# I pit people who hate metal **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 1, 2011, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944 "2011-06-01T10:46:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/121 "2011-06-02T04:47:44Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Like I said, Zep basically invented heavy metal (along with some other contemporary groups), although that’s not the only music they played. The genre became more narrowly defined later on. Yeah. While I don’t consider Zep to be metal so much by today’s definition, I certainly remember them being classified in that genre in the 80s. They and Black Sabbath would be what I consider the progenitors of metal (although I find Sabbath to be more influential in shaping what we know heavy metal to be now.) ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/122 "2011-06-02T05:36:24Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Dude, what’s with the “v” in ov? Are you rejecting the suffocating convention of spelling just that one word? Weird spelling like this comes more from the industrial-music side of things. There are influences from chaos magic frames of mind, so the idea behind the fractured spelling is leverage the Principle of Similarity in a way–to deconstruct the consensus forms of language, to become more conscious of the forms and thereby better able to change the structures of power. Alternatively, it’s another form of surrealism. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/123 "2011-06-02T14:50:58Z")
> [@Hunter\_Hawk](#): > > Weird spelling like this comes more from the industrial-music side of things. There are influences from chaos magic frames of mind, so the idea behind the fractured spelling is leverage the Principle of Similarity in a way–to deconstruct the consensus forms of language, to become more conscious of the forms and thereby better able to change the structures of power. Alternatively, it’s another form of surrealism. But it’s just the one word…all the rest are spelled conventionally. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/124 "2011-06-02T16:17:14Z")
> [@Hunter\_Hawk](#): > > Weird spelling like this comes more from the industrial-music side of things. There are influences from chaos magic frames of mind, so the idea behind the fractured spelling is leverage the Principle of Similarity in a way–to deconstruct the consensus forms of language, to become more conscious of the forms and thereby better able to change the structures of power. Alternatively, it’s another form of surrealism. Snerk. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/125 "2011-06-02T16:42:29Z")
I shoot concert videos, and have done a large number of School of Rock shows. Last week I shot [a tribute to the Blues at Buddy Guy’s](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDmxsd_Js-g) and [a tribute to Nirvana at Schuba’s](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_49nhhQvDkI). For those of you who are unfamiliar with the program, the School of Rock, which has franchises all over the US, is an after-school music program for kids age 7 to 17. It gets them on stage in real venues playing rock in front of paying audiences. No matter what their level of talent, everybody plays - so the beginners will wind up on an easy song strumming a guitar. But the kids who stick with the program and have genuine talent play harder music and [compete with the kids from other schools and tour nationally](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mgtebb0FcL8). I have several more shows to shoot, including a show for the beginners. Every season, they always have one program of especially easy to play music so the seven year olds can get on stage. That music is usually metal. The standard School of Rock beginner show is [Black Sabbath](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up44BedYOU8). This season’s beginner’s show is Iron Maiden and Judas Priest. Yes, some metal is difficult to play and there are some brilliant players in the genre. But, in general, metal is more about attitude than musicianship. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/126 "2011-06-02T16:59:51Z")
It’s pretty un-metal to hate people for not liking metal, not to sound so “metaller than thou”. If everyone listened to metal than it would cease to be metal anyways, unless you’re talking about power metal stuff that isn’t at all about rebellion anyway (which I would argue is only vaguely metal anyways, but that’s just my opinion). There is no “extreme” anymore because there is the internet, but that also means that everyone can listen to what they enjoy. Dubstep sounds stupid to me, but other people like it and it doesn’t impede my ability to listen to Mayhem, Gotherfall, The Agony Scene, Black Dahlia Murder and Kekal, so good for them. Both the OP and some of the metal hating posts are fairly awful, I give the thread 2/10. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/127 "2011-06-02T17:53:06Z")
