# I pit people with kneejerk reactions against any "unnatural" solutions to real problems. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-with-kneejerk-reactions-against-any-unnatural-solutions-to-real-problems/762993 "2016-08-16T15:23:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-with-kneejerk-reactions-against-any-unnatural-solutions-to-real-problems/762993/21 "2016-08-18T21:44:50Z")
What would be neat is if you could engineer them for five things. [ol] [li]Female offspring are nonviable for one reason or another.[/li][li]Male offspring survive and are healthy.[/li][li]Male offspring all carry the modification.[/li][li]Male offspring are more aggressive maters and mate more often than their natural counterparts.[/li][li]Male offspring tend to wander further afield than their natural counterparts.[/li][/ol] I don’t know if some of those are even possible or how difficult they would be to engineer (or breed for). ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-with-kneejerk-reactions-against-any-unnatural-solutions-to-real-problems/762993/22 "2016-08-18T21:49:41Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > How is spraying an affected area not subject to the same problem (unless you’re spraying to also eliminate the local human vector, a solution most will find unacceptable)? 🙂 The reality is the human vector is the real problem in any epidemic/pandemic. Spraying one of any number of commercially available and long-studied larvicides/pesticides has similar short-term effects as the Oxitec solution on the local populations. The main question is sustainability and independence of action in the longer term for the cities/counties/states in the future. I wouldn’t advocate any public policy that ties these government entities to a single vendor/solution. In addition, many areas already have well developed mosquito control programs which can be ramped up more rapidly than a new one could be rolled out. > [@davidm](#): > > Obviously you’d combine any solution, including Oxitec’s, with attempts to eliminate standing water, encouraging repellent use. etc. Ultimately I’d like to see A. Aegypti eliminated from the Americas because it’s an invasive species, and tech like Oxitec’s(in combination with the methods above) is probably our best long-term hope for that. But for this use, at this time, I don’t think it’s the right public policy choice. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-with-kneejerk-reactions-against-any-unnatural-solutions-to-real-problems/762993/23 "2016-08-18T22:43:52Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > Eliminating standing water, wearing long sleeves/pants, avoiding dawn/dusk activities whenever possible, using insect repellent, screens on windows, properly sealed buildings, etc…I wouldn’t advocate any public policy that ties these government entities to a single vendor/solution. Why is it you believe that government agencies and private individuals would ignore all other methods of mosquito control if we took advantage of Oxitec’s GM mosquitoes? I’m reminded of objections to other genetically modified products, on the grounds that additional methods exist to produce healthier, less allergenic and more pest-resistant crops, or to produce purer and more effective medicines. This is often true, but why dismiss genetic modification techniques when they provide a significant part of the solution to a problem? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-with-kneejerk-reactions-against-any-unnatural-solutions-to-real-problems/762993/24 "2016-08-19T01:33:41Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > Again, I think it’s cool tech, and I think it has great potential in many ways. I just don’t think it’s the most cost effective and appropriate solution to this particular problem as a matter of public policy. > > Eliminating standing water, wearing long sleeves/pants, avoiding dawn/dusk activities whenever possible, using insect repellent, screens on windows, properly sealed buildings, etc. If policymakers are going to put the resources of the state behind a solution to mosquito-borne infections in the US then I think these are better bets than Oxitec’s GMO mosquitoes. Echoing Jackmannii, howzabout a layered defense strategy? And what’s the basis for saying that Oxitec won’t add benefits at the margin? And… even if Oxitec’s marginal benefits are somewhat under its marginal costs (assuming conventional techniques are applied as well) shouldn’t we want to do it anyway as a reward for past R&D? Presumably their tech will have wider applications after all. Look, I haven’t done the C/B myself. But I can’t see the basis for dismissing it out of hand. Of course the strongest objections are alluded to in the OP: Oxitec’s solution is [not natural](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-70976.html). ::d&r:: ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-with-kneejerk-reactions-against-any-unnatural-solutions-to-real-problems/762993/25 "2016-08-19T01:47:15Z")
Whether or not it actually makes sense as a solution is secondary to the point of my pitting. People were dismissing it out of hand for silly reasons, not because of any fact based analysis. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-with-kneejerk-reactions-against-any-unnatural-solutions-to-real-problems/762993/26 "2016-08-19T12:41:47Z")
“Kneejerk” my eye. We’ve got to foil those plans to release genetically modified mosquitoes, or we’ll wind up in a world like [this](https://www.facebook.com/standup911/photos/a.464945946948075.1073741828.464769626965707/947758542000144/?type=3&theater). :eek: ---
**Author:** ![edwards\_beard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@edwards\_beard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwards_beard)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-with-kneejerk-reactions-against-any-unnatural-solutions-to-real-problems/762993/27 "2016-08-19T13:21:03Z")
> [@mozchron](#): > > You don’t need to lecture me on this. > > I’m medical entomologist, molecular biologist and researcher who’s been working on _ **transgenic mosquitoes** _, symbionts, and control for over 15 years. I’ve known Luke (who just sold the company) and the rest of the Oxitec crew since 1999 (when it was just working in fruit flies). I worked on some of the early theoretical models for deploying the technology. I’ve worked on methods to combine it with other strategies for maximum effect. Bolding mine I apparently read things way too quickly as I first read this as “transgendger mosquitoes” ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-with-kneejerk-reactions-against-any-unnatural-solutions-to-real-problems/762993/28 "2016-08-19T14:09:10Z")
