# I pit people who refuse to learn from history
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-refuse-to-learn-from-history/657903
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [May 9, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-refuse-to-learn-from-history/657903 "2013-05-09T16:44:10Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-refuse-to-learn-from-history/657903/1 "2013-05-09T16:44:10Z")
Over the years, a lot of industries have been seriously disrupted by advances in technology. This provides a learning opportunity for people witnessing these events.
Meet California State Senator Leland Yee, who is evidently too stupid to learn from such events, particularly what the music industry has gone through.
> [@](#):
>
> State Senator Leland Yee (D-San Francisco) said in a press release Tuesday that he plans to introduce legislation that would ban using technology to create weapons with 3D printers. “We must be proactive in seeking solutions to this new threat rather than wait for the inevitable tragedies this will make possible,” he said.
> **[California Cracks Down On 3D-Printed Guns](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/california-3d-gun_n_3233683)**
>
> California Cracks Down On 3D-Printed Guns
Listen, you idiot, fighting a far-reaching, blanket fight against new technology is doomed to fail. Is California really so well-off that you have nothing better to do? If you insist on wasting government resources, is there nothing else to waste them on? Why don’t you go water a state park instead? You would do a lot less damage.
The music industry has tried bans on technology that they don’t like. It hasn’t worked. Sure, they catch a few people, but in the process they do a lot of damage to innocent people, and they still can’t stop the technology. What makes you think that you’ll do any better?
I think that power has gone to your head to such an extent that you should be classified as being brain-damaged. Why else would you try something that has absolutely no chance of working? If you want to have any control whatsoever over a new technology like this, about the only realistic chance is to lightly regulate it–there’s some people, probably a lot of people, who would pay a few dollars and fill out a very short form to register their 3-D printed gun, rather than break the law.
But there are a great many people indeed who will simply print out a gun and hide it, if 3-D guns are flat-out banned. And unless they talk about it to the wrong people, how are you going to catch them?
In short, Senator Leland Yee, you are stupid, you are despicable, and as far as I can tell, you have no reason whatsoever for holding the office that you do. You seem to have no redeeming features whatsoever. You ought to be publicly whipped for criminally-high levels of stupidity.
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### Author:  [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-refuse-to-learn-from-history/657903/2 "2013-05-09T16:56:22Z")
Haven’t we done this thread before?
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-refuse-to-learn-from-history/657903/3 "2013-05-09T17:01:13Z")
> [@Munch](#):
>
> Haven’t we done this thread before?
I didn’t learn anything when we did.
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### Author:  [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-refuse-to-learn-from-history/657903/4 "2013-05-09T17:02:28Z")
> [@Flyer](#):
>
> Is California really so well-off that you have nothing better to do? If you insist on wasting government resources, is there nothing else to waste them on?
First off, I counter-pit anyone who uses this stupid fucking argument - that [some major problem or problems] haven’t been fixed in [jurisdiction] therefore the officials thereof are not allowed to consider any issue except that narrowly defined set, and if they do, they are wasting time/money/resources and ignoring the “real” issues. Life goes on, other matters go on, and it’s pointless carping to hit on legislators and other officials who look beyond the two or five or ten huge, intractable problems at other things that certainly need some attention.
That said, California has a vast number of electees, all of whom need to find something to get column inches with. You really can’t lose your temper with any California legislator who calls a press conference to announce a bill to ban cars or IC engines or canola oil or droopy jeans or whatever. They’re just publicity whores playing to their constituency and/or scoring air time by saying anything, the more outrageous and provoking the better. I’ve lost count of the times the custom car community has gotten up in arms because some Berkeley boob wants to outlaw all cars over 1,000 pounds or something.
Yes, this is a stupid issue… today. Get back to this thread in five years.
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### Author:  [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-refuse-to-learn-from-history/657903/5 "2013-05-09T17:49:44Z")
Oh, this is far from the first evidence of Yee’s expensive stupidity. Between the costs for the California AG office appealing the case all the way up and the attorney’s fees awarded against them, he ended up costing the state [around $1.8 million](http://www.ecollegetimes.com/student-life/failed-video-game-law-cost-california-2-million-1.2703374#.T0Q4fPEgf8d) with his manifestly unconstitutional pet anti-video-game law. (Although, to be fair, the Governator shares considerable blame for pushing it that far.) He just wants to grandstand, and I guess this is his new hobby-horse since the Brown vs. EMA decision took away his old one.
