# I pit Poverty and the current economic crisis **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 1, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487 "2009-01-01T18:38:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/161 "2009-01-02T03:00:59Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > \*\*Brickner, \*\*I am no longer playing this game with you where you ask me a question and you shit on my answer. I do not have to make you privy to any more of my life than I already have. You have already decided I’m a horrible person and you are entitled to your opinion no matter how wrong it is. No doubt you will accuse me of being evasive or whatever, but I chose not to have every choice and decision in my life nitpicked by an internet asshole, nor do I need to account to you for every moment of my day or every day of my week. > > Go beat up some six year olds or steal from blind people for your jollies. Fuck off and die. Or better yet, be unemployed and homeless and begging for food in soup kitchens. Translation: I can’t come up with any more dodges that are remotely credible, and I’m still unwilling to admit my original exaggeration, so I’ll flounce off in a huff. That was a tactic transparent in elementary school. Do you really think it will have much traction here? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/162 "2009-01-02T03:02:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, none of the Lake County unemployment offices are open [Saturday](http://www.in.gov/dwd/WorkOne/regions/region1.html), so I assume you weren’t there then. But the [Lake County library system](http://www.lakeco.lib.in.us/location.htm) has several branches that ARE open Saturday. The Central branch is a mere five miles from the Crown Point unemployment office. The Crown Point Work One site does not process inter-state unemployment claims. I wish it did - it’s a hell of a lot closer to me and much less crowded. I have to go to Hammond because of the nature of my claim. I’ve already mentioned going to the library, I fail to see where you think you are pointing it out to me for the first time. Not only did you fail to mention the many other branches of the Lake County library, it apparently also escaped you that they have _Sunday_ hours as well, which I know from having spent many hours there. In other words, asshat, I already knew that and have been taking advantage of it. Once again, you demonstrate that your only purpose here is to piss on me. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/163 "2009-01-02T03:03:11Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Ahem. The grown-ups are having a conversation about people not being able to find work or not liking their jobs or their hours being cut, etc., not about random acts that the victim obviously has no control over. Or are you saying that if someone is unemployed or underemployed for a long period of time then that is exactly like an airplane hitting their house? No, it was a deliberate absurdity to underscore the point. Fact is, things can happen to put a person in dire straits which are beyond his control. It can even happen to you, your claims to the contrary notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/164 "2009-01-02T03:05:33Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I’m pretty sure that every swingin’ dick (or whatever) can get some form of loan to go to school. You got a cite for _that_? I doubt it. Most student loans I know of (ones I have gotten and that family and friends have gotten) won’t pay for the entire cost of tuition, much less living expenses. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/165 "2009-01-02T03:05:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Translation: I can’t come up with any more dodges that are remotely credible, and I’m still unwilling to admit my original exaggeration, so I’ll flounce off in a huff. Hardly. I’m still here, not fluffing and huffing. I simply refuse to rise to your bait and give you more opportunity to piss on me and my efforts. Nothing I say will change your opinion, that is obvious, so why should I bother? See above post with your condescending and sneering jibe about Lake County library hours when I had previously mentioned many, many times that I have spent time at the library. You’re just looking for new ways to shit on me. Go shit in a toilet like a decent human being instead on other people less fortunate than you. ---
**Author:** ![MadPansy64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@MadPansy64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadPansy64)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/166 "2009-01-02T03:06:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Which makes me all the more irked at the over-the-top claims **Broomstick** made. Times are tough, and there’s enough real obstacles to discuss without either fabricating or admitting that you’re too unimaginative to figure out how it is that weeks and weeks of papers have no want ads at all. Could you consider that, perhaps, the claim “no want ads” could have been not rigorously defined as an empty column in help wanted section, but more loosely defined as a “7 scams, 13 I’ve already applied for along with 300 other people, 5 that have local phone numbers but are actually for picking fruit half a continent away, 1 guy who can’t get help because his payroll checks bounce, 3 ads seeking doctoral degrees with 10 years experience, and one for a whorehouse piano player with a good work ethic” variety of none? Where I am, right now (my location varies), in a weirdly healthy local micro-economy, there are three columns of print ads. Skilled oil field (75+ miles from town) help, a half dozen highly specialized professional positions, out of state unskilled labor, 2 phone sales, 1 snow plow mechanic, and 7 part time fast food opportunities. It takes 4 hours, a couple bucks worth of stamps, and those same listings, tomorrow, turn into “NO want ads.” The pre-Xmas sunday paper has an additional “make money at home” ad, but is essentially the same. PM me your snail mail address, and I will mail you a hard copy as my cite. I hope that next Sundays paper has boatloads of viable leads to prove me wrong, but you probably ought not hold your breath. