# I pit people who hate metal **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 1, 2011, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944 "2011-06-01T10:46:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/61 "2011-06-01T16:17:31Z")
Yeah, but “Ratko Mladic” is a bitch to rhyme. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/62 "2011-06-01T16:17:53Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > It occurs to me that if you can’t find something in the world to write aggressive, rage-filled lyrics about, and thus have to resort to tired old metal tropes about orcs and shit, you aren’t looking very hard. Exactly this. Punk was just as aggressive and rage-filled, but with its anger directed at realpolitik targets rather than being sublimated into subject matter like demons/the occult or medievalisms or bullshit armageddon scenarios (or, ugh, the wantonness of women). ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/63 "2011-06-01T16:22:59Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > It occurs to me that if you can’t find something in the world to write aggressive, rage-filled lyrics about, and thus have to resort to tired old metal tropes about orcs and shit, you aren’t looking very hard. I’m personally not familiar with any metal song that’s about orcs. If someone could direct me towards one, I’d appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/64 "2011-06-01T16:24:21Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Exactly this. Punk was just as aggressive and rage-filled, but with its anger directed at realpolitik targets rather than being sublimated into subject matter like demons/the occult or medievalisms or bullshit armageddon scenarios (or, ugh, the wantonness of women). I hate to tell you, but the bulk of punk’s subject matter is as shallow and childish as any other genre. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/65 "2011-06-01T16:27:24Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Well, is there any metal that has more melody in its screaming? I have no problem saying it takes talent, but I like melody. I also don’t think the talents are too similar. Look up “Strapping Young Lad”; Devin Townsend is probably my favorite vocalist ever. He does some _amazing_ screaming on stage. I recommend: [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/M-DMYMjEZZ4/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AH-BIAC4AOKAgwIABABGHIgPihDMA8=&rs=AOn4CLB2XAyc6oj0XuURnH1DcXhcrw6YZw "Strapping Young Lad Imperial-Skeksis") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-DMYMjEZZ4) [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/zwuReRw23_0/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AH-AoACoAKKAgwIABABGEYgZShBMA8=&rs=AOn4CLCG27u8dTxGq1nhM5tsNbYZcjtBmw "STRAPPING YOUNG LAD - Almost Again (OFFICIAL VIDEO)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwuReRw23_0) [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/hw903mFTkcE/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AG-AoAC8AGKAgwIABABGH8gGigTMA8=&rs=AOn4CLAe0sxEd1fYiFYMkGcaMRX1vJO6sA "STRAPPING YOUNG LAD - Zen (OFFICIAL VIDEO)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw903mFTkcE) > [@stpauler](#): > > There are some issues I take with the points made in this one. > > 1. Screaming a song is definitely harder work than what is mentioned here. It’s not just about breath control but also about placement of the mouth et al in a way that doesn’t temporarily and permanently wreck the instrument. The singer should have additional training on their voice unless they want a short career. > > 2. There should be no straining when produces those notes. See point 1. > > 3. “Metal is a genre that focuses on creating a specific mood…” ALL genres do that. Music is about mood. Anything from the somber “Adagio for Strings” to the “Beer Barrel Polka” or “Tik Tok”. They all have their moods. Metal ain’t special there. > > That all said, metal just ain’t my cuppa. Have to agree with you here. > [@](#): > > The other thing that concerns me about metal, in all seriousness, is that it seems to have been taken just about as far as it can be taken. Heck, that happened 20 years ago. It’s almost like this musical dead end now, that just kind of wallows in silly lyrics and formulaic music. Metal used to be dangerous. I remember listening to Slayer’s South of Heaven when I was a kid at Boy Scout camp. It was almost frightening. Extremely attractive, but dangerous. And boy, how the parents hated it. I know the metalheads and the punks hated each other back then, and I was a punk, but there was something about the raw aggression of metal that even I found very attractive. > > But as time went on, it just never went anywhere. Galloping rhythm guitar? Check. Aggressive vocals? De rigueur. Blast drumming? Of course. Cheesy lyrics? Yup. I mean, sure, you had the explosion of metal subgenres. There was death metal. Black metal. Industrial metal. Hair metal (not metal at all, but whatever). Doom. Gothic. Power. Speed. Thrash. Yadda yadda yadda. All those just always seemed like everyone was waiting around, seeing if SOMEONE could do something different with it, and make it transcend. > > And really, nobody ever did. It seemed like everybody took some aspect of a Black Sabbath song they liked (“Ooooh, I dig the gallop!”, “The doomy sludge feel of this is great!”) and explored it to the absolute nth degree, but ultimately, there wasn’t any place else to go. