# I pit Poverty and the current economic crisis **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 1, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487 "2009-01-01T18:38:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![FarmerChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@FarmerChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FarmerChick)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/221 "2009-01-02T11:54:07Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I knew a guy once who, after years of living the party lifestyle, got a great job with the phone company. He was working as an information operator and was getting paid $18 hr. plus tons of benefits and time off. He was doing a good job, his supervisors and co-workers loved him, and he felt the job was permanent. So he got a better apartment, a better car, some cool clothes and a permanent girlfriend. > > After six months came the time for the company to decide whether to make his employment permanent so a background check was run, which revealed a DUI that he had not put on his application. So he went from young man on the way up to instantly unemployed, and with virtually no chance of maintaining the lifestyle he’d graded himself up to. He lost his car, his apartment and his girlfriend, and wound up working in a convenience store. > > I doubt that he’d advise lying on your job app. You just never know when the truth will come back to bite you on the ass (and when it does, you can almost bet it will be at the worst possible time). There is a huge difference between putting down a friends address and a criminal act. The OP is looking for a job, any job, he is unskilled. It is highly unlikely that Burger King or WalMart really cares where he lives as long as it is close enough so he can get to work on time. That is the point of using the friends address, that plus he is moving to the city anyway. Common sense beats “ethics” every time. Not that some of the posters in this thread have any fucking common sense. Daft argumentative assholes. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/222 "2009-01-02T12:01:08Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Well, if they didn’t have disability insurance or savings then they took the risk of losing their job from injury or sickness and not being able to replace the income, so it is indeed their fault that they are in that situation. Ahh this folks is free marketism 101. Every possible thing is your fault. Doesn’t matter if preventing it would have cost more money then you have. Doesn’t matter if you start in a crappy place in life, or get stuck in a crappy place in life. Doesn’t matter if the economy crashed and you can’t find work. Doesn’t matter if you try to go to school and can’t. Doesn’t matter, you see they don their S&M suits and chant “suffer baby suffer you deserve it”. Then they fap to your misery. You see human ideas of compassion, helping your fellow out, and dealing with human frailties have no place in their hearts that are 3 sizes too small. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/223 "2009-01-02T13:15:29Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Ahh this folks is free marketism 101. Every possible thing is your fault. Doesn’t matter if preventing it would have cost more money then you have. Doesn’t matter if you start in a crappy place in life, or get stuck in a crappy place in life. Doesn’t matter if the economy crashed and you can’t find work. Doesn’t matter if you try to go to school and can’t. > > Doesn’t matter, you see they don their S&M suits and chant “suffer baby suffer you deserve it”. Then they fap to your misery. You see human ideas of compassion, helping your fellow out, and dealing with human frailties have no place in their hearts that are 3 sizes too small. I’ve found, as a general rule (though there are, of course, bound to be exceptions), that any poster with “Rand” in their username is going to be pretty much an asshole. It’s the Objectivist Way… ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/224 "2009-01-02T13:25:08Z")
Gotta say that it really is true that jobs are reluctant to hire people with non-local addresses. I’ve seen it on the inside. Resumes get chucked in the “no” pile just for having the wrong area code. And I used to get grilled about my unusual cell phone area code every time someone called me about a job, even though I was established in my new city. I don’t think it’s at all a breach of honesty to use local contact information. It’s just contact information. If that is a valid way to contact you, it counts. Just make sure you are upfront in the interview if your location is going to cause any problems. When lived in Oakland, a lot of people I knew got cell phones with San Francisco area codes just for the prestige of it. Does this make them all liars? But if this does ping your dishonesty meter, you can simply explain your situation (“I have signed a lease and will be moving to Doperville on the fifth of February”) in your cover letter. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/225 "2009-01-02T16:15:02Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Perhaps it was just a recent print edition, but last week I did indeed see paper editions of the local papers that were _without_ want ads. Perhaps they had ads on their website, but that did me little good while waiting outside for over an hour in the cold without access to computer as I waited _just to get in the door_ of the unemployment office. Perhaps someone had stolen the want ads from every copy of the paper at that newstand. All I know is that I couldn’t find a copy of the paper that had want ads in it. > . I just found a total of 2 help wanted ads in today’s dead tree edition of the Atlanta Journal and Constitution. That’s scary. ---
