# I pit Poverty and the current economic crisis **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 1, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487 "2009-01-01T18:38:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/341 "2009-01-14T01:03:23Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > Holy shit, **Bricker** , > . . . > Again, your rhetorical criticism appeared reasonable at first. But your tone and demeanor has been appalling. Shame on you. I saw someone else on this message board do pretty much the same thing. . . beat down on someone long after the fight was gone. To my shame, I did nothing then and while I watched this one (and thought of comments to make), I didn’t say anything about this one either. And I didn’t because in both cases, the poster doing the beating was popular and I didn’t think my post would make a difference. I rationalized that people with power will do what people with power will do. Thanks **Alan Smithee** , for making this post. Perhaps the next time I’ll re-think about whether I should post when I see something like this again. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/342 "2009-01-14T05:08:30Z")
Everyone beating on Bricker, get fucked. Broomstick deserves everything she got and more. (“Everyting” meaning Bricker’s posts, not losing her job, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/343 "2009-01-14T05:27:29Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Broomstick deserves everything she got and more. That’s not in question. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/344 "2009-01-14T06:09:54Z")
Blarion, I’ve only read the first 200 or so posts, so forgive me if someone has suggested this, but you say you’re only 24, why not consider the military? Put in four years serving your country where your hots and a cot are provided, see if you can qualify for skilled training while in there, come out with something that looks good on your resume and possibly a whole new network of people to help you find a better job…it could solve many of your problems. If nothing else it would give you a place to lodge with your basic needs provided for for the next year or so while BHO’s proliferate deficit spending turns America into a 21st century utopia, jobs will surely be following you down the street begging you to fill them in just a couple of years. ---
**Author:** ![FarmerChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@FarmerChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FarmerChick)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/345 "2009-01-14T10:55:26Z")
I will say it again for the third time. Fucking lawyers. I will explain my comment just a bit. I know it’s a sweeping comment, and I’m sure it pisses some people off, but I’ve never met a lawyer yet that didn’t need to be “right” even when it’s wrong. They must win at all costs. So fuck them, stay in Great Debates and beat each other to death with your “cites” and last words. Assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/346 "2009-01-14T14:59:57Z")
Fucking farmers. They operate in an industry where it’s hard to make a profit each year, but no worries, they’ll just crow about the loss of the family farm at the hands of big agribusiness and get their handouts from the government. Anyone here mad about the wall street and detroit bailouts? Those are nothing compared to the years and years of farm subsidies. Hey Farmerchick, what are you being paid to not grow this year? How’s that bankruptcy proceeding going? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/347 "2009-01-14T15:06:49Z")
Do you eat food, Rand Rover? Or just venom and bile? Food is an essential. Our current system may not be the most efficient possible, but subsidizing it at provides something useful - as opposed to bailing out Wall Street and bankers who contribute jackshit that’s tangible and \*essential \*to life. Don’t like farmers, subsidies, and agri-business? Then be independent and grow your own damn food. Of course, that will leave you very little time for anything else. Like being a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/348 "2009-01-14T15:14:36Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Do you eat food, Rand Rover? Or just venom and bile? > > Food is an essential. Our current system may not be the most efficient possible, but subsidizing it at provides something useful - as opposed to bailing out Wall Street and bankers who contribute jackshit that’s tangible and \*essential \*to life. > > Don’t like farmers, subsidies, and agri-business? Then be independent and grow your own damn food. Of course, that will leave you very little time for anything else. Like being a lawyer. The subsidies I’m talking about are the ones given to the small farmers that cry about the loss of the family farm. So your post is as applicable and on point as all your others, which is not very. ---