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/M-DMYMjEZZ4/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AH-BIAC4AOKAgwIABABGHIgPihDMA8=&rs=AOn4CLB2XAyc6oj0XuURnH1DcXhcrw6YZw "Strapping Young Lad Imperial-Skeksis") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-DMYMjEZZ4) :rolleyes: Look, you’re wrong. There are people who are still taking metal above and beyond. If all you listen to is mainstream stuff like Metallica, BFMV, or the like, then yeah, metal _has_ gotten boring. But look slightly beyond and you see the weirdos doing their weird-ass shit. Dream Theater’s sound has been mutating constantly, Strapping Young Lad sounds nothing like any band I have ever seen anywhere else (beyond other projects by the same frontman), and Symphony X’s “The Odyssey” was bizarre beyond belief. But then again, think of what you’re doing. Criticizing metal for the galloping double bass or the chugging guitar sound is like criticizing jazz for having saxophones, rock for its typical 4-beat rhythms, or modern “party pop” for being _shit_–it’s part of the genre almost by definition. I mean, you _could_ change up the metal formula by a massive degree… But _then it wouldn’t be metal any more_. See also: AC/DC. > [@](#): > > It’ll always have its place as an outlet for those adolescent rage and rebel feelings, but it just feels like a musical backwater now. Sort of like jazz, actually. Which genres aren’t that way? All Dubstep/Trance/Electronica/Pop/80s Rock/Grunge/modern pop rock/etc. sounds the same. _That’s kind of how it works_. > [@](#): > > And now it’s not even remotely dangerous. The parents are punks and metalheads now, and it’s all thoroughly mainstream. Hiiiiiiiipsteeeeeeeerrrrrrrr… ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/66 "2011-06-01T16:27:39Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Father ov Terror! > Abu ol-Hol > enter the pylon > thru’ the galleys ov past > catacombs ov night > into the starry womb > > slay, slay! > Asar un-Nefer > we have no fear > our time had come > our will is done > > dance, dance! > O Mighty One > in the fields ov Aqert > and spit > upon slaves ov death > > War God! > trample all weakness > this is your day ov pride > draw Thy flaming sword > cut the umbilical cord > to set me free from eternal sleep… > > …step by step > evolution; spiral vibration > can you hear? > can you touch? > can you see? > can you really see? > > we charm all jins - > automata, inprinted realities > they creep like snakes > and all we feel > is painful bliss > as we burn forth > like winged globe > like solar disk… > …and penetrate eternity > > Slaves shall serve! > Slaves shall serve! > Slaves shall serve! > Slaves shall serve! > > …Now tell me that that isn’t more meaningful and poetic than some castrato singing about their “baby, baby, baby baby baby ooh”… _Whhhhaaaaaatt a looooooooooooad ov booollllllllllloccccccksss_ (written in my Metal voice obviously) ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/67 "2011-06-01T16:27:44Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > I’m personally not familiar with any metal song that’s about orcs. If someone could direct me towards one, I’d appreciate it. Oh, so we’re going to hyper-nitpick this to death, are we? If it’s not specifically about orcs, and only orcs, then I lose and must concede the point, right? Good thing you know exactly what I’m talking about, without the need for me to clarify, since it’s blatantly obvious (look at the OP) that much of metal’s lyrical content is fantasy-genre based. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/68 "2011-06-01T16:34:08Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Oh, so we’re going to hyper-nitpick this to death, are we? If it’s not specifically about orcs, and only orcs, then I lose and must concede the point, right? > > Good thing you know exactly what I’m talking about, without the need for me to clarify, since it’s blatantly obvious (look at the OP) that much of metal’s lyrical content is fantasy-genre based. 