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/167 "2009-01-02T03:08:46Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > No, it was a deliberate absurdity to underscore the point. Fact is, things can happen to put a person in dire straits which are beyond his control. It can even happen to you, your claims to the contrary notwithstanding. Here’s the point you and lots of others have missed this whole thread. Of course something bad (like losing a job) can happen to anyone and could happen to me. The difference between me and some people (like Acid Lamp) is that I would (i) think “well goddammit” and (ii) find a new job. I wouldn’t wallow in my poor fate and have all sorts of excuses why the fact I haven’t found a job in months isn’t my fault. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/168 "2009-01-02T03:10:19Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Ahem. The grown-ups are having a conversation about people not being able to find work or not liking their jobs or their hours being cut, etc., not about random acts that the victim obviously has no control over. So… people who lose their jobs to illness, outsourcing, company bankruptcy, or disabling injury are… somehow in _control_ of those circumstances? What are you saying? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/169 "2009-01-02T03:10:27Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > You got a cite for _that_? I doubt it. Most student loans I know of (ones I have gotten and that family and friends have gotten) won’t pay for the entire cost of tuition, much less living expenses. Are you asking for a cite for the claim that I am pretty sure about something? Man, I’m not sure how to respond to that. I do assure you, though, that I am most certainly pretty sure. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/170 "2009-01-02T03:11:09Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > What are you, fucking Yoda? Fuck off, moron. How does one “try” to go to college? I guess if you can’t google it, there is no answer. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/171 "2009-01-02T03:11:25Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The Crown Point Work One site does not process inter-state unemployment claims. I wish it did - it’s a hell of a lot closer to me and much less crowded. I have to go to Hammond because of the nature of my claim. > > I’ve already mentioned going to the library, I fail to see where you think you are pointing it out to me for the first time. Not only did you fail to mention the many other branches of the Lake County library, it apparently also escaped you that they have _Sunday_ hours as well, which I know from having spent many hours there. > > In other words, asshat, I already knew that and have been taking advantage of it. Once again, you demonstrate that your only purpose here is to piss on me. So you attempt to put me in my place my pointing out that you’ve had even MORE opportunities to find want ads, and yet were unable to? I don’t want to tell you how to present your case, but I have to say this current tack isn’t the most effective one. You started out claiming that there were no want ads. In fact, you made the effort of saying “…repeat NO” ads “for weeks,” to underscore the incredible paucity of ads with which you were faced. Now we’ve shown that there are two papers, both of which have ads, and we’ve further shown (in part from your own post above) that there were plenty of opportunities to get to these ads. My only purpose isn’t to piss on you. My purpose is to rebut the ridiculous claim you made. The moment you say something along the lines of, “OK, obviously there ARE plenty of ads, but my problem with them is X…” then I’m out of the picture. I have no idea what your skill set is and what your requirements are. For all I know, every single ad is insufficient for a very justifiable reason. But you couldn’t say that. No, no – it has to be “no ads” for “weeks” that you’re facing. That’s such obvious horseshit – of COURSE you’re gonna get called on it. And in doing, your fake crisis sullies poor **Blaron** , who, so far as I can tell, is having a legitimate crisis. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/172 "2009-01-02T03:12:19Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > So… people who lose their jobs to illness, outsourcing, company bankruptcy, or disabling injury are… somehow in _control_ of those circumstances? What are you saying? Well, if they didn’t have disability insurance or savings then they took the risk of losing their job from injury or sickness and not being able to replace the income, so it is indeed their fault that they are in that situation. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/173 "2009-01-02T03:15:52Z")
> [@MadPansy64](#): > > Could you consider that, perhaps, the claim “no want ads” could have been not rigorously defined as an empty column in help wanted section, but more loosely defined … Maybe – certainly that’s more defensible than no ads at all. But here’s the thing. When a person writes, “There are no ads,” I might go along with your idea. When a person writes “NO, repeat NO ads” then I have to conclude that the extra keystrokes are there for a reason. And even then – even if that’s not the case, at the first criticism of the phrase, the honest person writes “Well, i didn’t literally mean no ads. I meant 7 scams, 13 I’ve already applied for along with 300 other people, 5 that have local phone numbers but are actually for picking fruit half a continent away…” The fact that **Broomstick** has instead piled circumstance upon circumstance to defend the original, literal claim suggests your view isn’t the right one. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/174 "2009-01-02T03:19:42Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > How does one “try” to go to college? I guess if you can’t google it, there is no answer. Well, you dumb cunt, you need only READ THIS VERY OP to learn how one “tries” to go to college. [ul] [li]One plans, months in advance, to find roommates near the college they want to attend (possibly the closest one they’re eligible to be accepted)[/li][li]One then starts looking for jobs in that area, so that when he moves, he has a way to support himself while attending college[/li][li]One continues to utilize the resources at their disposal – friends with cars to drive him to places to apply, scouring the internet and the newspapers for jobs, walking into places in person to ask for work, etc.[/li][/ul] These are the things **responsible people** do **BEFORE** accepting responsibility for rent-sharing with friends and potentially leaving them holding the bill, or applying for classes without the means to pay the tuition or buy the books or materials to participate. Dumbass. