# I Pit people who misrepresent Christianity as polytheistic **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 17, 2009, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-misrepresent-christianity-as-polytheistic/521594 "2009-12-17T04:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-misrepresent-christianity-as-polytheistic/521594/261 "2009-12-28T00:19:45Z")
> [@True Blue Jack](#): > > Wow, this site has everything! Even large section titles in a bright red! And a big, scary cutaway view of the earth. I’m convinced, so I’m converting right now. Good for you. I picked one that wasn’t as bad as some others. The point being they played the fear of the devil and the horrors of hell to scare people into looking to the church. Now that it seems silly, they want to pretend the devil is not such a big deal after all. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-misrepresent-christianity-as-polytheistic/521594/262 "2009-12-28T13:04:29Z")
Tubeworms. All the heathens are going to be turned into giant tubeworms. That’s hell, for you. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-misrepresent-christianity-as-polytheistic/521594/263 "2009-12-28T15:47:56Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > And what kind of creature would the devil be? You are doing as Christians always do. You are trying to define him away after using the devil for about 2 thousand years. The devil will infiltrate your thoughts and can affect everybody in the world. Yet he is not a god? He has invisible minions who are doing his work. Why are they not gods? You have no trouble using the fear of the devil and his horrible hell to scare people into looking to the church for salvation. Now he is not such a big deal. BS. You were the one who allowed for the possibility of demigods. As long as there are supernatural entities that are not gods, there’s no reason to assume any other would qualify as a god. And ever since Satan was identified with Lucifer, Christianity has pretty much taken the belief that Satan is a fallen angel. And other than God and Satan, angels are the only other beings I could think of in the Christian pantheon, and thus what you would think of as demigods. Demons would work, too, but many believe they are just similarly fallen angels. So now, we have Satan as an demigod. Obviously a demigod would be more powerful than a mere human. Thus it would make sense for those who do not have an almighty God to back them to be scared of him as a malevolent entity. It’s like having Daddy with you as a kid so you don’t have to worry about the big bully who comes up to you. As for Satan’s ability to have minions: the official stance is that they are also fallen angels. Satan is just their leader. We have human leaders all the time, and we don’t assume they are gods of some sort. (Well, there’s the idiot right that think that we lefties think President Obama is our Messiah. :rolleyes:) Look. I’m not here to proselytize. You acted like you wanted the Christian side of these arguments. Since it’s something I know something about, I thought I’d try to present them to you. I took it that you were ignorant of what they were, and so I thought I’d try and fight that ignorance. You don’t have to accept any of this as true at all. But, to the best of my knowledge, it is the official belief. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-misrepresent-christianity-as-polytheistic/521594/264 "2009-12-28T15:51:30Z")
This is not about good or bad. Catholics just think their religion is monotheistic. It is not. It is no big deal. A little dose of reality, that changes nothing. Like when the Church fought the heliocentric model of the universe . Physically nothing changed, yet mentally it was a whole new ballgame. Why would it be bad to face the fact your religion has lots of gods and demigods in their scriptures and teachings? ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-misrepresent-christianity-as-polytheistic/521594/265 "2009-12-28T16:29:00Z")
Off topic: It’s so funny how much I time I devote to reading into the particulars of non-sense. I guess it’s not unlike trying to understand all the nuances in any “meaningful” work of fiction. It’s just like it in fact. People trying to make the work out to where it’s most believable, (or effective), to them – even if they know it’s fantasy. There’s a part of me that knows I’m human, and thus, have that in common with the only species of higher inelegance that I know. I know that; If I were of a different gender, or race, or hair color, or if I was from a different time, with a different level of influence, pain, or growth, or intelligence… that I would be subject to being a entirely different person. I would still be ‘being human’. It’s being human that leads us to be who we are today. I get angry, and sometimes mock other humans. But I still don’t know if I CAN blame people for who they are, as much as I would want to. The general idea is if they’re 18, they all of a sudden have complete control of who they are. I don’t know if I agree with this after a lot of thinking about this kind of thing. It’s hard for me to hate Fred Phelps because I couldn’t imagine what lead him to have so much hate himself. If this “God” did exist, I would feel so much better knowing I had something to possibly hate. Seriously, who needs a Satan when you have a God like this? He can run Hell and Heaven at the same time, he’s said to capable of pretty much anything. Certainly could give a shit about Earth, ignoring his wondrous creation for so long. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-misrepresent-christianity-as-polytheistic/521594/266 "2009-12-29T01:28:40Z")