😕 Okay, fine. I was taking you at your word that there were metal songs about orcs. There are certainly many metal bands names that are Tolkien themed. Bolt Thrower is one of my favorite bands, and they’re named after a weapon in Warhammer, though the main theme of their songs is war. I guess I’m just not seeing why song lyrics have to be reality based to be considered serious. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/69 "2011-06-01T16:34:44Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Yeah, but “Ratko Mladic” is a bitch to rhyme. He one bad bitch. (?) ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/70 "2011-06-01T16:34:54Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > I hate to tell you, but the bulk of punk’s subject matter is as shallow and childish as any other genre. Possibly - I don’t have literally every punk song ever recorded, but a good deal of it stood out as being far more intelligent than the classic rock and top 40 of the time. In any case, still miles less stupid than the bulk of metal’s subject matter. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/71 "2011-06-01T16:38:08Z")
[Of Orcs and Elves](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLtT4ZokrEQ) I don’t particularly care if someone wants to listen to metal; I just won’t be joining them. The musical style doesn’t appeal to me. I also take issue with the idea that metal-listeners have a greater tolerance for atonal or non-melodic music. I listen to a lot, and I mean a lot of Laurie Anderson. Some of her stuff is absolutely annoying. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/72 "2011-06-01T16:39:48Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > :rolleyes: > > Look, you’re wrong. There are people who are still taking metal above and beyond. If all you listen to is mainstream stuff like Metallica, BFMV, or the like, then yeah, metal _has_ gotten boring. But look slightly beyond and you see the weirdos doing their weird-ass shit. Dream Theater’s sound has been mutating constantly, Strapping Young Lad sounds nothing like any band I have ever seen anywhere else (beyond other projects by the same frontman), and Symphony X’s “The Odyssey” was bizarre beyond belief. There is no “above and beyond.” Dream Theater has been boring masturbation for decades. Symphony X is stuck in the same fantasy-genre rut that everybody else has been since _forever_. > [@](#): > > But then again, think of what you’re doing. Criticizing metal for the galloping double bass or the chugging guitar sound is like criticizing jazz for having saxophones, rock for its typical 4-beat rhythms, or modern “party pop” for being _shit_–it’s part of the genre almost by definition. I mean, you _could_ change up the metal formula by a massive degree… But _then it wouldn’t be metal any more_. See also: AC/DC. And that’s an unfortunate side-effect of the incredible amount of “genrefication” of modern music. It has to be rigidly defined and circumscribed, or you can’t call it by its accepted name. Rock music once comprised everything from the Sex Pistols to Steely Dan, and it encouraged a certain amount of cross-pollination. > [@](#): > > Which genres aren’t that way? > All Dubstep/Trance/Electronica/Pop/80s Rock/Grunge/modern pop rock/etc. sounds the same. _That’s kind of how it works_. And that’s why it takes real freaks to transcend all these stupid boundaries, and why metal is pretty much treading water. > [@](#): > > Hiiiiiiiipsteeeeeeeerrrrrrrr… Wow. If you ever met me, you’d understand how silly that is. I’m a balding, 40-year-old husband and father who hasn’t worn a band t-shirt, plastic framed glasses, or skinny jeans in decades. But I HAVE, in fact been a working, gigging musician for, oh, 25 years. Yes, I’ve been a metal guitarist. It was boring after about 6 months. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/73 "2011-06-01T16:39:58Z")
Who the fuck is Battlelore? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/74 "2011-06-01T16:41:57Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Who the fuck is Battlelore? Some rubber-stamp metal band, same as most of 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/75 "2011-06-01T16:42:25Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > I’m a metal fan, but Cookie Monster vocals are fucking dumb. I wouldn’t go that far- clearly, they appeal to _someone_- but they don’t do anything for me. > [@Smapti](#): > > I find it helps if you think of the vocals as just another instrument, and try not to make sense of the words as much as follow the rhythm of it. That works for Sepultura or Pantera, but outside groove metal cookie monster singers just aren’t very rhythmic. > [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > Metel doesn’t use Autotune. That alone makes it better then most things on the radio today. +1,000,000 > [@Ogre](#): > > But the fact is that no metal band has ever done anything that Black Sabbath didn’t do first, and better. 