# I pit people who think tickling is a psychotic act of dominance **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 24, 2008, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-think-tickling-is-a-psychotic-act-of-dominance/442512 "2008-03-24T07:58:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![frog\_princess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6bbea6/32.png) [@frog\_princess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/frog_princess)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-think-tickling-is-a-psychotic-act-of-dominance/442512/61 "2008-03-27T13:57:44Z")
[QUOTE=Grammanaut] It’s not the tickling in itself, it’s being held down and restrained by someone stronger than yourself \ [/QUOTE] I couldn’t have said it better myself. Now if I can just get hubby to hold me down and tickle me tonight… ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-think-tickling-is-a-psychotic-act-of-dominance/442512/62 "2008-03-27T16:28:48Z")
My father used to trap my sister or I at the dinner table by coming up behind us and then tickling us. And when it would continue to the point we’d cry and beg him to stop, he’d get all offended: “I’m just teasing!” Or, almost as aggravating, he’d poke us in the side. Poke. Poke. Poke. Where you couldn’t get away from it, and no matter how hard you held your arms to your sides, he’d find a way to get around it and poke you anyway. This would go on regularly, and it was really, really unpleasant. So IMO tickling can _definitely_ be a form of dominance. He was being deliberately cruel doing that, and he knew it perfectly well. So to this day I hate tickling, for obvious reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-think-tickling-is-a-psychotic-act-of-dominance/442512/63 "2008-03-27T17:18:29Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Well sure. I think that was the OP’s point - people are generalizing their view of tickling as torture to the OP of the other thread. Obviously, while she may hatehateHATE it, she doesn’t actually mind it, or she’d take steps. [/QUOTE] Then she doesn’t really “hatehateHATE it”, apparently. I think my problem in that thread (and the related BBQ thread) is that I was taking that OP’er at her word whereas now I’ve concluded she’s more or less full of shit. But when someone tells me that another adult is holding them down and physically subjecting them to something they **hatehateHATE** , I don’t think “Good times! Good times!” “I HATE IT! (but I don’t actually mind it)!” is the sort of games playing that makes me really impatient IRL (although to each his/her own) and does not translate well on a message board. So if I took the woman at her word, sue me. “Something as simple as _tickling_” can certainly be worthy of criticism, as others have already explained, and it doesn’t reflect one way or the other on my “insecurity” to know that. Sure, the tickle monster can be great fun, but if that’s the sort of thing we’re talking about, then I for one would appreciate it if the poster didn’t protest about how much she “hatehateHATED” it. ISTM that if you say things you don’t mean, you run the risk that people will make the mistake of taking you at your word. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-think-tickling-is-a-psychotic-act-of-dominance/442512/64 "2008-03-27T17:20:46Z")
Anyone ever see [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrvOLvXOtE8) [fruitcake](http://www.aimpress.com/yaqibio.htm) on Howard Stern years ago? Definitely creepy in this particular case. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-think-tickling-is-a-psychotic-act-of-dominance/442512/65 "2008-03-27T17:23:09Z")
When I was 18, my girlfriend and I used to tickle each other from time to time. Once, I got her pretty good, and even though she said, “stop” once or twice, I kept going. So, she bit my finger – hard – and stormed off. Ever since then, I’ve been extremely sensitive to the idea that someone may not enjoy being tickled. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-think-tickling-is-a-psychotic-act-of-dominance/442512/66 "2008-03-27T17:27:38Z")