The point is that monotheism is thought of as more advanced than the polytheistic religions of the past. I do not know if it is true. But Christianity is not a monotheistic religion. It may be no big deal. It is what it is. No misrepresentation is necessary. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-misrepresent-christianity-as-polytheistic/521594/267 "2009-12-29T05:33:31Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > This is not about good or bad. Catholics just think their religion is monotheistic. It is not. It is no big deal. A little dose of reality, that changes nothing. Like when the Church fought the heliocentric model of the universe . Physically nothing changed, yet mentally it was a whole new ballgame. Why would it be bad to face the fact your religion has lots of gods and demigods in their scriptures and teachings? Catholicism does not like to change its Traditions. New knowledge that comes from the outside is okay, unless it concerns their own religion, in which, of course, they consider themselves experts. There would be a big uproar if something that has been assumed since its inception were to be completely overhauled. Centuries of Catholic thought would have to be rewritten. Every Pope has espoused the Trinity, so it would make their proclamations wrong, which is blasphemy under the doctrine of papal infallibility. It would be far easier for some fairly new Protestant faith to denounce the Trinity. And, in fact, some have, like the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Latter Day Saints. Oneness churches have, too, though in the other direction of removing all other beings from the pantheon. I’m not sure about Seventh Day Adventism, but my roommate in college who started his own sect\* had SDA as his roots. He believed Jesus was just the perfect man, whom God (as a spirit being) decided to completely inhabit. But he also believed that even ordinary humans could do magic, but that God would punish you for it. \*I wouldn’t call it a cult, because there was no element of the leader thinking he was any better than anyone else. He just honestly thought that most Christians weren’t actually practicing what the Bible actually said they should. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-misrepresent-christianity-as-polytheistic/521594/268 "2009-12-29T14:23:37Z")
No one can honestly say they know anything about a God, all is from human sources,what ever was written in the past, or now, is the word or thought of some other human. It is said God is unknowable, so if that means one being or thousands it is still a human thought. People tend to use what they desire and what seems to be a help to what ever purpose for which they wish to use it. ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-misrepresent-christianity-as-polytheistic/521594/269 "2009-12-29T18:13:27Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I don’t get this dalliance into Satan\* having the ability to beat God. Where do you get this information? The only book that deals with the “final battle” is Revelation, which is presented as Jesus telling John what’s going to happen in the future. And, in it, God wins, even after giving Satan quite a few chances. > > But, if you want to get into how Satan fits, you need to take a look at Job, where you can clearly see that Satan is subservient to God. He has to ask God for permission to do anything. **He is presented almost the same as an angel** , which I assume are the “demigods” you referred to. (My emphasis added.) Nah, in the Book of Job, he isn’t presented almost, he simply is an angel. He has an adversarial role toward us people, or at least a very small number of us. But he never becomes a practical incarnation of evil, or even diametrically opposed to **Numero Uno** , Tanakh version. He tests people, not because he is full of hate and wants to drag people down, while being limited by divine hand. Rather that is simply his job, (Pun unintentional) and he would be insubordinate if he turned down such assignments. I hate to break it to you, but the Torah and other Tanakh books do not belong to you, but to the Jews. The Greek Testament takes a completely different route about Satan, but also about the signs of the Messiah, and whether or not an ETERNAL law can be sacrificed away. ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-misrepresent-christianity-as-polytheistic/521594/270 "2009-12-29T18:46:14Z")
