# I pit people who riot over a pair of sneakers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 24, 2011, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-riot-over-a-pair-of-sneakers/607280 "2011-12-24T14:34:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-riot-over-a-pair-of-sneakers/607280/141 "2011-12-30T22:08:54Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > Wait, what? How is _Frankenstein_ a critique of science? ::eerie organ chords:: ::flashing lighning, peals of thunder:: A scientist pursuing a goal of discovery without any further thought of what he is producing and what it will become. And the consequences of what he made. That which he created turned on him and destroyed him. > [@](#): > > And how does facile undergraduate multiculturalism reflect the values of the field of anthropology? Do professional anthropologists really ask, “Well you have a reliable car; what’s up with that, huh?” Sorry, I don’t understand these two questions. Whatever you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-riot-over-a-pair-of-sneakers/607280/142 "2011-12-31T03:35:32Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > \ > > Why, thank you! So this thread wasn’t a complete waste of time. 🙂 No snark intended, although I should probably not speak for the entire Board. \*I \*miss you, at least. You’re a poster I’ve watched for in the past, because you always seem to have good sense. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-riot-over-a-pair-of-sneakers/607280/143 "2011-12-31T05:09:44Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > So _::shrug::_ nobody said culture always has to be awesome. We could draw up an endless list of ways in which culture also sucks. Anthropology aims to be a science and, as such, aims to obtain a putative pure or applied knowledge of what it studies. As a putative science, it aims at knowledge in itself, not knowledge in the application of a value judgment. But liking $200.00 shoes is hardly an example of a culture “sucking.” For example, a pair of completely [standard-issue boots](http://www.aldoshoes.com/ca-eng/women/boots/knee-high-boots) from Aldo (not Aldi, dumbasses), which approximately 50% of women on any given rush-hour subway will be wearing half the year, costs around that. Do yuppies “suck” for buying normal shoes from a normal mid-range mall retailer? A $200 pair of shoes is just a completely unremarkable thing…I’d venture most adults who have any interest in footwear own a pair or two around that price point. So the question is why does this particular kind of $200.00 shoe attract so much ire? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-riot-over-a-pair-of-sneakers/607280/144 "2011-12-31T05:50:20Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > But liking $200.00 shoes is hardly an example of a culture “sucking.” > > For example, a pair of completely [standard-issue boots](http://www.aldoshoes.com/ca-eng/women/boots/knee-high-boots) from Aldo (not Aldi, dumbasses), which approximately 50% of women on any given rush-hour subway will be wearing half the year, costs around that. Do yuppies “suck” for buying normal shoes from a normal mid-range mall retailer? A $200 pair of shoes is just a completely unremarkable thing…I’d venture most adults who have any interest in footwear own a pair or two around that price point. > > So the question is why does this particular kind of $200.00 shoe attract so much ire? Do you really not get that those same people react the same way to any article of clothing that is that expensive? You bring out any other pair of $200 shoes, and they’d react the same way. And I would venture that you are horribly mistaken. I don’t know anyone but shoe aficionado who have shoes over the $100 price point. And those people only wear those shoes on special occasions, not as some sort of status symbol. BTW, that’s the answer to your question. These shoes aren’t $200 because they are good shoes, or even because they are supposed to go with fancy clothes. They are $200 so that you can wear them with your basic clothes and show off that you can afford them. They are a sort of urban status symbol worn by groups of people that are not looked highly upon. For some reason, it’s worse for the lower classes to be ostentatious with their wealth than the higher class. I say “for some reason”, but it’s really a lot of factors. The biggest is that you obviously are trying to not fit in with the lower and working classes, but are not good enough for the upper class, so you wind up shunned by both. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-riot-over-a-pair-of-sneakers/607280/145 "2011-12-31T05:56:16Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > _sigh_. Clearly none of you shop at mid-range mall footwear shops. Without Aldo, where do people get basic, mildly stylish, a-tad-pricey shoes? I fucking rob people! ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-riot-over-a-pair-of-sneakers/607280/146 "2011-12-31T06:02:07Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > But come on guys, can we stop it with the “Can you believe those people are robbing each other over sneakers?” thing? How many freaking people get robbed over iPhones? Totally. My local police blotter is nothing but picture after picture of skinny white hipsters who have been arrested for strong-arm robberies. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-riot-over-a-pair-of-sneakers/607280/147 "2011-12-31T06:44:07Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > But liking $200.00 shoes is hardly an example of a culture “sucking.” It is to me. Seems to at least imply that culture is consumerist and shallow. But I realize I’m in the minority. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-riot-over-a-pair-of-sneakers/607280/148 "2011-12-31T09:13:32Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I’m replying to the “it’s just sneakers. They don’t make you fly. No sneaker is worth that much money” school of thought. Yeah. obviously stabbing someone over sneakers is not a reasonable thing to do. But to pay a couple hundred bucks for a really nice pair of sneakers? What the hell is wrong with that? Nobody gives me shit because I wear a $259 pair of Fluevog shoes. Nobody gives me shit because I just bought a ridiculously expensive dress from Anthropologie. All of these things are stupid pricey and there is no good reason to be spending that kind of money…in fact, I’m sure I could find things just as good at Ross. But with most people, we are fine saying “It’s your paycheck, buy stuff you like.” I > > So why the sudden interest in other people’s wardrobes? Why is it we are suddenly really concerned about one particular demographic’s- a demographic few of us belong to- economic efficiency in fashion trends? How many of us show the same austerity that we apparently expect other people to show? > > I’ll say it, the “it’s only sneakers” thing strikes me as another way to take potshots at black people. Just like some Dopers will always jump all over modern African-American naming practices (They are made up! You are hindering your child’s economic future!), holidays, fashion trends and modes of conspicuous consumption (I recall a stream of threads about what a waste of money grills are…and yet oddly, I recall only one on the waste of money that is extreme tooth whitening.) > > Now, the rioting is a different story. But come on guys, can we stop it with the “Can you believe those people are robbing each other over sneakers?” thing? How many freaking people get robbed over iPhones? I can’t even text in my neighborhood because we are running one iPhone stickup a week. Why don’t we have some railing against people who kill each other over telephones? Thieves tend to steal valuable items. Some sneakers are valuable items- maybe not to you, but to a big enough group of people that there is a market for expensive sneakers. it’s not any “dumber” to steal a pair of Air Jordans that retail for $200 on the black market than to steak an iPhone that retails for the same amount. Im confused. Didn’t you post about iPhones getting jacked in your hood? By black kids? Women dont riot over a Hermes purse. Or Apple products. NO ONE needs to get violent over kicks they likely can’t afford. I really don’t care about the price of tea in Cameroon. People who riot and steal and STAB over anything are classless shitbags who deserve something a lot harsher than a Pitting. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-riot-over-a-pair-of-sneakers/607280/149 "2011-12-31T09:16:16Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > It is to me. Seems to at least imply that culture is consumerist and shallow. But I realize I’m in the minority. Most of the kids who are on free and reduced lunch in my school have more than one pair. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-riot-over-a-pair-of-sneakers/607280/150 "2011-12-31T10:07:58Z")
I went to a Best of British Shop here in the week. I bought some Scottish Breakfast Tea for about $10. I guess the local stuff would be about $2. I must be a racist chardonnay socialist. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-riot-over-a-pair-of-sneakers/607280/151 "2011-12-31T10:53:42Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Some sneakers are valuable items- maybe not to you, but to a big enough group of people that there is a market for expensive sneakers. it’s not any “dumber” to steal a pair of Air Jordans that retail for $200 on the black market than to steak an iPhone that retails for the same amount. O, well as long as they’re robbing people for their _valuables_ it makes it almost reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-riot-over-a-pair-of-sneakers/607280/152 "2011-12-31T15:44:49Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And I would venture that you are horribly mistaken. I don’t know anyone but shoe aficionado who have shoes over the $100 price point. And those people only wear those shoes on special occasions, not as some sort of status symbol. Erm… what sort of backwater do you live in, son? She is not remotely mistaken. In the parts of the world where large numbers of people ride the subway every day, $200 boots are very much the norm. Also, I accidentally wandered into the Running of the Brides once (I worked upstairs at Filenes, I just wanted a cup of coffee, and there was a Dunkin’ Donuts in the Basement at the time). That shit was _terrifying_. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-riot-over-a-pair-of-sneakers/607280/153 "2011-12-31T17:44:32Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > No snark intended, although I should probably not speak for the entire Board. \*I \*miss you, at least. You’re a poster I’ve watched for in the past, because you always seem to have good sense. How astonishing-I figured my posts were pretty much not read. 🙂 I’m mostly over at Giraffe Boards when I’m on message boards these days. Come on over. We have sensible folk there as well (and a few complete nutbags–not telling which is which!). Back to the thread: I’d Pit anyone who stabbed someone over any price footwear, regardless of race, creed, color or SES. Coming out against violence while making a commercial transaction isn’t exactly edgy, I know, but I thought the point needed some clarity as this “discussion” has deteriorated into “my mall/SES is better than yours” type shit. :dubious: But it has been eye-opening. I never realized how many people are actually paying attention to my shoes and pricing them in their heads. It’s a weird world. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-riot-over-a-pair-of-sneakers/607280/154 "2011-12-31T17:46:22Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Do you really not get that those same people react the same way to any article of clothing that is that expensive? You bring out any other pair of $200 shoes, and they’d react the same way. > > And I would venture that you are horribly mistaken. I don’t know anyone but shoe aficionado who have shoes over the $100 price point. And those people only wear those shoes on special occasions, not as some sort of status symbol. > > BTW, that’s the answer to your question. These shoes aren’t $200 because they are good shoes, or even because they are supposed to go with fancy clothes. They are $200 so that you can wear them with your basic clothes and show off that you can afford them. They are a sort of urban status symbol worn by groups of people that are not looked highly upon. > > For some reason, it’s worse for the lower classes to be ostentatious with their wealth than the higher class. I say “for some reason”, but it’s really a lot of factors. The biggest is that you obviously are trying to not fit in with the lower and working classes, but are not good enough for the upper class, so you wind up shunned by both. That “some reason” is old fashioned snobbery and condescension, mixed with a lot of assumptions about the people in question. $200 is around the price point of nicer shoes at non-discout mall stores (Aldo, Steve Madden) and nicer department stores (Macys, Nordstrom.) It’s not an obscene price for a pair of high-end shoes from a well respected brand. And, I think it’s self-evident that if people are buying $200 Air Jordans, they by definition _can_ afford them. Who is anyone to take a single look at them and decide that they “are the one who can least afford them?” ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-riot-over-a-pair-of-sneakers/607280/155 "2011-12-31T18:05:45Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I also believe, in my heart of hearts, that most rational-minded black I dunno. What if they’re really nice sneakers? So even sven is wrong, but she’s right about this: > [@even\_sven](#): > > And, I think it’s self-evident that if people are buying $200 Air Jordans, they by definition _can_ afford them. Who is anyone to take a single look at them and decide that they “are the one who can least afford them?” I’m sure some people out there really can’t afford them, the way I’m sure a lot of BMW drivers I see riding around can’t really afford those cars, but what makes someone think, upon sight alone, that the Air Jordan demographic can’t afford some flippin’ sneakers? As we’ve established, for everyone except BigT that is, $200 for shoes isn’t outrageously expensive. Hell, I just wore a pair of the ubiquitously popular knee-high brown leather boot that every woman between 25-40 is apparently legally required to have yesterday, and they run for $180 or so. Whatever. Statements describing the Air Jordan lunacy “conspicuous consumption by a socioeconomc group that can least afford” makes me raise an eyebrow. What makes you think everyone buying these shoes is poor? Because they’re dark-skinned? I know on average in this country blacks have lower incomes than whites, but that doesn’t mean every black person you see with semi-expensive sneakers cannot afford them. I grew up in a poor black and Latino neighborhood, and let me tell ya, everybody _wanted_ Air Jordans but hardly anyone had them. Some lucky kids got them as their one Christmas gift, and that was it. I’d assume the people who just go to the mall and grab a pair are not, for the most part, people who have to scrape by to purchase them. Dark people are not a monolith, you know. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-riot-over-a-pair-of-sneakers/607280/156 "2011-12-31T18:34:18Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And I would venture that you are horribly mistaken. I don’t know anyone but shoe aficionado who have shoes over the $100 price point. And those people only wear those shoes on special occasions, not as some sort of status symbol. My running shoes are $75 My daily casual/work shoes are each $150 My nice dress shoes are $250 I am a guy that is as far from a shoe aficionado as you can get ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-riot-over-a-pair-of-sneakers/607280/157 "2011-12-31T19:06:36Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Erm… what sort of backwater do you live in, son? > > She is not remotely mistaken. In the parts of the world where large numbers of people ride the subway every day, $200 boots are very much the norm. I think a poll is in order. Something tells me you’d come up on the wrong side of the masses. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-riot-over-a-pair-of-sneakers/607280/158 "2011-12-31T19:27:50Z")
I think it’s a male/female divide thing. I don’t think men tend to wear knee high leather boots like those much anymore. However, I can confirm that, at least east coast, it’s a popular female women’s boot in winter. For men, for that price, we’re looking at a nice Red Wing work boot. Good damn boots. If you work construction, you probably have a pair with steel or composite toes. I dunno. I don’t think I’ve ever paid over $60 for a pair of shoes. On the other hand, those $60 shoes probably retailed for $150+. But this is because I know how to shop. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-riot-over-a-pair-of-sneakers/607280/159 "2011-12-31T19:39:31Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > She is not remotely mistaken. In the parts of the world where large numbers of people ride the subway every day, $200 boots are very much the norm. > [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > I think a poll is in order. Something tells me you’d come up on the wrong side of the masses. I don’t think so, especially now that the Basement has closed. Good shoes are expensive and good boots even more so. Cheap shoes are one thing if you drive everywhere and sit all day, but if you use your feet to actually get around, especially in a New England winter, you need the right equipment. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-riot-over-a-pair-of-sneakers/607280/160 "2011-12-31T19:52:02Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > I dunno. I don’t think I’ve ever paid over $60 for a pair of shoes. On the other hand, those $60 shoes probably retailed for $150+. But this is because I know how to shop. As do l, if I pay $200 for a pair of boots they’re sure as hell not going to be Aldo (Aldo sucks). That said Aldo (and Madden, and Nine West, etc.) boots retail for about $200 and _they are mid-price brands_. Some folks here need to wrap their brains around the reality of that, because I’m not making it up. > [@j666](#): > > Cheap shoes are one thing if you drive everywhere and sit all day, but if you use your feet to actually get around, especially in a New England winter, you need the right equipment. Also, this. Of course, I wouldn’t hurt someone for a half-price pair of Nine West boots. Frye, maybe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-riot-over-a-pair-of-sneakers/607280.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-riot-over-a-pair-of-sneakers/607280.md?page=9)