[QUOTE= Alice the Goon] I disagree with the OP- tickling can definitely be an act of violence and aggression. [/QUOTE] CAN BE!!! CAN BE!!! CAN BE!!! NOT “IS!!!” Jeez. This thread really, really freaks me out. [QUOTE= Skald the Rhymer] I don’t understand why you need to pretend it’s an unconscious elbow. Tickling a person who has asked you to stop is assault. How serious an assault depends on how much force the tickler uses to keep the person from getting away. If someone keeps tickling you after you’ve repeatedly asked them to stop and tries to restrain you from removing yourself, a blow to the nose is entirely appropriate. [/QUOTE] No, technically, it’s battery, the rest of your post is ridiculous, and a blow to the nose is nowhere near appropriate in a tickling situation. [QUOTE= WhyNot] Well sure. I think that was the OP’s point - people are generalizing their view of tickling as torture to the OP of the other thread. [/QUOTE] Precisely. Amen. \*\*Listen up, people, your pet psychosis is not the next terrible disease that is destroying society. \*\* Your own little phobia is not deserving of its own place in the DSM-V. My best friend didn’t rape my mind with callous disregard for the effect it would have on the rest of my life just because she moved into a 25th-floor apartment and I have acrophobia. The closer we get to the default view of the average human being “eggshell,” the more I worry. All attitudes like these do is dilute the proper reaction to victims of real torture. Jeez. I bet half these people would have been picketing that mass pillow fight in Boston the other day. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-think-tickling-is-a-psychotic-act-of-dominance/442512/67 "2008-03-27T17:32:43Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] Then she doesn’t really “hatehateHATE it”, apparently. [/QUOTE] I agree that she doesn’t “hate” it. I’m not so sure “hatehateHATE” is listed in the dictionary, so I took it to be good-natured hyperbole, with perhaps a splash of onomatopoeia. (At least, that’s much like my kid sounds when I tickle him.) > [@](#): > > ISTM that if you say things you don’t mean, you run the risk that people will make the mistake of taking you at your word. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-think-tickling-is-a-psychotic-act-of-dominance/442512/68 "2008-03-27T17:56:27Z")
As psychotic acts of dominance go, tickling ain’t a bad choice. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-think-tickling-is-a-psychotic-act-of-dominance/442512/69 "2008-03-27T18:35:11Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Scrappy Hero Pup] \*\*Listen up, people, your pet psychosis is not the next terrible disease that is destroying society. \*\* Your own little phobia is not deserving of its own place in the DSM-V. [/QUOTE] And no one said it was. What pisses me off about threads like this is that people intentionally misrepresent what others have said, because that’s the only way to make their position seem ridiculous and “rebut” it. The only person who said that _every single instance of tickling, no matter what the context_ is “a psychotic act of dominance” – the ONLY person – is the OP’er. But God forbid that we honestly respond to what people actually said when it’s ever so much easier to condemn what _no one fucking said_. ---
**Author:** ![pantheon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6bbea6/32.png) [@pantheon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantheon)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-think-tickling-is-a-psychotic-act-of-dominance/442512/70 "2008-03-27T21:14:28Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] I agree that she doesn’t “hate” it. I’m not so sure “hatehateHATE” is listed in the dictionary, so I took it to be good-natured hyperbole, with perhaps a splash of onomatopoeia. (At least, that’s much like my kid sounds when I tickle him.) [/QUOTE] Word. Maybe it’s just the general tone of her posts, but I instantly associated it to the way my 14yo daughter says “Zohmygah I hatehateHATE this song!” and changes the radio station. Sometimes for good-natured fun, the 8yo boy and I might keep the song on and sing along loudly (for all of about 30 seconds) just to ‘torture’ her a little, and we all laugh. It’s all relative. I don’t consider this damaging to my daughter. I don’t think nails on chalkboard are equivalent to using six-foot speaker 24/7 noise warfare, but I also reserve the right to think anyone who does the nails thing to be an asshole, or anyone else who takes pleasure in someone else’s discomfort. I’m mixed on tickling. Kids love(d) it, I can tolerate it mostly, but certain things/areas cause a very reflexive violent opposition, even if only the above-mentioned muscle cramping/contraction which can admittedly be violent enough to hurt the perpetrator. It’s very akin to the way even a slight touch can be almost painful during post-orgasm sensitivity. Oh, and I think the word they were looking for in post 14 was ‘raptor’, like in Jurassic Park. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Arabella\_Flynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8491ac/32.png) [@Arabella\_Flynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arabella_Flynn)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-think-tickling-is-a-psychotic-act-of-dominance/442512/71 "2008-03-27T21:47:13Z")
It’s not tickling itself that’s the act of dominance. It’s when the target has made his or her displeasure known, and the tickling continues anyway. That’s basically the tickle-er saying to the tickle-ee, “I want to do this to you and I will, and your opinion doesn’t matter.” If you enjoy tickling, of course, then you have no displeasure to make known, and it’s fun. If you don’t enjoy tickling – well, the elbow-to-nose technique works well, and the message is pretty clear. Flinching will probably happen no matter what, just because of how tickling works, but there’s a difference between the friend with ticklish feet who yanks them away and giggles, and the one who reflexively kicks me in the face even if I do it by accident. ---
**Author:** ![Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crocodiles_And_Boulevards)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-think-tickling-is-a-psychotic-act-of-dominance/442512/72 "2008-03-28T02:22:58Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] And no one said it was. What pisses me off about threads like this is that people intentionally misrepresent what others have said, because that’s the only way to make their position seem ridiculous and “rebut” it. The only person who said that _every single instance of tickling, no matter what the context_ is “a psychotic act of dominance” – the ONLY person – is the OP’er. But God forbid that we honestly respond to what people actually said when it’s ever so much easier to condemn what _no one fucking said_. [/QUOTE] Oh, please. Did you even read the thread that I was referring to? Of course you did, you’re one of the biggest “misrepresentatives” of it. I quote: > [@](#): > > I think this is bullshit, and I also think it’s the mistake freakalette buys into: that you must have ARGUMENT! and CONFLICT! and MAD BREAKING UP! and WEEPY GETTING BACK TOGETHER! or you don’t have passion. She must be naughty so he can punish her! She must act like a child (or a bitch) and then abase herself to him to see if he will still give her affection in spite of it. Do you love me? How about now? What if I do THIS? Do you still love me? What about NOW? \<[link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9617816&postcount=728) \> AND: > [@](#): > > The extent of your “slavery” to your husband within the home is “looks and whispers”? Besides, that’s bullshit: You’ve already said in this and the other thread that he can tell you how to dress; order your around; decide where you go to eat; and tickle you even after you protest and knowing that you “HATE” it (your word). So “looks and whispers,” my ass. To which **freekalette** replies: > [@](#): > > I’m gonna respond to this one, then I have to go cook supper. > > LOOKS AND WHISPERS are what happens IN FRONT OF THE KIDS. Got it? Yes, sometimes Joe tells me what to wear. The kids don’t hear it; they just see that I’m wearing whatever I’m wearing. Since they aren’t aware I was TOLD to wear jeans and a black t-shirt today, then it’s no different TO THEM than any other day when I wear this same outfit (without being told to.) I have had clothespins put on my nipples, but the kids don’t see it. They see me mouthing off and calling Joe a doodoo-head (or whatever) and they laugh about it. A week later when they’re at their gran’s they DO NOT SEE that Joe is clipping little wooden pins all over my breasts. When we are talking about an upcoming child’s birthday, they see me lean over and whisper in his ear, but they DON’T hear me say “I’ll give YOU a birthday spanking!” They ask where we are going for supper, and when Joe says McDonald’s, they hear me say “Yep, Mickey Dee’s it is!!” And I never TELL them that I would have rather gone to Burger King. > Reply With Quote Talk about putting words into someone’s mouth 😛 It’s not that I don’t see your argument or the rationale behind it, but I simply find it rather disingenuous for a lot of the posters involved that they are attacking **freekalette** so vigorously when they’ve got oh so many opinions on how children ought to be raised. You’re not even the example I’m thinking of. **Dio** is. I’ve seen him bending over backwards to take this thing to the maximum level of hostility, but he’s only slightly hostile to religious parents. It’s like **freekalette** ’s fetish is somehow _worse_ than, as you say: > [@](#): > > Children learn what they see, they learn acceptable behavior in their homes, from their parents. Screamers raise screamers, religious fundamentalists raise religious fundamentalists, and batterers raise batterers. Equally, I’m fairly sure that the majority of posters raging on in that thread only have mild distaste for