I am sympathetic to the OP’s situation, as I too am a huge metal fan, but I don’t really feel like he did a good job with all of the points. I want to add to some of them. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > First of all, lemme get this straight. This isn’t directed only at Naxos, nor is it directed at people who simply don’t like metal as a genre-disliking metal is a perfectly legitimate stance, like disliking anime or disliking pop music (i.e. you’re kind of being stupid because saying “I don’t like metal/pop/anime” entails the dislike of so many different things that the claim is kind of hard to make; you may hate modern pop like Justin Bieber, but I bet I’d find a soft spot for some of Michael Jackson’s repertoire). No, this is directed at people who _do not think metal is music_. Why rant at them? Because they are wrong and stupid. Honestly, this is not only the most important point but it’s really the only point. Metal is a legitimate musical genre, and if one doesn’t like it, that’s fine, but classifying the entire genre as crap is simply ignorant. As mentioned in the OP, it’s an extremely diverse genre and includes some very accessible stuff and some very inaccessible stuff. That said, one of the issues with metal is that it is one of those genres that does attract a lot of bad acts. It has an enormous underground scene, and a lot of people, particularly kids, will generate a lot of garbage. However, as Steve Wilson once said, in any musical genre 99% may be crap, but 1% is essential. Do not let the terrible acts in it be a reason to hate the whole genre, otherwise you’re just ignorantly generalizing in the same way that those people who think all Muslims are terrorists do. > [@](#): > > To go back to Slaves Shall Serve, I hope I don’t have to spell out the melodic and harmonic elements. They’re slightly mitigated, but they’re still very much present, underlaying the song’s raw core with a creepy, frightening melody. I think a better example might be a band like Meshuggah. In a lot of their music, rhythm is the primary focus and, in fact, often the melody is there primarily to make it easier to conceptualize the rhythm, but even then, there is melody, otherwise it’d be pure cacophony or just rhythm. However, to say that focusing primarily on rhythm somehow makes it illegitimate as a form of music would also affect other genres, particularly rap, R&B, and several sub-genres of electronic music. > [@](#): > > Try to bring out that roar Nergal (the singer)'s voice. Even if you _can_ pull it off for a short time without it sounding forced/emotionless, try doing it for the whole song. Now imagine singing like that for a 2-hour-long double set, and you see what the problem here is. As you point out, it can be difficult to do for extended periods of time, but that’s only part of it. In fact, since so many people will say that it hurts their throats to do it, when doing it correctly causes zero pain should also be proof that it requires skill. However, the more relevant part, I think, is that there are several different types of harsh vocals and they convey different things. A very talented vocalist can hit several different types, in varying pitches to help convey different emotions. The vocalist from Behemoth, generally doesn’t do that, as their music doesn’t tend to focus on lots of emotional changes in their music. Instead, I would suggest looking at a genre like Doom metal to see some very talented vocalists really making excellent use of various styles of growling and even clean singing. From there, I’d particularly suggest Novembers Doom, My Dying Bride, and Swallow the Sun as excellent examples of that sort of range. Listening to several different songs will, in fact, demonstrate just how dynamic that style of vocals can be and, when intermixed with the clean vocals, how it can emphasize important aspects that the band is trying to focus on. > [@](#): > > …Now tell me that that isn’t more meaningful and poetic than some castrato singing about their “baby, baby, baby baby baby ooh”… Though I like Behemoth, with their heavy focus on obscure religions and such, I don’t think their lyrics are a good example. Instead, I’d suggest looking at bands where the lyrics are a really big part of it. I’m particularly fond of the lyrics of bands like Opeth, who focus a lot on relationships, nature, and such, Nevermore, who focus a lot on religious, political, and social issues, and Anathema, who write about everyday issues as concept albums, their most recent one a fantastic exploration of the experience surrounding being and falling in love. > [@](#): > > I don’t really think I need to go too far in to this. “Inferno” is the drummer in that video clip, and there are probably less than 100 drummers in the world who can play that song at that speed. But if that didn’t convince you… > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTzzc1dXGsU](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTzzc1dXGsU) > Same drummer. Live show. There’s a fantastic clip of the drummer from Meshuggah playing Bleed live; as the poly-rhythms in that song are utterly mind-boggling, I think it’s another good example. And also, for guitarists, look up Jeff Loomis, Michael Romeo, Yngwie Malmsteen, John Petrucci, and you will witness with your own eyes some of the most technically