# I pit president Bush; with blood on his hands. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 22, 2004, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078 "2004-12-22T00:08:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/101 "2004-12-23T02:21:21Z")
Yes, America simply spreads joy and love and freedom to the world, and everybody loves us, until some guy like bin Laden comes along and simply talks people into hating us, get this… for NO GOOD REASON. Pay no attention to those crazy people who suggest that bin Laden might be fomenting flames lit by the US in 1990, in the first Gulf war and the subsequent prolonged military occupation of Saudi Arabia. That’s just Michael Moore craziness. He made it all up. There probably isn’t even a Saudi Arabia. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/102 "2004-12-23T03:03:45Z")
Damn, damn, damn. What I feared would happen is happening. Bush lied through his teeth to justify an ill-considered war. After 9/11 he had a rare opportunity to spearhead an effective, world wide network against terrorism. Instead the fool squandered that by throwing a blunt-force military onslaught…against smoke. Hell, it’s dismally obvious the man never bothered to read actual history, but couldn’t he at least have watched _Star Wars_? You know, the effectiveness of guerilla fighters, armed outsiders and torture tending to piss off those occupied…? Unlike Viet Nam, Iraq didn’t have even the slightest seed of a homegrown goverment to work from. It’s one thing to start a war. It’s quite another to end one by making sure it’s unnecessary. It’s frightening that Bush was so arrogantly deluded he thought we’d just invade, grateful Iraquis would thrown flowers on the tanks, then bustle off to hold constitutional conventions and maybe form a Rotary club or two. The man knows politics, but not statecraft, nor apparently the first damned thing about the realities of the Middle East. We’re well and truly in the quagmire now, all of us. It’s disgraceful. And _stupid_. ---
**Author:** ![Carcosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@Carcosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carcosa)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/103 "2004-12-23T03:17:42Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > Ahh…so you are or one thosde responsible for send America down the tubes. > > When they start kidnapping more Americans and beheading them because of this…how will you feel? Oh, Reeder, you ignorant slut. What do I see? One of the popular siren songs of the liberal. You always think that actions have no consequences, you can get something for nothing, you can simply wrap yourself in your mother’s scab laden pussy lips every night and the world will be perfect in the morning. Of course, if the world is not perfect, it is always somebody else’s fault and you whine and whine and whine. You weak pathetic imbecile. Everything has a price; achievements have a price, changing the world has a price, changing your immediate environment has a price; and yes, sometimes the price is high. If you weren’t such an incompetent idiot you would know that. Anyone who has suffered, persevered, and accomplished their goals knows this. They have all paid a price. The people you sneer at, the successful, the forthright, have paid, but of course, this is a foreign concept to the liberal who simply wants everything handed to him. Feel free to wallow in your own bile if you wish, scream, kick, throw your tantrum. At your core you are a loser and you will never win over the strong and capable. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/104 "2004-12-23T03:20:07Z")
You feel better now? I love it when I step on an idiots toes. ---
**Author:** ![Carcosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@Carcosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carcosa)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/105 "2004-12-23T03:20:13Z")
> [@Lissa](#): > > … (snipped some liberal bullshit here… > > And you, bring up some stupid, bullshit, asinine and, BTW, sexist statement (notice the panties and bitch comment, thereby implying females being weak and crying) to refute any discussion of the latter. > > … damn, had to snip even more of Lissa’s bullshit here… Yes, I’m sexist. I very much enjoy the differences I find in women. They smell good, they taste good, they are soft, warm, yielding, and they cry when they are happy. Was I supposed to take offense at your observation? Was there some particular reaction you were expecting or were you simply vomiting some liberal crap you heard from your favorite professor? Lissa, this is going to get old. I’ll tire quickly of watching you stamp your little feet and shake your tiny fist (liberals, by their very nature tend to be tiresome - kind of like small dogs nipping at your ankles). Why don’t we make a game of this? Lets say you get 5 points every time you answer one of my posts wearing high heels ( no less than 3 inches), you get 10 points if you combine the heels with stockings that have the seams up the back, and you get 15 points if you post a picture of yourself in the heels and stockings. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/106 "2004-12-23T03:27:18Z")
So tell me carcosa… When are you going to enlist and go fight for your country? Or are you one of those that cries forward…from the rear? Anyones death but yours…right? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/107 "2004-12-23T03:29:47Z")