religious parents, stereotypical iron handed Asian parents, etc. You certainly DON’T see anyone creating a pit thread for **HazelNutCoffee** ’s folks. Without any other evidence, it seems like the only reason **freekalette** ’s receiving so much, uh… \*constructive criticism - is because her particular choice in home-life is out of the ordinary. > [@](#): > > IMO the behavior these parents are engaging in teaches their children very little that is good and much is potentially very bad, and it is unrealistic to expect children to grasp that mommy and daddy are only pretending! I don’t REALLY think I’m inferior to daddy, I just act that way all the time! Other great tickle quotes from that thread (and there are quite a few more than this): **Key Lime Guy** > [@](#): > > Forget the kids for a minute. OP said she doesn’t like being spanked and "hatehateHATE"s being tickled. Yet he repeatedly does them anyway. > > Isn’t that abuse by everyone’s definition? **Una Persson** > [@](#): > > …it really gives me the creeps. What message does that send, really, to the kids? Think about it. “Mom really hates this but we’re going to force ourselves on her body anyhow and violate her personal space.” I can easily see a hypothetical boy raised that way, growing up to later on in life thinking “my girl doesn’t like it when I feel her up, but you know, women need to be told what to do and just accept it.” **eleanorigby** > [@](#): > > I am most appalled at the inclusion of the children in the tickling of Mom. This perverts the parent/child role and not in a good way. Some inversion is healthy and can even be fun (ganging up on Dad with water balloons while he washing the car or whatever). This tickling is a punishment for her, one that the kids not only witness, but are actively involved in. She can say all she wants that they don’t know the true motive or aren’t told the true purpose (which is a lot like telling them she ran into a door or fell down the stairs, no?), but the kids can sense something else is going on. Not only do they (most likely) not see this behavior at friends’ houses, but there is bound to be an undercurrent of tension to the tickle scene. Even if the sexual subtext is not picked up by the kids, they are learning that Mom can (and is, regularly) be forced into a submissive posture by Dad and that this is ok–it’s an appropriate way to relate to the opposite sex. No, it is not. and > [@](#): > > Characterize/minimize as you like–it would appear that you are being included in an activity that you “hate”. Either you don’t feel that strongly about it or you are willing to put up with it for other reasons–most likely that IN CONTEXT, you realize that it is all good fun. Freekalette’s context is that she is being punished. Big difference. Physical touch, the motives for, the situation, the degree and amount of contact–all of that matters in relationships. Nowhere does she say this tickling is “playful” or “enjoyable”–she hateshatesHATES it. But at least **VarlosZ** is being sane on the issue: > [@](#): > > In short, we can’t know exactly what’s going on with the tickling in that household, but it certainly sounds to me like it’s effectively indistinguishable from almost every other tickle-fight in America. \<[link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9605076&postcount=183) \> On a final note, see **WhyNot** ’s post in this thread (and my reply), which I assume you read, but you wanted to say what you think I was _really_ saying anyway 😉 > [@](#): > > Well sure. I think that was the OP’s point - people are generalizing their view of tickling as torture to the OP of the other thread. Obviously, while she may hatehateHATE it, she doesn’t actually mind it, or she’d take steps. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-think-tickling-is-a-psychotic-act-of-dominance/442512/73 "2008-03-28T03:03:11Z")
[QUOTE=Crocodiles And Boulevards] Oh, please. Did you even read the thread that I was referring to? Of course you did, you’re one of the biggest “misrepresentatives” of it.It’s not that I don’t see your argument or the rationale behind it, but I simply find it rather disingenuous for a lot of the posters involved that they are attacking **freekalette** so vigorously when they’ve got oh so many opinions on how children ought to be raised. You’re not even the example I’m thinking of. **Dio** is. I’ve seen him bending over backwards to take this thing to the maximum level of hostility, but he’s only slightly hostile to religious parents. It’s like **freekalette** ’s fetish is somehow _worse_. [/quote] Y’know, I said this in the other thread: When we are talking about Subject X, the rejoinder that Subject Y is _worse_ is a shitty, shitty argument. No