challenging guitar playing in any genre. As a keyboardist myself, I can also say that the one from Children of Bodom (whose name escapes me at the moment), Michael Pinella, Jordan Rudess are excellent examples of enormously talented there too. Bottom line, anyone who says it takes no talent is absolutely speaking from ignorance. > [@](#): > > Doesn’t really apply here… Actually, I think song length and lacking vocals is a big point for people not liking metal. As a funny anecdote, I was listening to Opeth on my MP3 player at the gym once and it just so happened that one of their songs started seconds before whatever was playing in the gym (they would show the accompanying video on a TV). Before the song had even reached the first verse, the entire video for the song that had already ended. I found it hilarious. Similarly, at other times when people have been around when I’m listening to it, they’ll comment something along the lines of “So… where are the vocals?” or “Wow, this is a long song.” Anyway, the thing is that, at least relative to pop music, metal tends to take on more complex themes both musically and lyrically and, as a result, it will tend to come up with longer songs, otherwise the ideas aren’t fully explored. As a result, 8-10 minute songs are fairly common, I have dozens of songs that are over 20 minutes, and even a handful in which a single song is the entire album, being 45-60 minutes long. I think for a lot of people, the attention span, particularly the depth of attention it takes to really process music like that, just isn’t there. Thus, it comes across as meandering, incohesive, and pretentious. That said, there are plenty of long songs that probably are easily accessible. Symphony X’s The Odyssey is an excellent example at 24 minutes long (and I just saw them perform it live a week ago… EPIC). They tell the entire story over the length of the song, with a more first person perspective from Odysseus, and that story simply can’t be told in a radio-friendly 4-minute song. > [@](#): > > That song… When I first heard it, I felt locked up. I was literally marching in lockstep to the beat, and for one of the few times in my life, I thought I felt a higher power over me… One named “Nergal”. This song, like a few others this band has produced, has a truly profound effect on my emotions when I hear it. It’s just amazingly powerful. > > And after all, isn’t that what music is all about? Using rhythm, melody, and words to create a powerful imagery, or at least some emotions? When I listen to a song like Slaves Shall Serve or Daimonos (also from Behemoth) I can see it immediately; the court of some profane, ancient god, the hedonistic lustfulness all around, the slaves bowing on their knees before their masters… It is incredibly powerful. > > Now does this mean that _all_ metal is good? Or even that I like all metal? No. In a genre that can go from [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK3B5qFst3g) to [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oey85FGHOHc) to [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYn47sYt6vM), there’s an _incredible_ amount of variety, some good (the aforementioned 3), some bad (Deathcore… blech), but either way, there’s something for everyone. A lot of metal is very dark, but it’s a big part of the genre. But dark forms of art are huge in other genres of art. Look at literature, like Edgar Allen Poe, look at fine arts, like a lot of William Blake’s work. Hell, dark films these days seem to be very much in vogue, like The Dark Knight, or all the Hannibal movies, or whatever else. It seems odd to me that, somehow, music that explores the sames sorts of topics as those is somehow looked down upon. But beyond that, it’s far from all of metal. While it very well may be the largest chunk of it, there’s plenty of very uplifting stuff in Power and Progressive Metal with varying topics including mythology, fantasy, relationships, and everyday experiences. Folk Metal typically explores local mythology, cultures, and nature. Even a huge chunk of melodic death metal focuses on more on intellectual concepts, relationships, and that sort of thing. In short, the idea that metal is ONLY about dark things is simply an argument from ignorance. > [@](#): > > So you know what? I take it back. I _do_ pit people who hate metal, because it’s like hating video games, or hating books. You’re going to find _something_ in the genre you like, because it’s so damn huge. And those who think metal is not music… Well, you my friends may burn in [hell](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY5WEJ-tiC8) for as long as you see fit to continue that opinion. Again, as Steve Wilson said, 1% is essential. I can completely understand not liking a lot of it, just as I can understand how people don’t like any genre, but thinking the genre is devoid of value or talent is willful ignorance. > [@friedo](#): > > I’m a metal fan, but Cookie Monster vocals are fucking dumb. Frankly, I used to think the same way, and I refused to listen to any metal that used harsh vocals. However, I saw Opeth live for the first time when they were supporting another band I liked