😛 Oh, bollocks. Black Sabbath created templates, but has been room for immense variation within them. Anyway, lots of bands which are labeled metal took far more from Led Zep or Deep Purple. And some did do entirely new things; cf., Faith No More. > [@Autolycus](#): > > Da-da dun dun dun, another one bites the dust! Queen aren’t metal. Boo. > [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > I hate to tell you, but the bulk of punk’s subject matter is as shallow and childish as any other genre. By way of example… > [@](#): > > Twenty-twenty-twenty four hours to go I wanna be sedated > Nothin’ to do and no where to go-o-oh I wanna be sedated > Just get me to the airport put me on a plane > Hurry hurry hurry before I go insane > I can’t control my fingers I can’t control my brain > Oh no no no no no > Twenty-twenty-twenty four hours to go… > Just put me in a wheelchair, get me on a plane > Hurry hurry hurry before I go insane > I can’t control my fingers I can’t control my brain > Oh no no no no no > Twenty-twenty-twenty four hours to go I wanna be sedated > Nothin’ to do and no where to go-o-o I wanna be sedated > Just put me in a wheelchair get me to the show > Hurry hurry hurry before I go loco > I can’t control my fingers I can’t control my toes > Oh no no no no no > Twenty-twenty-twenty four hours to go… > Just put me in a wheelchair… > Ba-ba-bamp-ba ba-ba-ba-bamp-ba I wanna be sedated > Ba-ba-bamp-ba ba-ba-ba-bamp-ba I wanna be sedated > Ba-ba-bamp-ba ba-ba-ba-bamp-ba I wanna be sedated > Ba-ba-bamp-ba ba-ba-ba-bamp-ba I wanna be sedated Not that the OP’s quoted lyrics are much better, but at least they sound like they _might_ be deep. I’m hardly a Priest fan, but I’ve always thought Rob Halford was underrated as a lyricist; his are often deceptively clever. Take _Electric Eye_: > [@](#): > > Up here in space > I’m looking down on you. > My lasers trace > Everything you do. > You think you’ve private lives > Think nothing of the kind. > There is no true escape > I’m watching all the time. > > I’m made of metal > My circuits gleam. > I am perpetual > I keep the country clean. > I’m elected electric spy > I protected electric eye. > > Always in focus > You can’t feel my stare. > I zoom into you > You don’t know I’m there. > I take a pride in probing all your secret moves > My tearless retina takes pictures that can prove. > > Electric eye, in the sky > Feel my stare, always there > > There’s nothing you can do about it. > Develop and expose > I feed upon your every thought > And so my power grows. > > Protected. Detective. Electric eye. Okay, so the rhyming’s kind of basic, but the subject matter is fairly mature. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/76 "2011-06-01T16:43:25Z")
For the sake of the team, I listened to all of those Strapping Young Lad songs. Fucking awful. It’s not the musical ability, it’s the style. It’s utter pants. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/77 "2011-06-01T16:44:20Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Some rubber-stamp metal band, same as most of 'em. So…most bands aren’t very good and aren’t worth all that much. A shocking revelation in this Internet Age. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/78 "2011-06-01T16:45:36Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > For the sake of the team, I listened to all of those Strapping Young Lad songs. Fucking awful. It’s not the musical ability, it’s the style. It’s utter pants. The “style?” What does that even mean? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/79 "2011-06-01T16:47:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh, bollocks. Black Sabbath created templates, but has been room for immense variation within them. Anyway, lots of bands which are labeled metal took far more from Led Zep or Deep Purple. And some did do entirely new things; cf., Faith No More. Pffffthahahahahaha. Mike Patton took Ozzy’s sullen nasal whine right off the shelf and used it pretty much as is, and Jim Martin was the absolute prototypical SOUL of a standard gallopy metal guitarist. He’ll admit it himself. I’m paraphrasing, but I once read an interview with him where he said, “I’m a metal dinosaur.” I LOVED FNM. Absolutely loved them, but to say they didn’t pretty much craft the basis of their sound out of Black Sabbath’s music (really very specifically Black Sabbath, in their particular case) is naive. And if you’re talking about Trey Spruance, listen to “King For a Day…”. It’s pretty much 75% chugging downstrokes. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/80 "2011-06-01T16:51:36Z")
I don’t hate metal musics, just the fans… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944.md?page=5)