# I pit Poverty and the current economic crisis **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 1, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487 "2009-01-01T18:38:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/81 "2009-01-02T01:05:15Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > No we didn’t. Unless I missed something, **Sateryn** did not say he was looking at the same paper **Broomstick** was using. He just said it was a local paper _somewhere_ in NW Indiana. It may or may not be anywhere near where **Broomstick** actually lives - unless **Sateryn** has some extra knowledge of **Broomstick’s** actual address which he hasn’t brought to the thread. \*\*Broomstick \*\*and I both live in Northwest Indiana. There are only two major papers in this area - The Hammond Times and the Gary Post-Tribune. There are a handful of local town papers, but they are not much more than ads and pictures of the Rotary Club. I obviously can’t scan and post the actual classifieds for our local papers, but their jobs sections are quite large. I linked to their websites - unfortunately, because of an attempt to control costs, they are both hooked up with larger web companies. The Post-Tribune is with the Chicago Sun Times, and the Times has now apparently joined the Yahoo jobs site. The Times jobs I linked to are for one town in the area - Munster. You can search by zip code for others. I tried Gary as well, and there were two pages worth of jobs. The Post-Tribune has always had a crappy website, but I note that they have seven “new” jobs posted, and it is my understanding those run by the day. So, today, seven new jobs were added to their job database. As I said, the actual classified job section is big, and even bigger on “employment” day, which I believe is Wednesday. \*\*Broomstick \*\*has had a crappy run of luck, and I appreciate her position. However, I am always wondering about those who say “There are no jobs” and it turns out there are many jobs, just not ones that they want or like. I was not taught that jobs need to conform to my wants and needs, but that I must change to meet the limits of the job. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/82 "2009-01-02T01:05:37Z")
> [@FarmerChick](#): > > Wow. Are you drunk or just a tool? Are you really a farmer? Usually those types of folks are big on personal responsibility and bootstraps and whatnot. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/83 "2009-01-02T01:06:55Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > You do not know what the OP has or has not done, or why. He knows that the OP has posted a Pit thread, and that the OP has posited a causal relationship between the current state of the economy and the fiscal fix he finds himself in today. I agree, its a very thin nail upon which to hang an argument that the OP is a slacking-off fuckup who doesn’t merit any moral support from the rest of us. But you surely didn’t think his handle is a random string of characters that just happens to be pronounceable as two discrete words, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/84 "2009-01-02T01:07:45Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > **Sateryn** actually did give the paper editions he was looking at which, although _near_ my location are not \*precisely \*my location. That, too, might also account for why the paper copy I picked up did not have want ads and his did, as they might have been targeted towards a particular edition of the paper for some reason. I hadn’t though of that, frankly it did not occur to me that with locations grouped fairly close together that that might happen but perhaps it is. I will have to investigate this more thoroughly. I am willing to travel 40 or 50 miles for a job with a paycheck I can live on but some employers may be assuming otherwise and thus not listing as widely as I might have thought they would. Hey Broomstick, how far north of Chicago would 40 or 50 miles from your house put you? ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/85 "2009-01-02T01:08:34Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I’ll never find myself in the position of not being able to find a job. You know why? I’ve worked my ass off since I learned to walk and I have developed skills and experience that are in high demand. So I’m not going to pat some loser on the head when he hasn’t gone to college and complains about not being able to find work as an unskilled laborer. > > You can wish for the same thing as the OP to happen to me all you want but it won’t because I’ve made it impossible. I may at some point have to take a job that pays less than my current job (or less than I’m making at that point), but I won’t be on the streets. What indispensable skills do you have that ensure you will NEVER go without a job? Garbage man? I mean, I can’t think of much else that will ALWAYS and FOREVER be in high demand. There always has to be someone to clean up everyone else’s crap, right? Seriously though. Famous last words, buddy. Never say never, blah blah, etc. You are a cocky judgmental jerk - what you’re basically saying is that anyone who cannot find a job must be a lazy loser, because after all if they “worked their ass off” like you, or “gone to college” like you, they would NEVER be unemployed, right? Bullshit. That is seriously insulting to all the bright, experienced, talented, educated people out there who lost their jobs through no fault of their own and are having trouble finding work. I hope some of them come in here and call you out on your bullshit. And p.s., Mr. Awesome, the whole point of the OP is that he IS trying to gain the skills and education to become indispensable like you - he is about to start higher education - but how the hell is he supposed to pay for it and support himself if he can’t find a motherfucking job?? Go back and read the OP, it says he is “go back to (community) college and get an education, and to improve my station in life.” So exactly how is anyone supposed to do that if they can’t find work?!!! ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/86 "2009-01-02T01:09:33Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > For instance, if someone says “Each and every day I eat 4 calories and work out for three hours, but I still can’t lose weight,” do you think that it’s more likely that this person is lying or that they are one of the very few people with an actual medical problem that could cause that to be the case? No, because this claim is actually, physically impossible. That the OP is in a bad spot despite some good decisions is not (and please, don’t pretend that all the decisions you ever made have been good ones. No one makes _all_ the right decisions.) And, actually, I do consider it somewhat likely, at worst, not all that unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/87 "2009-01-02T01:10:54Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > First of all, the only link provided that goes directly to the want ads lists **SEVEN** , which is _hardly_ “pages and pages” - who’s exaggerating now? Yes, the only link that goes DIRECTLY to the want ads lists seven. And the other link – the one that you have to do a few more things, like specify a search area – has more than seven. But why do you feel this discussion should limit itself to the only link that goes directly to the want ads? If you’re serious about looking hard, leaving no stone unturned, I have to say that clicking an extra link or two isn’t all that onerous a prospect. And in any event, my criticism was your “NO, repeat NO” want ads for “weeks and weeks” claim. You still stand by that one, do you? > [@](#): > > Second - there appears to be a difference between the hardcopy papers and the paper’s website. Silly me - I’ve been looking in the _hardcopy_ for the want ads! Nevermind I never saw anything that said “sorry - we’ve moved all our want ads to the internet. If you don’t know that, or don’t have an internet connection, you’re fucked! Ha-ha!” Yeah, except that I can bring my Monk-like powers of deductive reasoning to the fore and conclude that you in fact have an internet connection. So I’m not inclined to commiserate with you over the need for an internet connection. > [@](#): > > Fine, call me a liar, say it’s all my fault, it’s still the party line that the poor are poor because they choose to be poor and deserve to suffer. I’ve been hearing it for decades, and even more since I was laid off because management decided to eliminate wholesale an entire job category and not because of a conduct problem. That couldn’t _possibly_ happen to any of the privileged characters who enjoy pissing on people going through a hard time. After all, if it’s _not_ the poor peoples’ fault then - OMG! - _you_ might one day have bad luck yourself! [/quote] Don’t put words in my mouth. I didn’t say that all poor are poor because they choose to be poor. I said YOU, specifically, don’t strike me as someone who is really looking with every fiber of your being, since you couldn’t find a single want ad. In fact, I feel quite sorry for those who are really victims of circumstance, because you’re trying to ride on their coattails, when your problem is lack of competence or lack of desire. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/88 "2009-01-02T01:11:01Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > He knows that the OP has posted a Pit thread, and that the OP has posited a causal relationship between the current state of the economy and the fiscal fix he finds himself in today. > > I agree, its a very thin nail upon which to hang an argument that the OP is a slacking-off fuckup who doesn’t merit any moral support from the rest of us. > > But you surely didn’t think his handle is a random string of characters that just happens to be pronounceable as two discrete words, do you? Thanks for the support (that was support, right? 😉 ). Also, everyone, I’m still soaking wet over here (not sure how I got this way either), so I’d appreciate any and all suggestions for getting out of this unfortunate situation. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/89 "2009-01-02T01:12:43Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > But you surely didn’t think his handle is a random string of characters that just happens to be pronounceable as two discrete words, do you? I’m not sure what this is supposed to mean; I haven’t given any thought at all to his username one way or the other. I just think he’s a douchebag. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/90 "2009-01-02T01:12:56Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > You are a cocky judgmental jerk Flattery will get you everywhere. 