about 11 or 12 years ago. Not only is Mikael Akerfeldt talented both at growling and clean singing, but he’s extremely emotive when he sings, and equally with his guitar playing. As I saw them perform, how he would use clean vocals a lot, but use the growls to emphasize points that clean singing just can’t really hit right… I finally got it. I realized that it really isn’t any different than saying distorted guitar is dumb. Acoustic or clean electric are very diverse, but there is something that distorted guitar adds, and it only adds range to what one can explore with those instruments. Harsh vocals are very much the same way, and well done, they very much invoke that deep, visceral, emotional response. Those times in life when we just feel the urge to scream or grunt, whether it’s from a broken heart, a betrayal, anger, an empassioned argument, or something as simple as our immediate reaction to a stubbed toe. If we react with a scream in everyday life, isn’t a scream in music exploring those topics equally appropriate? After I “got” that, other forms of metal that use harsh vocals almost exclusively, rather than for emphasis, started to make more sense too. Realizing that it’s a tool in the audial art, it’s not really that much different from using rough brush strokes and dark colors in a painting, dark imagery in a novel, or whatever. And that’s where it leads into a band like Behemoth, where they’re creating a very distinct atmosphere. One may or may not like that atmosphere, but I think it’s undeniable that that atmosphere is impossible to create with clean vocals or, in fact, with even a different style of harsh vocals. Anyway, I wouldn’t pit people who hate metal, simply people who hate it for ignroant reasons. But then, that’s no different than any number of other topics that people make broad generalizations about based on limited and often incorrect knowledge. The only difference with this one is that it is one that personally affects me, whereas a number of other similar generalizations have less of a direct impact on me. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/128 "2011-06-02T21:52:31Z")
I only know in my world I hate the light I speed at night! \m/ \>\_\< \m/ ---
**Author:** ![Tarwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@Tarwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarwater)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/129 "2011-06-02T22:31:55Z")
Metal is the nerdiest music. It’s like the LARPing of the music world. I would not be surprised if there was significant cross-over between the two populations. Now that I think about it, just anecdotally, half of the metal fans with whom I’m familiar have also had some kind of roleplaying background. It’s not surprising, when you look at the lyrics. And the bands themselves. And most of the metal culture, essentially. All of that face paint. Just gallons of it. They’re like the biggest market for grease paint and fake blood. They’re the patron saints, I think, of Halloween specialty shops, who without their business would be, like, ninety percent less profitable. It’s essentially roleplay. Not so embarassing when the participants are young kids, but when they’re in their twenties and thirties, it becomes increasingly cringe-worthy. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/130 "2011-06-02T22:40:52Z")
You’re joking, right? ---
**Author:** ![Tarwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@Tarwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarwater)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/131 "2011-06-02T22:41:52Z")
No, I’m generalizing. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/132 "2011-06-02T22:59:44Z")
ICP isn’t metal, anyway. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/133 "2011-06-02T23:15:10Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > That music is usually metal. The standard School of Rock beginner show is [Black Sabbath](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up44BedYOU8). This season’s beginner’s show is Iron Maiden and Judas Priest. I have to ask: which Maiden song(s) ? Because if I were to think of metal bands that are easy to cover, Maiden wouldn’t be the first that springs to mind. The singing alone is pretty darn tough, at least in the Bruce Dickinson era. ---
**Author:** ![Suil\_Dubh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85f322/32.png) [@Suil\_Dubh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suil_Dubh)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/134 "2011-06-02T23:21:25Z")
Ha ha, I was into roleplaying before I got into metal. I got into metal because of the sound of the music though, not so much the “sword ‘n’ sorcery” lyrics. Come to think of it, most of the metal I listen too isn’t really based in fantasy. There’s a lot of Satanism (which I’m not into either), but not much fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/135 "2011-06-03T00:38:50Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I have to ask: which Maiden song(s) ? Because if I were to think of metal bands that are easy to cover, Maiden wouldn’t be the first that springs to mind. The singing alone is pretty darn tough, at least in the Bruce Dickinson era. It hasn’t happened yet - I’ll know when I get the program. They will be doing two shows at Reggie’s Rock Club in Chicago at 2 PM Saturday and Sunday. The Kansas City School did a Metallica show last season. I have videos for _[Disposable Heroes](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_l2rbzLEU8)_ and _[One](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R1_mybto8Q)_, and a “Hair Metal” show before that. My favorite Metal performance from the kids was this one of Jakyl’s _[I Stand Alone](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5UTCgtpar8)_. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/136 "2011-06-03T01:08:41Z")