one was talking about religion. To me it’s like talking about someone who beats their kids three times a week and seeing someone defending it by saying “At least they don’t beat their kids _every day_!” Actually, that would be a better argument in fact, strawman though it is, because at least in both cases you’d be talking about the same error (kid-beating). Here, you’re attacking **Dio** for being IYO insufficiently hostile to relgiious parents, as if that has fuck-all to do with his disapproval of **freakalette’s** parenting decisions. And none of that has anything at all with the problem with _your_ thread, this thread. You have extrapolated people taking issue with **freakalette’s** husband tickling her without her permission, over her objection, something she “hates” – and that’s how SHE described it – and you twisted that to mean that people object to ALL tickling, no matter where, when, or by whom, and NO ONE SAID THAT. NO ONE. Except you, of course. And it pisses me off, be it rather mildly, that people twist what other posters say in order to make them sound ridiculous or irrational and to misrepresent what they said. You’re not the only person to do that, it’s pretty common around here, but I don’t like it, especially when I’m one of the persons being misrepresented. > [@](#): > > Equally, I’m fairly sure that the majority of posters raging on in that thread only have mild distaste for religious parents, stereotypical iron handed Asian parents, etc. I have no idea on what basis you could be “fairly sure” what people "raging " – more misleading hyperbole because NO ONE is raging – would or would not think about completely unrelated scenarios. On what basis are you in their heads? Besides, I think that’s BS anyway; to the contrary (as several posters pointed out in the original thread), I think that if someone had posted that they kneel at their husband’s feet, obey his every word, and act as his “slave” for _religious_ reasons, they would have endured a shit-storm of significantly worse proportions. But many people on the STMB pride themselves on being open-minded and liberal, so since **freakalette’s** choice is is an “alternate lifestyle,” based on a sexual choice, then, gosh, we all have to be tolerant of that no matter how wrong-headed it may be insofar as her kids are concerned. And if **HazelNutCoffee** ever started a thread defending bad parenting on the grounds that it was a culturally Asian thing (not that she ever would), you can bet your left nut she’d be pitted too. > [@](#): > > On a final note, see WhyNot’s post in this thread (and my reply), which I assume you read, but you wanted to say what you think I was really saying anyway. Look, what you said in the OP is right up there for everyone to see, and it was NOT what **WhyNot** said. You didn’t say “people are generalizing their view of tickling as torture to the OP of the other thread” – although that would have been perfectly defensible anyway, given that the OP’er said she “HATED” it. YOU said “it really disturbs me that people are so insecure with their bodies and “roles” or whatnot that they can criticize something as simple as tickling” – as if all tickling is in all cases harmless and as if disagreeing with that reflected some personal “insecurity with [our] bodies.” You then cemented your over-generalization and the implication that we (the anti-ticklers _in these limited circumstances_) must mean innocent playful tickling by citing to your tickle-monster daddy, when you knew damn well that was not the sort of tickling we were objecting to. You are blatantly misrepresenting what people were objecting to, and you’re assigning reasonable objections with highly emotional motivations that are not at all supported by what anyone actually said. And you’re STILL doing it: You quote three eminently reasonable objections to the scenario **freakalette** related (by **Key Lime** , \*\*Una’/b], and **eleanor** ), and then you say “at least **Varloz** is being sane on the issue” – as if those other three posters’ objections were not “sane,” as if those of us who TOOK THE WOMAN AT HER WORD were wrong to do so – “insane,” “insecure”, and “raging.” You started a Pit thread to object to something NO ONE EVER SAID, and in order to defend your largely indefensible OP, you are mischaracterizing what was said and hyperbolizing the way it was said. It pisses me off because it’s fundamentally dishonest. Christ knows there’s enough people saying unreasonable, crazy, insulting things around here without trying to twist fundamentally defensible opinions into something worthy of a Pitting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-who-think-tickling-is-a-psychotic-act-of-dominance/442512.md?page=3)