**Author:** ![Ed\_Zotti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/fbc32d/32.png) [@Ed\_Zotti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ed_Zotti)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/226 "2009-01-02T17:23:57Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Go beat up some six year olds or steal from blind people for your jollies. Fuck off and die. **Mod note:** Please don’t use an expression such as “fuck off and die” on the SDMB. I realize it’s not meant literally, and we have sometimes overlooked it, but it’s a technical violation of our rule against wishing death on someone, and we don’t want to get into the business of distinguishing rhetorical death wishes from real ones. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/227 "2009-01-02T17:36:24Z")
> [@FarmerChick](#): > > There is a huge difference between putting down a friends address and a criminal act. The OP is looking for a job, any job, he is unskilled. It is highly unlikely that Burger King or WalMart really cares where he lives as long as it is close enough so he can get to work on time. That is the point of using the friends address, that plus he is moving to the city anyway. > > Common sense beats “ethics” every time. Not that some of the posters in this thread have any fucking common sense. Daft argumentative assholes. Apparently it’s necessary to point out that I was talking about lying on a job application in the main (re **Fear Itself’s** post which appeared to be doing just that) as opposed to the specific minor instance of an address…unless of course subsequent information would come to light to reveal even that lie. Lying, to an employer, regardless of degree and if discovered, means that the employee is dishonest and therefore untrustworthy, that he/she will lie if necessary to further their own ends, and therefore it’s the lying itself that is the problem and not the relative severity of it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/228 "2009-01-02T17:40:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I hope the following doesn’t have a condescending flavor, or indeed any negative emotion at all, because it’s motivated by pure admiration: > > **even sven** , I remember your early threads in the early years, and frankly I can’t think of anyone who has matured and grown as well as you have. Your transformation in real life is something I can only guess at; here on the boards it’s nothing short of dramatic and well deserving of admiration and respect… which this post attempts in some poor measure to render. Seconded (or thirded, if we take **Sarahfeena** ’s reply), and I said something similar in the Pit thread directed at \*\*e.s. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/229 "2009-01-02T18:08:40Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Ahh this folks is free marketism 101. Every possible thing is your fault. Doesn’t matter if preventing it would have cost more money then you have. Doesn’t matter if you start in a crappy place in life, or get stuck in a crappy place in life. Doesn’t matter if the economy crashed and you can’t find work. Doesn’t matter if you try to go to school and can’t. > > Doesn’t matter, you see they don their S&M suits and chant “suffer baby suffer you deserve it”. Then they fap to your misery. You see human ideas of compassion, helping your fellow out, and dealing with human frailties have no place in their hearts that are 3 sizes too small. People are responsible for their own actions or inactions. Not sure how you extrapolate that simple principle into me being a fan of human misery. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/230 "2009-01-02T18:09:56Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I’ve found, as a general rule (though there are, of course, bound to be exceptions), that any poster with “Rand” in their username is going to be pretty much an asshole. It’s the Objectivist Way… To some of you idiots, failing to coddle a person that refuses to accept responsibility for their own actions is a jerkish asshole thing to do. To you people, I am proud to call myself a jerkish asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/231 "2009-01-02T18:12:26Z")
The fan of human misery things comes from the Ayn Rand meme. Oh, and your “fuck you, I got mine” flavor and your arrogance that the bad things can’t happen to you because… well, because you make good decisions so bad luck can’t touch you and it magically repels hurricanes, volcanic eruptions, and asteroids coming out of the sky. It’s not your belief in responsibility so much as your attitude towards the less fortunate. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/232 "2009-01-02T18:23:07Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > **Bricker** , do you really think **Broomstick** hasn’t tried her hardest to find employment? Does it make you feel better about yourself to dump all over her? Really, it seriously bothers me that you’re picking an argument with her but don’t have anything to say about **Rand Rover’s** ignorant ass. Why is it that a Christ-lover like you has nothing to say about his kind of jackassery (your quiet disapproval notwithstanding), but you’re more than happy to jump on someone who is dares to talk about her struggles with unemployment? **Rand Rover** ’s ignorant ass is simply offering opinions. They are, in my view, foolish and borne of lack of experience and lack of empathy. But they are not objectively wrong. **Broomstick** makes an objectively false claim to buttress sympathy for a job search. This bothers me, because it undercuts the real problems people – including **Broomstick** must face in job searches in tight economic times. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/233 "2009-01-02T18:28:59Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > **Broomstick** is poor. Anyone who has been paying attention to the boards knows her life sucks right now. > > Why pick a fight with her over a trivial comment? Even if it’s not true, why can’t **Bricker** just assume it was a hyperbolic statement or something said out of frustration and hopelessness, and just let it slide. Why can’t compassion and understanding ever supercede the juvenile urge to argue and be “right” all the time? Yeah, except (as I said above) a misunderstanding about a hyperbolic statement wouldn’t have gone on this long. At the first attempt to address it as literal, **Broomstick** would have responded, “I didn’t literally mean zero ads.. I meant no ads that I haven’t seen before or that I’m suited for or…” Instead, there’s an impassioned defense of the literal claim. So your question comes down to, “Even though **Broomstick** lied, repeatedly, don’t give a hard time, because, you know, poor and all.” And I’m sorry, but having been scary poor myself, I’m not able to see that excusing this sort of claim. So I will decline your invitation to let it go and not point out the lamentable mendacious excess of **Broomstick**. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/234 "2009-01-02T18:36:39Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The fan of human misery things comes from the Ayn Rand meme. Oh, and your “fuck you, I got mine” flavor and your arrogance that the bad things can’t happen to you because… well, because you make good decisions so bad luck can’t touch you and it magically repels hurricanes, volcanic eruptions, and asteroids coming out of the sky. > > It’s not your belief in responsibility so much as your attitude towards the less fortunate. Broomstick, you simply don’t understand what I’ve been saying in this thread and others. I don’t think that I can’t be hit by a catastrophe–I’m just saying I would respond to that catashtrophe by getting to work instead of bitching and moaning. And when others bitch and moan instead of getting to work, I get on their case. Search for the thread started by your new BFF Acid Lamp to see what I’m talking about in a more pure form than was presented in this thread. You also don’t understand what a “meme” is (it’s a single thought or idea–the entire work of an author can’t be a single meme). ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/235 "2009-01-02T18:45:15Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Broomstick, you simply don’t understand what I’ve been saying in this thread and others. I don’t think that I can’t be hit by a catastrophe–I’m just saying I would respond to that catashtrophe by getting to work instead of bitching and moaning. And when others bitch and moan instead of getting to work, I get on their case. Search for the thread started by your new BFF Acid Lamp to see what I’m talking about in a more pure form than was presented in this thread. > > You also don’t understand what a “meme” is (it’s a single thought or idea–the entire work of an author can’t be a single meme). Why do you get on their case? Honest question. You manner seems to make people defensive and angry, so if you think it’s for their own good, I think you are misguided–even when your insights are correct, your manner causes them to be rejected–along with any more constructively phrased advice, so you’re actually causing harm. I don’t see what benefit anyone gets from your actions–including yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/236 "2009-01-02T18:56:56Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Why do you get on their case? Honest question. You manner seems to make people defensive and angry, so if you think it’s for their own good, I think you are misguided–even when your insights are correct, your manner causes them to be rejected–along with any more constructively phrased advice, so you’re actually causing harm. I don’t see what benefit anyone gets from your actions–including yourself. I absolutely understand what you are saying and was thinking about this myself last night. First, I disagree that the target isn’t helped. An acerbic and confrontational tone is necessary to get through to some people, which is why it’s used in certain settings (see, e.g., boot camp). Second, I think that even if my manner of speaking turns off the direct target, other people that are reading may get some benefit from it. Maybe they are still formulating their thoughts on these issues and the different policy implications and political philosophies that result, so maybe I’ll help them see the light. Finally, the benefit I get from it is that apparently I’m kind of an asshole and I get my jollies from yelling at idiots. I like to get my RO on everyone once in a while like everyone else, and the types of people I rail against in these threads are apparently my favorite targets. Other people like to rail against bush or “the corporations” or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/237 "2009-01-02T18:58:33Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Broomstick, you simply don’t understand what I’ve been saying in this thread and others. I don’t think that I can’t be hit by a catastrophe–I’m just saying I would respond to that catashtrophe by getting to work instead of bitching and moaning. If you woke up blind tomorrow would you still be able to do the work you do today? If you were in a car accident and your neck was broken, leaving you paralyzed from the neck down, could you still do the work you do today? If you were in an accident and both your hands were amputated could you still do the work you do today? If you slipped and fell on an icy sidewalk and hit your head, causing brain damage that screwed up your ability to talk and remember things could you still do the work you do today? If a natural disaster (fire, flood, whatever) hit your home tomorrow and you lost _everything_ material you own, down to your ID and the cash in your pockets, do you not think that would have a serious lasting impact on you that would take years to recover from? Tell me how you, personally, are immune to all of the above. Do you have enough to support yourself _for the rest of your life?_ If the last event on that list happens, by the way, you won’t be able to cash in your disability insurance - you won’t be disabled, “just” homeless and lacking a lot of resources you’ve been accustomed to having, like a shower and toilet and a place to store food and spare clothing. > [@](#): > > And when others bitch and moan instead of getting to work, I get on their case. Who the fuck appointed you their parents? Tell me, do poor people have no right to moan or are they supposed to shut the fuck up and be happy peasants for the nobility such as yourself? > [@](#): > > You also don’t understand what a “meme” is (it’s a single thought or idea–the entire work of an author can’t be a single meme). Yes I do, Randroid. What I referred to was the oft-repeated bullshit vomited by Ayn Rand fans that one is somehow _totally_ in control of everything that happens in one’s life and that if something beyond your control happened, well, tough shit, you should have had the clairvoyance to avoid being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I realize that is not exactly what Ayn Rand’s work espouses, it’s just the dumbed-down version for kneejerk idiots such as yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/238 "2009-01-02T19:04:01Z")