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/175 "2009-01-02T03:23:15Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Well, if they didn’t have disability insurance or savings then they took the risk of losing their job from injury or sickness and not being able to replace the income, so it is indeed their fault that they are in that situation. So… if… hypothetically a 20 year old in is college surviving on student loans and burger-flipping they’re supposed to have savings and disability insurance to protect them from the drunk driver who runs them down on the sidewalk as they are walking to the bus to go home and leaves them unable to work? The nice young men and women going to Iraq who get blown up or shot in the head leaving poorly functioning are irresponsible for not having a lifetime’s worth of money in the bank to care for them and their families? While there are irresponsible people in this world, a lot of those less fortunate than you were responsible people that bad things happened to. But do continue in your fantasy land that if only everyone were good, responsible people nothing bad would ever happen to them. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/176 "2009-01-02T03:26:55Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > So… if… hypothetically a 20 year old in is college surviving on student loans and burger-flipping they’re supposed to have savings and disability insurance to protect them from the drunk driver who runs them down on the sidewalk as they are walking to the bus to go home and leaves them unable to work? The nice young men and women going to Iraq who get blown up or shot in the head leaving poorly functioning are irresponsible for not having a lifetime’s worth of money in the bank to care for them and their families? > > While there are irresponsible people in this world, a lot of those less fortunate than you were responsible people that bad things happened to. But do continue in your fantasy land that if only everyone were good, responsible people nothing bad would ever happen to them. I didn’t say they are “supposed to” have disability insurance or savings. If they don’t then they are assuming the risk that comes along with that. I’d venture that most people without families that depend on their income are willing to assume the very small risk of them not being able to work in any capacity for the rest of their lives. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/177 "2009-01-02T03:28:17Z")
So tell me HOW someone 20 years old, or 22 years old could be able to afford disability insurance or have a wad of money in the bank… short of coming from a wealthy background and much family assistance? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/178 "2009-01-02T03:33:54Z")
**Blalron** don’t let these guys get you down. The pit is a crappy place to look for sympathy. For some reason these threads bring out the worst in people. I’ve been on the receiving end of this kind of thing before, at the absolute worst time in my life. It sucks. But there is some truth in what they are saying underneath all their negative emotions. This isn’t a problem with no solution. You can beat this. It will not be comfortable and it will take work. But you have to do it one way or another. But you can’t think of yourself as a loser. People can see right through that and will never hire you as long as you even have a hint of this attitude. Best to get over the self-pity ASAP and do what it takes. It’s going to have to happen at some point, might as well make it happen now. Go out there expecting to get what you want, and you will eventually get it. I’ll give you some advice, from someone who knows the place you are in well: [ol] [li] **Buy a copy of “What Color is your Parachute”** It’s cheesy and from the self-help aisle, but this book changed my career. It taught me exactly why I wasn’t finding jobs even though I was sending off thousands of resumes. It gave me confidence. It taught me how to write a real resume. And it even helped me refine my goals in life. Do what it takes to get a copy of this book. [/li][li] **Try something crazy.** Once I had no job and thought I could make money as a waitress. But nobody wanted to hire me with no experience. So I wrote a letter explaining why I wanted to be a waitress and why people should accept me with no experience, and mailed it to every restaurant in town. My phone rang off the hook for weeks. [/li][li] **Use the “Craig’s List Technique”** I made this up myself, and it works like magic. Post an ad in the “resumes” section of Craig’s List. Write something crazy. Something completely out there. Once all I wrote was a story about how my television exploded. Then tie it back to the fact that you are looking for a job. Don’t include your resume in the ad- say that you’ll email it to anyone who is interested. People will be intrigued. They’ll want to meet the weirdo who wrote this ad. And they never bother just asking for your resume- they’ll ask you in directly for an interview. This plan works. Every time I’ve used it I’ve ended up with dozens of job offers and found a good job within a couple of weeks.[/li][/ol] Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/179 "2009-01-02T03:37:13Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > So tell me HOW someone 20 years old, or 22 years old could be able to afford disability insurance or have a wad of money in the bank… short of coming from a wealthy background and much family assistance? Are you talking to me? You need to read my post better. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487/180 "2009-01-02T03:41:35Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > [ul] > [li]One plans, months in advance, to find roommates near the college they want to attend (possibly the closest one they’re eligible to be accepted)[/li][li]One then starts looking for jobs in that area, so that when he moves, he has a way to support himself while attending college[/li][li]One continues to utilize the resources at their disposal – friends with cars to drive him to places to apply, scouring the internet and the newspapers for jobs, walking into places in person to ask for work, etc.[/li][/ul] > > These are the things **responsible people** do **BEFORE** accepting responsibility for rent-sharing with friends and potentially leaving them holding the bill, or applying for classes without the means to pay the tuition or buy the books or materials to participate. Yeah, they secure funds to attend college, find a place to live, get a job, etc. That’s what every college student has to do. Millions of kids do it all the time. What makes the OP so special? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-poverty-and-the-current-economic-crisis/479487.md?page=10)