Sorry, I had gotten cut off from a terminal with a half hour limit. I hope my tone wasn’t overly harsh, because you did say you were here to explain, and not proselytize. Also, I wrote in haste at the end. Christianity for the most part says that you can take the Law, which was repeatedly said (in the “O.T.”) to be good, nail it to a cross (in Jesus’ sacrifice) and beyond that, say that it was bad, rather than good. That it was only useful as a sort of schoolteacher that shows we can’t be good, but need to have someone else be perfect for us, and impute righteousness despite us. Nowhere in the Tanakh is there a sacrifice of the innocent to take away the sins of another. (I mean, if you leave off deliberate mistranslations of it, plus very creative handling of “quotes” in the Greek Testament.) Maybe \*\*others receiving bad stuff as the result of someone else’s sin \*\*(which unfortunately seems to me \* clearly present a few times) but never the expiation of guilt for the transgressor, or transgressors. * * * - But then, I’ve never studied the difference in accepted Jewish documents versus the versions Christians depend on, nor have I had the opportunity to ask Judaism’s scholars to explain what the disturbing passages mean to them. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-misrepresent-christianity-as-polytheistic/521594/271 "2009-12-29T19:55:14Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > [L. Frank Baum’s, 1902, _The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Life_and_Adventures_of_Santa_Claus). > … Check out the [Santa Claus Family Tree](http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/santas-family-tree/). ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-misrepresent-christianity-as-polytheistic/521594/272 "2009-12-31T19:15:16Z")
> [@Batfish](#): > > “Earth’s Center Hotter Than Sun’s Surface, Scientists Say”. The article stated that scientists have recently discovered, “THE EARTH’S INNER CORE HAS A TEMPERATURE OF OVER 12,000 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT!” > > Funny, when science is handy to their point it’s okay. But not that global warming and evolution malarkey! Yeah, it’s hot, all right, but they fail to mention that there would be no free oxygen, and thus no fire . I like the quote from the great _cough_ scientist \*Henry Morris \*about there being plenty of room for everyone in hell. It’s quite a reassuring statement. One of the other site pages there is even a “Yes Virginia” response letter assuring us that there is a hell. It’s amazing how the letter connects the eternal torment of the damned with the joy from having Jesus. For a moment, I wondered if the whole site was a parody because of the letter. > [@gonzomax](#): > > Good for you. I picked one that wasn’t as bad as some others. The point being they played the fear of the devil and the horrors of hell to scare people into looking to the church. Now that it seems silly, they want to pretend the devil is not such a big deal after all. Less bad than some others? Now that you mention it, it seems that a couple of years ago I came across a site that went “gonzo” making up stuff to add to the horrors of hell. The first innovation was that your eyelids were cut off by demons as soon as you entered. Just in case people think they could minimize the horrors by keeping their eyes closed, I guess. There also was quite a bit of disgusting stuff about one constantly recycling bodily secretions. I guess we are all supposed to be “grossed out” into converting. Does this description match any of the other sites you had to choose from? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-misrepresent-christianity-as-polytheistic/521594/273 "2009-12-31T20:21:09Z")
No, but the whole point is to scare kids straight into the protective arms of mother church. If they convince you they can save you from that, how can you leave? The church had an understanding of how to use psychology long before it was codified into a science. They scare you, they protect you, they awe you and they bullshit you into becoming a supporter. ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2009, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-misrepresent-christianity-as-polytheistic/521594/274 "2009-12-31T21:12:09Z")