A carcosa? Isn’t that, like, a tumor? ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/108 "2004-12-23T03:30:27Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > A carcosa? Isn’t that, like, a tumor? Close enough. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/109 "2004-12-23T03:36:30Z")
> [@Carcosa](#): > > Why don’t > we make a game of this? Lets say you get 5 points every time you > answer one of my posts wearing high heels ( no less than 3 inches), > you get 10 points if you combine the heels with stockings that have > the seams up the back, and you get 15 points if you post a picture > of yourself in the heels and stockings. Somehow or other you aren’t coming across as real ‘strong and capable’ here, Carcosa, much less ‘successful and forthright.’ Actually you sound like a distinctly addled loon, whether you’re serious in your raving or just playing agent provocateur. It’s hard to tell, because you sure aren’t representing any side well. Now try _this_ game! Try posting at least somewhat on topic, leaving out any smarmy requests. Ick. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/110 "2004-12-23T04:37:29Z")
People still use WebTV? Isn’t there an 80 column card out for it yet? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/111 "2004-12-23T11:02:37Z")
> [@MrFantsyPants](#): > > So, **Liberal** , you are suggesting that standing up for what you believe is right, rather than pandering to the lowest common denominator is “stupid” and therefore makes that person responsible for the country going down the tubes? Um, no. I’m suggesting that if you waste knowledge, it is worse than being ignorant. > [@](#): > > That’s fucked up, and the more of your posts I read, the more I become convinced that you are a disingenuous asshole with nothing of actual value to add. And this addition of yours — what is it worth? ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/112 "2004-12-23T12:12:13Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Um, no. I’m suggesting that if you waste knowledge, it is worse than being ignorant. And I’d suggest that **MrFantsyPants** is spot on, that you are, in fact, a disingenuous asshole. > [@Liberal](#): > > And this addition of yours — what is it worth? It’s worth lies in its accuracy. It’s an accurate observation of your quality as a poster. ---
**Author:** ![MrFantsyPants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@MrFantsyPants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrFantsyPants)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/113 "2004-12-23T12:12:46Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Um, no. I’m suggesting that if you waste knowledge, it is worse than being ignorant. So tell me what knowledge is being wasted. From your previous post, it is not in the least bit obvious. Are you referring to the the leaders of the Democrat party, or to the left in general? Perhaps then we can begin a constructive discussion. > [@Liberal](#): > > And this addition of yours — what is it worth? That last post? I’ve been struggling with how to respond to people who seem to be more interested in insulting people than adding to a discussion. Others on this board, I just ignore because I see no value in calling them on their behaviour. You, however, seem more intelligent and considered than the average flame-bait. Perhaps my attempt was quite bumbling, but maybe I can learn something from your distaste for the left. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/114 "2004-12-23T12:23:39Z")
> [@MrFantsyPants](#): > > So tell me what knowledge is being wasted. From your previous post, it is not in the least bit obvious. Are you referring to the the leaders of the Democrat party, or to the left in general? Perhaps then we can begin a constructive discussion. Suppose you knew that all Mr. Smith cared about was collecting ceramic elephants and that you needed Mr. Smith’s support in order to achieve a goal. It seems to me that the only circumstance in which you cannot use your knowledge effectively is if your goal is to ban the collecting of ceramic elephants. Inasmuch as the left has far more important goals (one would hope) than banning tax cuts — such as removing the Republican monopoly on government — it seems to me that it could use its knowledge to appeal to the only thing that people care about. > [@](#): > > That last post? I’ve been struggling with how to respond to people who seem to be more interested in insulting people than adding to a discussion. Others on this board, I just ignore because I see no value in calling them on their behaviour. You, however, seem more intelligent and considered than the average flame-bait. Perhaps my attempt was quite bumbling, but maybe I can learn something from your distaste for the left. Just so you know, I have an equal distaste for the right. The left cannot keep its mind off my wallet, but the right cannot keep its mind off my zipper. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/115 "2004-12-23T13:15:29Z")