**Author:** ![FarmerChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@FarmerChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FarmerChick)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/349 "2009-01-14T17:06:16Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Fucking farmers. They operate in an industry where it’s hard to make a profit each year, but no worries, they’ll just crow about the loss of the family farm at the hands of big agribusiness and get their handouts from the government. Anyone here mad about the wall street and detroit bailouts? Those are nothing compared to the years and years of farm subsidies. > > Hey Farmerchick, what are you being paid to not grow this year? How’s that bankruptcy proceeding going? > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > The subsidies I’m talking about are the ones given to the small farmers that cry about the loss of the family farm. So your post is as applicable and on point as all your others, which is not very. I wish, I am a small time, very small time Canadian farmer, I get nothing in the way of subsidies, my family is one of the original homesteaders, so we own our own land. Anything I have, I have earned, not a fucking thing has been given to me or my family. You have us confused with the big agro businesses ya fucking idiot. The small farmer get nothing but fucked unless they are smart enough to look after themselves. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/350 "2009-01-14T17:19:39Z")
> [@FarmerChick](#): > > I wish, I am a small time, very small time Canadian farmer, I get nothing in the way of subsidies, my family is one of the original homesteaders, so we own our own land. Anything I have, I have earned, not a fucking thing has been given to me or my family. You have us confused with the big agro businesses ya fucking idiot. I really hope that none of your neighbors encroaches on your land. And that none of your farm equipment malfunctions and injures you. And that none of your customers defaults with their payments. And that your province never needs to condemn any of your land. Because those situations might require you to hire one of the lawyers you hate so much. On the other hand, I do hope that someday, a developer offers you a ton of money for your land. Even though you will probably need a lawyer to help you with any ensuing deal. By the way, I’m curious: What products does your farm produce? ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/351 "2009-01-14T17:30:24Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > While it’s true that 2 people claiming to be lawyers have caused the trainwreck here, that’s unfair to all lawyers to characterize it so tersely. It’s not necessarily because they’re lawyers that this happened. It just so happens that they claim to be lawyers. Thank you. And **Bricker** , FWIW, you are in fact coming across as extremely nitpicking, beating a point to death that has no value outside this thread and very little relevance within it. I realize you disagree, and I only post this because if our positions were reversed and I were devoting my rhetorical resources to a point that struck you as petty, and doing so at such length as to seem almost vindictive, I hope you say something. Something like, “Dude, you made your point; let it go.” FWIW of course, feel free to ignore. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/352 "2009-01-14T18:00:52Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > Thank you. > > And **Bricker** , FWIW, you are in fact coming across as extremely nitpicking, beating a point to death that has no value outside this thread and very little relevance within it. I realize you disagree, and I only post this because if our positions were reversed and I were devoting my rhetorical resources to a point that struck you as petty, and doing so at such length as to seem almost vindictive, I hope you say something. Something like, “Dude, you made your point; let it go.” > > FWIW of course, feel free to ignore. I’m done. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/353 "2009-01-14T19:42:49Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > The subsidies I’m talking about are the ones given to the small farmers that cry about the loss of the family farm. So your post is as applicable and on point as all your others, which is not very. In actual fact, most of the subsidy dollars go to agribusiness. Farming is not something one can learn overnight from a book. The most successful farmers are those with _experience_ (just like in any other profession). Given the essential nature of food, keeping a reserve capacity makes some sense. If demand suddenly increases you want to be able to rapidly expand production and that may mean that in normal times you subsidize some “excess”. It’s no more foolish than having military reservists that may be called up on short notice. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/354 "2009-01-16T19:09:08Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Blarion, > > I’ve only read the first 200 or so posts, so forgive me if someone has suggested this, but you say you’re only 24, why not consider the military? Put in four years serving your country where your hots and a cot are provided, see if you can qualify for skilled training while in there, come out with something that looks good on your resume and possibly a whole new network of people to help you find a better job…it could solve many of your problems. If nothing else it would give you a place to lodge with your basic needs provided for for the next year or so while BHO’s proliferate deficit spending turns America into a 21st century utopia, jobs will surely be following you down the street begging you to fill them in just a couple of years. I have very serious moral objections to U.S foreign policy. Even with Barack Obama as President, I’d feel like I’d be tacitly endorsing what the U.S has done by joining the armed services. I resent the idea of our government preying upon the poor, who feel they have no other way to get ahead in life, sending them off in harms way to enrich fat cat defense contractors. Why should I have to put myself in a position where I might have to kill another human being, or be killed myself, simply to make a living? Is this the only government “jobs program” out there? If so, fuck that, I’m holding out for something better. If some want to scoff at me for rejecting the “lemonade recipe” (as **Rand Rover** so eloquently phrased it) offered then so be it. I won’t ignore my conscience just to make a buck. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/355 "2009-01-17T01:24:28Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > I saw someone else on this message board do pretty much the same thing. . . beat down on someone long after the fight was gone. To my shame, I did nothing then and while I watched this one (and thought of comments to make), I didn’t say anything about this one either. And I didn’t because in both cases, the poster doing the beating was popular and I didn’t think my post would make a difference. > > I rationalized that people with power will do what people with power will do. > > Thanks **Alan Smithee** , for making this post. Perhaps the next time I’ll re-think about whether I should post when I see something like this again. I retract my statement here and extend my full apologies to **Bricker**. When I saw the interaction between **Broomstick** and **Bricker** , it looked unseemly to me. It looked like **Bricker** was beating **Broomstick** senseless to the ground and was leaving no avenues of escape. While that may have been the case, it appears that the position appeals to some people because there’s no other way for me to make sense of [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=502125) with the same topic. My fault was in thinking that everyone thinks the same way that I do in not wanting to be in that position. Apparently, I’m wrong. Again, my apologies to **Bricker** for my mistaken assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/356 "2009-01-17T08:55:33Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > I have very serious moral objections to U.S foreign policy. Even with Barack Obama as President, I’d feel like I’d be tacitly endorsing what the U.S has done by joining the armed services. I resent the idea of our government preying upon the poor, who feel they have no other way to get ahead in life, sending them off in harms way to enrich fat cat defense contractors. Why should I have to put myself in a position where I might have to kill another human being, or be killed myself, simply to make a living? Is this the only government “jobs program” out there? If so, fuck that, I’m holding out for something better. > > If some want to scoff at me for rejecting the “lemonade recipe” (as **Rand Rover** so eloquently phrased it) offered then so be it. I won’t ignore my conscience just to make a buck. Well, that leaves you in a spot, doesn’t it? You’re not willing to “pound the pavement” to find a job, the military is out because of your delicate sensibilities (and isn’t it good for you that hundreds of thousands of men and women were willing to give selflessly of themselves so you have the luxury of spitting on their service), and all you want is give, give, give me a living. The real world doesn’t work that way, Chester. You had plans to get an education and better yourself. Those plans fell through. That’s unfortunate, it really sucks, and I actually DO feel for you, but my question to you is this: What are you going to do with your life now? You can buckle down and make life work for you, or you can give up and bitch because things don’t work out as planned and wait for other people to give you things that you haven’t earned. It seems to me, based upon your posts in this thread, that you are choosing the later. I have a fairly descent middle class life, a wife, 2 kids, a house with a white picket fence around it. I’m happy. But…if I lost the job that supports that, and was thrown out of my comfortable employment, I would work 8 hours a day as a fry cook and 8 other hours a day as a ditch digger if that’s what it took. It’s all about working for what you get. In you I see an entitlement mentality, and I’m here to tell you that waiting for what you feel entitled to is a losers game. Go out. Seize the day. MAKE YOUR LIFE HAPPEN. That way lies happiness. Here endeth the lesson. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/357 "2009-01-17T17:54:24Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Well, that leaves you in a spot, doesn’t it? You’re not willing to “pound the pavement” to find a job, the military is out because of your delicate sensibilities (and isn’t it good for you that hundreds of thousands of men and women were willing to give selflessly of themselves so you have the luxury of spitting on their service), and all you want is give, give, give me a living. I expected I’d be called an unappreciative punk kid for my response. Just believe me when I say I’ve done extensive reading on the history of U.S foreign policy, and I can’t in good conscience condone it. I understand we do need a military in order to continue to exist as a nation-state with the freedoms we currently enjoy. But the money we expend on the military is FAR in excess of what’s necesary to actually defend the country. I weep for the lost opportunity cost of what we could have spent that money on but didn’t. > [@](#): > > The real world doesn’t work that way, Chester. You had plans to get an education and better yourself. Those plans fell through. That’s unfortunate, it really sucks, and I actually DO feel for you, but my question to you is this: What are you going to do with your life now? You can buckle down and make life work for you, or you can give up and bitch because things don’t work out as planned and wait for other people to give you things that you haven’t earned. It seems to me, based upon your posts in this thread, that you are choosing the later. I am continuing to search for a new job. I have a friend who is selling me his car for a very reasonable price, so the transportation issue will eventually be resolved. Now if only my current job would give me enough hours so I could live above the “deep poverty” line… I could afford the car insurance! :smack: At this point, it’s not so much a matter of “how” I’m going to change things as it is a matter of “when” I’ll be able to implement the plans. ---
**Author:** ![dre2xl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@dre2xl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dre2xl)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/358 "2009-01-17T18:22:11Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > I have very serious moral objections to U.S foreign policy. Even with Barack Obama as President, I’d feel like I’d be tacitly endorsing what the U.S has done by joining the armed services. I resent the idea of our government preying upon the poor, who feel they have no other way to get ahead in life, sending them off in harms way to enrich fat cat defense contractors. Why should I have to put myself in a position where I might have to kill another human being, or be killed myself, simply to make a living? Is this the only government “jobs program” out there? If so, fuck that, I’m holding out for something better. > > If some want to scoff at me for rejecting the “lemonade recipe” (as **Rand Rover** so eloquently phrased it) offered then so be it. I won’t ignore my conscience just to make a buck. Well, if it helps… I’m privately employed, and my base salary is 6 digits. As an O3, my husband used to take more home than I ever did, before marriage (even when I’m not contributing to my 401k), plus his benefits are ridiculous. The fact that so much of the pay is tax-free makes a huge, huge difference. On top of that, the benefits are ridiculous. He will be able to get a pension after only 20 years of service, the pension is COLA-adjusted, and health care for both of us. I don’t remember what I calculated I’d have to save to live independently on the equivalent of that pension, but it was well over 2 million dollars, not including the healthcare expenditures (which probably would push it over 3 millions in savings). The military is a great way to break into the upper middle class. If you abhor fighting, there are corps like NOAA or Coast Guard. NOAA in particular is always lacking recruits because everyone wants to be Hurricane Hunters and no one wants to do the plain vanilla boat deployments. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/359 "2009-01-17T20:38:38Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Well, that leaves you in a spot, doesn’t it? You’re not willing to “pound the pavement” to find a job, the military is out because of your delicate sensibilities (and isn’t it good for you that hundreds of thousands of men and women were willing to give selflessly of themselves so you have the luxury of spitting on their service) I suspect he would have less of an issue with it if those men and women were usually actually protecting his freedom or involved in other noble endeavours instead of being generally used to defend some blurry geo-political policy or protect some business interest or another. I’m a conscientious objector. And I wouldn’t be if I had a high level of confidence that my country’s military would only be used for morally sound enterprises. But reading history books and watching the news disabused me of this silly notion. “The brave men risking their lives to defend your freedom” exist only in your local “department of national propaganda” files except once every century or so (at which point you always have the option to enlist). ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/360 "2009-01-17T20:46:48Z")
And being reluctant to kill and being killed (for whatever reason crossed the mind of the current First Penguin) isn’t exactly the same as “having delicate sensibilities”. We’re not talking about “My god! I could get a stain on my silk gloves!” here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487.md?page=19)