If you’re in the mood to hate him, though, you could do worse than to check out some of the [articles referencing him](http://gamepolitics.com/category/topics/leland-yee) on GamePolitics. Despising him is something of an art form over there.
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### Author:  [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-refuse-to-learn-from-history/657903/6 "2013-05-09T18:49:47Z")
Haven’t we done this thread before?
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-refuse-to-learn-from-history/657903/7 "2013-05-09T19:12:19Z")
> [@Flywheel](#):
>
> Haven’t we done this thread before?
Naw, I would have remembered it.
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### Author:  [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-refuse-to-learn-from-history/657903/8 "2013-05-09T19:16:03Z")
_ppffft_
History is like, this stuff that happened. Who cares, right? We should live in the Now and not worry about the past!
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### Author:  [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-refuse-to-learn-from-history/657903/9 "2013-05-09T19:29:27Z")
See, I just read it as a guy who is appealing to his base. This is California, after all.
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### Author:  [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-refuse-to-learn-from-history/657903/10 "2013-05-09T19:45:46Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> See, I just read it as a guy who is appealing to his base. This is California, after all.
No, even in California most people think these guys are nuts.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-refuse-to-learn-from-history/657903/11 "2013-05-09T21:20:45Z")
> [@Flyer](#):
>
> Over the years, a lot of industries have been seriously disrupted by advances in technology. This provides a learning opportunity for people witnessing these events.
>
> Meet California State Senator Leland Yee, who is evidently too stupid to learn from such events, particularly what the music industry has gone through.
> If you want to have any control whatsoever over a new technology like this, about the only realistic chance is to lightly regulate it–there’s some people, probably a lot of people, who would pay a few dollars and fill out a very short form to register their 3-D printed gun, rather than break the law.
>
> But there are a great many people indeed who will simply print out a gun and hide it, if 3-D guns are flat-out banned. And unless they talk about it to the wrong people, how are you going to catch them?
> .
You can’t really make a “gun” out of a 3D plastic printer. What comes out can only be called a ‘gun” by a large stretch and still requires add’l metal parts. The best so far (and they won’t get much better) is not even as good as the ‘zip guns’ we made several score years ago out of a car radio antenna, a nail and a rubber band (the best so far fired one round-badly- then broke). Google “make a zip gun” and you’ll see plenty of “quick & easy how to’s” with junk laying around the house that will make a gun better than the best that can made from a plastic 3D printer- even a decade from now (as long as they can only do plastic).
Now, there is a real concern in some other nations, etc where realistic toy guns are banned. If you wanted to make a replica that looked REALLY good and would be fine for a hold up where you are pretty sure they aren’t packing a real gun, then 3D printers will certainly be able to make a very realistic LOOKING replica. Better than soap, anyway.
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### Author:  [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2013, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-refuse-to-learn-from-history/657903/12 "2013-05-09T23:11:22Z")
> [@Flywheel](#):
>
> Haven’t we done this thread before?
Hasn’t somebody asked this question before?
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### Author:  [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2013, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-refuse-to-learn-from-history/657903/13 "2013-05-10T00:07:35Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> You can’t really make a “gun” out of a 3D plastic printer. What comes out can only be called a ‘gun” by a large stretch and still requires add’l metal parts.
It requires a nail for a firing pin, that’s it. He added a metal slug to make it comply with the “detectable handguns” laws.
> [@](#):
>
> The best so far (and they won’t get much better) is not even as good as the ‘zip guns’ we made several score years ago out of a car radio antenna, a nail and a rubber band (the best so far fired one round-badly- then broke). Google “make a zip gun” and you’ll see plenty of “quick & easy how to’s” with junk laying around the house that will make a gun better than the best that can made from a plastic 3D printer- even a decade from now (as long as they can only do plastic).
>
> Now, there is a real concern in some other nations, etc where realistic toy guns are banned. If you wanted to make a replica that looked REALLY good and would be fine for a hold up where you are pretty sure they aren’t packing a real gun, then 3D printers will certainly be able to make a very realistic LOOKING replica. Better than soap, anyway.
I guess you [don’t get PBS:](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/social_issues/jan-june13/guns2_05-06.html)
> [@](#):
>
> RAY SUAREZ: Well, you were there. You watched it being used. It didn’t blow up in his hand or shatter into plastic shards.
>
> Is this a sturdy, reliable, reusable firearm, or a one-and-done kind of weapon?
>
> ANDY GREENBERG: Well, it actually does seem to be fairly durable.