😉 Also, to respond to you edit-- STOOOODENT LOOOOAAAANS people! ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/91 "2009-01-02T01:13:50Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Also, everyone, I’m still soaking wet over here (not sure how I got this way either), so I’d appreciate any and all suggestions for getting out of this unfortunate situation. I hear vacuum drying is very effective. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/92 "2009-01-02T01:13:57Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > Yes, that’s what I’m saying. It’s also possible to end up with a great career despite having made a whole shitload of bad decisions. Life’s funny that way. Sure is. I dropped out of college in 1979, left the Navy after only eleven years (no pension for that), lost three (frankly just south of adequate) jobs, worked three other _way_ south of adequate jobs, and spent three years unemployed in the seventeen years since, and six years after I completed my application, got a career-level craft position in the Postal Service. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/93 "2009-01-02T01:14:54Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Also, to respond to you edit-- STOOOODENT LOOOOAAAANS people! Not everyone can qualify for those. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/94 "2009-01-02T01:15:49Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Also, to reiterate, I never castigated the OP for not going to college. I castigated the OP for not doing anything to better himself (college being just one example). You don’t know anything about the OP’s history, and yet you feel free to assume that his situation is caused by his own failings. And the only example you give is contradicted by the very content of the OP. > [@](#): > > Finally, as a French person, you are probably constitutionally incapable of understanding concepts such as personal responsibility and all that, so you get a pass. Indeed. I’m constitutionally allowed to be eating foie gras and drinking champagne between two posts despite a boatload of poor decisions in my life. There’s no constitutional provisions preventing me from understanding that some people can be eating noodles despite a boatload of good decisions, though. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/95 "2009-01-02T01:16:24Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > I’m not sure what this is supposed to mean; I haven’t given any thought at all to his username one way or the other. > > I just think he’s a douchebag. OMG. Mr. GQ answer man doesn’t know what my username could possibly be referring to? Perhaps you should . . . ok I won’t say it . . . 😛 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/96 "2009-01-02T01:16:25Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > I’m not sure what this is supposed to mean; I haven’t given any thought at all to his username one way or the other. Look up Ayn. ---
**Author:** ![dre2xl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@dre2xl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dre2xl)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/97 "2009-01-02T01:16:44Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Yeesh. These responses are like the thyroid people in the fat threads (i.e., there’s a small group of people that have every possible obstacle in their way so that gives everyone else a free pass because they could have had one or more of those same obstacles in their way). Look, I’m a heartless capitalist bitch, but I’m not blind to the fact that criticism of the victim is often a way of reassuring himself or herself that the misfortune can never happen to himself or herself. That’s what a lot of this thread has been about; you aren’t criticizing lazy unskilled workers or fat people; you’re reassuring yourself that you’ll never land in poverty or become fat, at the expense of others. OP is perhaps not exercising full creativity in job seeking, but unemployment can happen to anyone, period. Very, very few people have the priorities and education and self-discipline to be able to plan for and survive unemployment, and by the fearful tone in your posts, I’d wager that you aren’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/98 "2009-01-02T01:17:58Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > Not everyone can qualify for those. You got a cite for that? I’m pretty sure that every swingin’ dick (or whatever) can get some form of loan to go to school. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/99 "2009-01-02T01:18:59Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > I hear vacuum drying is very effective. My vacuum don’t suck, but it needs a new hose. I blame Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/100 "2009-01-02T01:19:59Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > OMG. Mr. GQ answer man doesn’t know what my username could possibly be referring to? Perhaps you should . . . ok I won’t say it . . . 😛 If this is serious criticism, I feel it’s misplaced. If your name werre “John Galt” or “Dagny Taggert” or “A. Rand” then I think it’s fair to say a well-read person should twig immediately to the reference. But “Rand Rover” doesn’t immediately bring Ayn Rand to mind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487.md?page=6)