Fundamentally, these people are ignorant. They’ll decry pesticides and “chemicals” and all sorts of other things that are perceived as “unnatural”, yet they take advantage of plenty of other examples of just those things. For example, they all likely either drink plastic bottled tap water, or regular old chlorinated tap water. Both of which are examples of synthetic chemicals in action. Or they’ll take antibiotics when they’re sick, or use antifungal creams on their toes if they get athlete’s foot. But woe betide the farmer who wants to use pesticides on their crops- damn those “chemicals”! Or they’ll get bent out of shape about genetically modified food organisms, while having no problem with stuff like radiation breeding of plants or other similar techniques to essentially introduce random mutations into plants, in hopes of seeing what sticks and is beneficial. Somehow deliberately inserting a single gene into a specific place in a plant’s genome for insecticide resistance is a far greater sin than irradiating plants wholesale and seeing what happens “naturally”. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-with-kneejerk-reactions-against-any-unnatural-solutions-to-real-problems/762993/29 "2016-08-19T15:39:01Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Whether or not it actually makes sense as a solution is secondary to the point of my pitting. People were dismissing it out of hand for silly reasons, not because of any fact based analysis. Agreed. And I apologize for my part in taking the thread in a different direction. People who oppose or support this proposal on grounds of “it’s scary!” or “it’s cool!” both need to educate themselves and bring something more than their fears/hopes to the conversation. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-with-kneejerk-reactions-against-any-unnatural-solutions-to-real-problems/762993/30 "2016-08-19T17:42:04Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > Agreed. And I apologize for my part in taking the thread in a different direction. People who oppose or support this proposal on grounds of “it’s scary!” or “it’s cool!” both need to educate themselves and bring something more than their fears/hopes to the conversation. The only poster in this discussion who’s mentioned the “cool” tech factor is you, so I’m not sure what “people” you’re referring to. I would still like to know why you think adopting a program to release genetically modified mosquitoes in areas under Zika virus threat would mean abandoning all other methods of controlling mosquito-borne disease. Or does “taking the thread in a different direction” means “sorry gotta run Bye!”? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-with-kneejerk-reactions-against-any-unnatural-solutions-to-real-problems/762993/31 "2016-08-20T00:07:38Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > Agreed. And I apologize for my part in taking the thread in a different direction. People who oppose or support this proposal on grounds of “it’s scary!” or “it’s cool!” both need to educate themselves and bring something more than their fears/hopes to the conversation. > > Enjoy, > Steven Agreed. In contrast with Jackmannii, I see a fair amount of kneejerk “It’s cool” around, though not as much as “It’s scary”. > [@davidm](#): > > Whether or not it actually makes sense as a solution is secondary to the point of my pitting. People were dismissing it out of hand for silly reasons, not because of any fact based analysis. Well, there was one heuristic that was not mentioned. The original FB post was a sponsored post. And kneejerk reactions to corporate advertisements follow a reasonable heuristic. Which is unfortunate. I’m not sure what to do about this problem, but I might observe that it has never concerned the creators of such advertisements unduly. Silly objections are fully pitable though and fully consistent with the mission of this message board. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-with-kneejerk-reactions-against-any-unnatural-solutions-to-real-problems/762993/32 "2016-08-20T02:02:49Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The only poster in this discussion who’s mentioned the “cool” tech factor is you, so I’m not sure what “people” you’re referring to. > > I would still like to know why you think adopting a program to release genetically modified mosquitoes in areas under Zika virus threat would mean abandoning all other methods of controlling mosquito-borne disease. > > Or does “taking the thread in a different direction” means “sorry gotta run Bye!”? :dubious: Happy to discuss this in a different thread. Just decided I don’t want to hijack this one anymore. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-with-kneejerk-reactions-against-any-unnatural-solutions-to-real-problems/762993/33 "2016-08-20T04:35:27Z")
I’ve started a thread in GD. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19568458](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19568458) ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-with-kneejerk-reactions-against-any-unnatural-solutions-to-real-problems/762993/34 "2016-08-20T16:35:18Z")
> [@edwards\_beard](#): > > I apparently read things way too quickly as I first read this as “transgendger mosquitoes” I’m sick of hearing about trans mosquitoes… Sorry, wrong thread. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2016, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-with-kneejerk-reactions-against-any-unnatural-solutions-to-real-problems/762993/35 "2016-08-21T02:01:40Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I’ve started a thread in GD. > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19568458](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19568458) Apparently he didn’t want to “derail” that one either. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-people-with-kneejerk-reactions-against-any-unnatural-solutions-to-real-problems/762993.md?page=1)