You can shore it up with all sorts of material barriers, just like any other commitment, but in the end it’s in your head. You’re either a stayer, or a leaver. Each takes a different set of skills and a different personality. My innate personality, reinforced by my experiences, gears me to be very good at one thing: endurance. I recognized this early, and built related skills. For instance, I can manage long-term conflict while keeping priorities intact. This has applied at the workplace as well. Have I ever thought of quitting the marriage? Sometimes. I’ve thought of quitting my work as well. Sometimes very seriously and methodically. But I’m a stayer. Is the life of a leaver easier? Definitely not. Each has its own challenges. Could something ever happen to make me leave the marriage? Sure. But I chose to marry another stayer – **Sam Stone** – who also happens to be someone who is very highly unlikely to engage in the few activities that would make it imperative for me to leave, barring catastrophic frontal lobe dissolution on his part. He also happens to be, as far as I am concerned, the best person on Earth, aside from our daughter. And just for the record, we were engaged after knowing each other a whopping six weeks – the state of mind was in place at that time. Is my life richer or poorer for being a stayer? That’s a weird question, really. I can’t be any other way. My life’s pretty damned good, though, for the record. Kids, well, I suppose it’s worth noting that our daughter (who is eight) recently showed me a worksheet she’d been given that listed common fears of kids her age and asked for a ranking in potential terror from one to ten. “What would be the worst one for you?” I asked. She pointed to the one that said “parents breaking up.” Go ahead and pit me, but it won’t change my fundamental self. I’m a stayer. The paper just makes things easier when you fill out official documents, and the ceremony was a great reason to throw a party that a bunch of friends and relatives attended. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-get-married/352297/20 "2006-04-12T00:38:27Z")
> [@drmark2000](#): > > Why the hell do we do it? 20 years this past March. I did it just to piss you off. 😉 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-get-married/352297.md?page=2)