I am probably wasting my keystrokes here, but I wanted to chime in on a couple of points. First, Catholocism, to the outside observer (and to many within the church), very closely resembles a polytheistic religion, particularly in light of the veneration of Mary. I feel it is important, for clarity of discussion, to separate Catholicism from mainstream Protestantism. Secondly, it was Paul that first attempted to describe, for the sake of the Hebrews (hence, the name of the book), how Christ could be accepted as deity. To the Western mind, many of Paul’s arguments make little sense; however, to orthodox Jews during Paul’s time, they were perfectly in order. Under Judaism, a son, once he reached the age of majority (30 years old), became equivalent to his father in all legal matters under Rabbinical law. This is the basis of Paul’s primary argument to the Hebrews. Jesus was not one and the same as the Father in physical state, but in a legal sense; and as the son, he would have the Father’s authority, and understand and act on the Father’s will and in the Father’s best interests. Paul’s explanation of the Holy Spirit is similar: the Holy Spirit is a representative of the Father, much like an emissary or ambassador, and possessing the authority of the Father to act on his behalf. Again, equal in legal matters, understanding of the Father’s will, but not the same as the Father. I believe it was one of the preachers during the Great Awakening here in the States (Sturgeon?) who explained it like a person looking in a mirror, which was then reflected in another mirror. Neither of the two reflections is the same as the original, yet each shows a different aspect of the original; the same, yet different. ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-misrepresent-christianity-as-polytheistic/521594/275 "2009-12-31T21:18:04Z")
Concerning statements that, “…the Devil must be a god, too, if he is equal…”; it is pretty plainly evident from scripture that the devil is not equal…not even close. He is very easily dealt with in Revelation, and there is no evidence that it is even difficult at all to do when the time comes. Yes, there is a battle, but it is one of futility on the part of the devil and his forces, and the outcome is a foregone conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-misrepresent-christianity-as-polytheistic/521594/276 "2009-12-31T21:22:14Z")
One last thing… most of the arguments I’ve seen that come from atheists, non-believers, etc., which make the claim that Christianity is a polytheistic religion, have the hint of, “Because of this trinity/polytheism, it is no different than Roman or Greek or Norse mythology, which we know were false, and thus, Christianity too must be false.” There is also a hint of intellectual superiority, in the vein of, “…only primitives would believe in a polytheistic religion.” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-misrepresent-christianity-as-polytheistic/521594/277 "2010-01-01T10:19:12Z")
No, any hint of intellectual superiority is more of in a “only idiots would believe in a magic sky pixie” vein. Mono, poly, don’t really matter. Christianity is false whether it is monotheistic or not, what we’re pointing out with the polytheism argument is the internal inconsistency, the cognative dissonance neccesary to be a believer. ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-misrepresent-christianity-as-polytheistic/521594/278 "2010-01-01T12:34:13Z")
> [@DirkGntly](#): > > … it is no different than Roman or Greek or Norse mythology, which we know were false, and thus, Christianity too must be false." I know you are not personally saying this, but merely stating that non-believers use this argument. But, really? We know these old religions are false? How do we know that? Isn’t all religion based on faith and the unprovability of either truth or falsity? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-misrepresent-christianity-as-polytheistic/521594/279 "2010-01-01T21:11:37Z")
> [@legalsnugs](#): > > I know you are not personally saying this, but merely stating that non-believers use this argument. But, really? We know these old religions are false? How do we know that? Isn’t all religion based on faith and the unprovability of either truth or falsity? In fact, I’d go a step further; we reject the old religions, but I agree that we can’t rule 'em out as false. Christianity, though, is different; Norse mythology doesn’t require monotheism – but to the extent that the New Testament piggybacks on the Old Testament, the First Commandment opens Christianity up to Dibble’s point about an internal contradiction. Norse polytheism doesn’t need to bother with that; it can simply reject the Old Testament. Christian polytheism, though, would be problematic in a different _ **kind** _ of way. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-misrepresent-christianity-as-polytheistic/521594/280 "2010-01-01T21:38:59Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Who was the last Catholic excommunicated or even censured for treating MAry with more deference than her due, for example? Just thought I’d pop in and suggest [Community of the Lady of All Nations](http://www.religioustolerance.org/army_mary.htm). Founded in Quebec in 1971 and excommunicated in 2007. I don’t think that technically “treating Mary with more deference than her due” was the only sticking point there, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-misrepresent-christianity-as-polytheistic/521594.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-misrepresent-christianity-as-polytheistic/521594.md?page=15)