> [@Carcosa](#): > > Oh, Reeder, you ignorant slut. What do I see? One of the > popular siren songs of the liberal. You always think that > actions have no consequences, you can get something for nothing, > you can simply wrap yourself in your mother’s scab laden pussy > lips every night and the world will be perfect in the > morning. Of course, if the world is not perfect, it is > always somebody else’s fault and you whine and whine and whine. And yet, your hero is one who’s been able to start at the top of every job, got into an exclusive college and avoided the draft by family connections, refuses to admit mistakes or take the blame for anything, and has lead the country into a steadfast refusal to look at the consequences of massive spending, government expansion, and messy war, all while cutting taxes so he won’t piss off his rich friends. It’s hard to know what neocons mean when they say “consequences,” since they clearly have no intention of paying for their dirty little war themselves, or take the responsibility for anything. It’s quite obvious, too, that like your hero you’re a soft-bellied weakling who thinks thoughness is clenching one’s jaw and using inflated rhetoric, with no fear of direct retribution, and who’s idea of responsibility is nonexistent. Liberals may or may not think everything that’s wrong with the world is someone else’s fault, but it’s time for YOU to face up to the facts that this war, and this debt, is YOUR mess and YOU have to clean it up and stop trying to turn it back into a criticism of liberals for noticing that there is a mess. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/116 "2004-12-23T13:27:56Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Absurd. > Some of us have done our best to fight this shit. > Those who support Bush have far more personal responsibility than those of us who fought it. > “We” weren’t in those debates, Kerry was. > Don’t blame us for not controlling Kerry’s mind, ya know? Certainly Bush supporters are more culpable than the rest of us. But these war crimes are being committed in OUR name with OUR tax dollars. We have the responsibility to put a stop to this and punish those responsible. This nonsense of punishing the grunts that carry out the orders while letting those that issued them run free has got to stop. I, for one, will write to my Congressmen (a Republican) and both Senators (both Democrats) and demand an investigation. If all of us stand up now and be counted, we can make a difference. We can’t let Bush and his minions turn the US into a banana republic. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/117 "2004-12-23T14:48:07Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > This is **not** the way to fight the war on terror or win hearts and minds. This idea that there is a moral high ground sounds good on paper, but in reality, on the ground with the troops doesn’t make much sense. As you stand their in your circa 1900 Marquis of Queensbury rules boxing stance the other guy has kicked you in the nuts and made off with your wallet (after chopping your head off, of course). After reading this thread I have come to the conclusion that if this is the majority of opinion on the left and if things stay the same as they are now in Iraq and with you guys poking fingers at each other at home, you will most likely lose this war. Too bad for the Iraqi people and for those who have died in the coalition forces that some people take going off to war far to lightly and don’t have the cojones to take the necessary measures to prosecute it effectively. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/118 "2004-12-23T14:56:31Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > This idea that there is a moral high ground sounds good on paper, but in reality, on the ground with the troops doesn’t make much sense. > As you stand their in your circa 1900 Marquis of Queensbury rules boxing stance the other guy has kicked you in the nuts and made off with your wallet (after chopping your head off, of course). > > After reading this thread I have come to the conclusion that if this is the majority of opinion on the left and if things stay the same as they are now in Iraq and with you guys poking fingers at each other at home, you will most likely lose this war. > > Too bad for the Iraqi people and for those who have died in the coalition forces that some people take going off to war far to lightly and don’t have the cojones to take the necessary measures to prosecute it effectively. What part of “torture is not an effective way to gather intelligence” don’t you understand? Remember, this info is not coming from the left, it’s the considered position of most in the military intel community. Do you LIKE torture for some other reason than its very questionable data gathering propensities. Now, I am in agreement that limited use of sleep deprivation is all right. A sleep-deprived person can fully recover once the ordeal is other if they’re just allowed to sleep. But you need to vet the prisoners to make sure they have useful data, and there we have been VERY weak indeed. Many of the prisoners in Gitmo are there because they were swept up by Afghan brigands seeking to collect an ill-considered bounty for Al-Qaeda operatives. Most of the prisoners at Abu Ghraib are not and were not terrorists. I’m afraid the current administration is like a teen who wants the keys to the car, claiming he’ll drive safely and do lots of useful errands and stuff, but past history shows he’ll be drunk as a skunk and drag racing fifteen minutes after you give him the keys. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/119 "2004-12-23T15:08:09Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > People still use WebTV? > Isn’t there an 80 column card out for it yet? I see it as the pentameter of the deranged, akin to a Motley Crue lyric sheet, complete with righteous machismo. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/120 "2004-12-23T15:21:53Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > I see it as the pentameter of the deranged, akin to a Motley Crue lyric sheet, complete with righteous machismo. I didn’t know Vince Neil wrote in pentameters. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078.md?page=7)