>
> I have watched videos of a 3-D printed barrel being fired 10 times without cracking. And I did see Cody Wilson fire his Liberator handgun twice, once with a remote trigger pull with the string and once by hand. And it didn’t explode or crack those times either.
>
> But it’s unclear whether this is, you know, a durable weapon. I think the key thing to remember, though, is that it has a barrel that can be swapped out. So, you can print a new barrel in just a couple of hours. And he showed me that he had kind of a case full of barrels. It would be really simple to kind of print out four or five of these and have them ready to go.
>
> So, even if the barrel of this homemade weapon is deformed and doesn’t work, you can – you always have another one ready. That’s part of the danger of this gun.
DoD has ceased the downloads of the files and taken possession of them, so looks like, other than the 100,000 previous downloads, this is a done deal.
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### Author:  [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-refuse-to-learn-from-history/657903/14 "2013-05-10T02:07:06Z")
> [@Flyer](#):
>
> Listen, you idiot, fighting a far-reaching, blanket fight against new technology is doomed to fail.
I doubt whether that is necessarily true, but even if it were, it is irrelevant. Banning the use of 3D printing to specifically make guns (or even weapons in general) does not in any way, shape, or form amount to a blanket fight against a new technology.
It is illegal to use a printing press or a photocopier to make banknotes. The relevant laws are fairly successful in curbing such activity, are no more difficult to enforce than most other laws, and do not seem to have in any way constrained the use, advancement, and spread of printing and copier technology.
Making it illegal to use 3D printers to make guns seems like a perfectly reasonable and normal use of law to me, and in no way likely to interfere with advancement and spread of the use of the technology for more benign purposes.
But I suspect that 3D printing is not what you care about at all. This is really just another gun control thread in disguise, and you are really just another gun nut, who cannot bear the thought of any restrictions at all being placed upon your totally unfettered access to guns of any kind whatsoever. Even sintered plastic guns are so sexeh!
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### Author:  [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-refuse-to-learn-from-history/657903/15 "2013-05-10T02:43:28Z")
That’s because history is not an exact science.
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2013, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-refuse-to-learn-from-history/657903/16 "2013-05-10T03:00:42Z")
> [@njtt](#):
>
> It is illegal to use a printing press or a photocopier to make banknotes. The relevant laws are fairly successful in curbing such activity, are no more difficult to enforce than most other laws, and do not seem to have in any way constrained the use, advancement, and spread of printing and copier technology.
>
> Making it illegal to use 3D printers to make guns seems like a perfectly reasonable and normal use of law to me, and in no way likely to interfere with advancement and spread of the use of the technology for more benign purposes.
Surely you understand that it’s illegal to make banknotes in any way. If you think it’s reasonable for it to be illegal to make guns in any way that would make sense. But since it’s not there’s a legitimate question about freedom of infornation here.
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### Author:  [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2013, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-refuse-to-learn-from-history/657903/17 "2013-05-10T07:00:16Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#):
>
> DoD has ceased the downloads of the files and taken possession of them, so looks like, other than the 100,000 previous downloads, this is a done deal.
Yes. Other than the fact the information has now been replicated over a hundred thousand times that we know of, the information no longer exists anywhere in the world. Done and dusted. Score another one for the DoD.
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### Author:  [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2013, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-refuse-to-learn-from-history/657903/18 "2013-05-10T09:10:51Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#):
>
> DoD has ceased the downloads of the files and taken possession of them, so looks like, other than the 100,000 previous downloads, this is a done deal.
And how hard is it to get a bootleg copy of the program from someone who happened to download it when it was available?
And what is stopping me from cranking up my CAD program and whipping off my own design?
Though nothing is stopping anybody with the experience and a bit of equipment making a WW2 vintage [Liberator](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FP-45_Liberator). 23 stamped and turned steel parts and a bit of pressure tube for the unrifled barrel. They made 1 million of them. I wonder how many are still lurking sunk into the ground from being dropped and not retrieved…
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2013, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-refuse-to-learn-from-history/657903/19 "2013-05-10T12:46:49Z")
Anybody know if the plastic gun barrel was rifled?
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### Author:  [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2013, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-refuse-to-learn-from-history/657903/20 "2013-05-10T13:13:55Z")
> [@TriPolar](#):
>
> Anybody know if the plastic gun barrel was rifled?
Hardly matters for such a weapon. Not like they’re going to be prized for their accuracy.
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