Sometimes the theatrical can still be good, though: Alice Cooper. “Ov” makes me think of LOLcats. ---
**Author:** ![Shin\_Ji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Shin\_Ji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shin_Ji)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/137 "2011-06-03T03:17:21Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Metal makes my ears hurt. Only when it’s done right. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/138 "2011-06-03T03:26:45Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I have to ask: which Maiden song(s) ? Because if I were to think of metal bands that are easy to cover, Maiden wouldn’t be the first that springs to mind. The singing alone is pretty darn tough, at least in the Bruce Dickinson era. I suspect for that reason alone (and because it’s in Guitar Hero) one of the songs will be Wrathchild. It doesn’t have the confusing tempo changes that usually characterize Maiden songs, and Paul Dianno didn’t hit any notes that the average singer couldn’t (or hold them for 30 seconds). Speaking of which, I just watched Flight 666, and if there’s a band in any genre whose music can generate a wider range of emotions than Maiden, I’ve never heard them. ---
**Author:** ![Shin\_Ji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Shin\_Ji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shin_Ji)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/139 "2011-06-03T03:31:22Z")
> [@Miltonyz](#): > > I used to work with an Albanian fellow who absolutely loved Manowar. > > [Manowar - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manowar) > > I once made the mistake of telling him we used to get pumped up to Heart of Steel in HS football. After that he was always bringing me Manowar Cd’s and songs. They sure had a fascination with war. One song would be about killing your enemy and then banging his women, the next would be a totally different song about banging your enemy’s woman and then killing him. 😃 > > Manowar > [Heart of Steel](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU6HJcd0Ljg) I just wanted to say that Heart of Steel is quite possibly the most beautiful song ever written. I sang my child to sleep with it. Manowar are an extremely cheesy band - they define cheese, really - but there are some gems in their catalog. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944/140 "2011-06-03T03:44:41Z")
For some reason I notice a lot of the metal detractors seem to think all metal is about fantasy Orcs and stuff. Some metal is about swords and dragons and stuff, but I would say less than half. It’s like you guys think the only metal is melodic power metal. Check out this song, [Throwdown-Forever](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfdV6nYI-Rg), it’s about staying true to yourself and your friends, no dragons involved. You may not like metal, but saying it’s all about nerdy LARPing is as painfully ignorant as saying “I don’t like country or western, it’s all about beating your wife and driving your pickup”, or all rap is about shooting people. It might make you feel superior for your tastes, but it doesn’t reflect reality well. And just because, this is my favorite song of all time, and has been for about 7 years now and I don’t expect it to change: [The Agony Scene-The Darkest Red](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV0OI4qyDVE) > [@Tarwater](#): > > Metal is the nerdiest music. It’s like the LARPing of the music world. I would not be surprised if there was significant cross-over between the two populations. Now that I think about it, just anecdotally, half of the metal fans with whom I’m familiar have also had some kind of roleplaying background. It’s not surprising, when you look at the lyrics. And the bands themselves. And most of the metal culture, essentially. All of that face paint. Just gallons of it. They’re like the biggest market for grease paint and fake blood. They’re the patron saints, I think, of Halloween specialty shops, who without their business would be, like, ninety percent less profitable. It’s essentially roleplay. Not so embarassing when the participants are young kids, but when they’re in their twenties and thirties, it becomes increasingly cringe-worthy. It’s not the 80’s anymore, liking something doesn’t make you a nerd. Thinking that way DOES make you old, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-hate-metal/583944.md?page=8)