Oh, and **Bricker** , just fucking give it a rest. I don’t know why you’re getting an obession with this supposed “lie” but it’s getting pathetic. Everyone else seems to understand what I said, what the fuck is your problem? Nevermind, don’t answer that. You’re trying to prove you have the bigger dick and you’re the better man. Well, as I am a woman you ARE the better man, but that’s a pretty low hurdle to clear, isn’t it? Congratulations. You’ve managed to step over a limbo bar. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/239 "2009-01-02T19:07:53Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > If you woke up blind tomorrow would you still be able to do the work you do today? > > If you were in a car accident and your neck was broken, leaving you paralyzed from the neck down, could you still do the work you do today? > > If you were in an accident and both your hands were amputated could you still do the work you do today? > > If you slipped and fell on an icy sidewalk and hit your head, causing brain damage that screwed up your ability to talk and remember things could you still do the work you do today? > > If a natural disaster (fire, flood, whatever) hit your home tomorrow and you lost _everything_ material you own, down to your ID and the cash in your pockets, do you not think that would have a serious lasting impact on you that would take years to recover from? > > Tell me how you, personally, are immune to all of the above. Do you have enough to support yourself _for the rest of your life?_ If the last event on that list happens, by the way, you won’t be able to cash in your disability insurance - you won’t be disabled, “just” homeless and lacking a lot of resources you’ve been accustomed to having, like a shower and toilet and a place to store food and spare clothing. Hey goof, by “get to work” I meant “take care of whatever I needed to take care of to get myself back together.” That is, I meant “work” in the life sense and not in the strict employment sense. In any event, I’m a lawyer so I could probably work with any physical impairement. A mental impairment would be a bummer. I have long-term disability insurance and health insurance and home insurance and a 401(k) and a taxable investment account and a money market savings account, all of which should cover the situations you described. You are still missing the larger point though, which is that if one of your imagined catastrophes occur then I’ll accept whatever responsibility I have for it occurring (if any) and get down to making my life back to what it is now. I’m not going to get all butt-hurt and post sad-sack woe-is-me pit threads. > [@](#): > > Yes I do, Randroid. What I referred to was the oft-repeated bullshit vomited by Ayn Rand fans that one is somehow _totally_ in control of everything that happens in one’s life and that if something beyond your control happened, well, tough shit, you should have had the clairvoyance to avoid being in the wrong place at the wrong time. \*\* I realize that is not exactly what Ayn Rand’s work espouses,\*\* it’s just the dumbed-down version for kneejerk idiots such as **yourself**. First bolded part: you’re sure right about that. Second bolded part: no u!!!1111!! ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/240 "2009-01-02T19:08:15Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I absolutely understand what you are saying and was thinking about this myself last night. > > First, I disagree that the target isn’t helped. An acerbic and confrontational tone is necessary to get through to some people, which is why it’s used in certain settings (see, e.g., boot camp). > > Second, I think that even if my manner of speaking turns off the direct target, other people that are reading may get some benefit from it. Maybe they are still formulating their thoughts on these issues and the different policy implications and political philosophies that result, so maybe I’ll help them see the light. > > Finally, the benefit I get from it is that apparently I’m kind of an asshole and I get my jollies from yelling at idiots. I like to get my RO on everyone once in a while like everyone else, and the types of people I rail against in these threads are apparently my favorite targets. Other people like to rail against bush or “the corporations” or whatever. I think you are less effective towards others than you think–in fact, I think it’s a negative because even when you make valid points, you do it in such a way that a person has to destroy their own dignity and self-respect to listen to your advice, the first premise of which is “you are a lazy fucking piece of shit”. This works in boot camp because people can’t walk away, and you can destroy their egos and build them back up into the shape you want them to be. However, in the outside world people can and do walk away when their basic worth and dignity are attacked, and they reject everything associated with it–i.e., whatever good insights you may have. Furthermore, other people’s more moderated advice is also rejected because it is perceived as being part of an attack. I don’t have a dog in this fight, but from where I sit, you do more harm than good. If it makes you happy to “get your jollies” that way, fine, but don’t deny being an asshole, or claim you are only an asshole by other people’s definitions. Taking pleasure from causing others pain fits any definition of an asshole. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487.md?page=13)