# I pit president Bush; with blood on his hands. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 22, 2004, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078 "2004-12-22T00:08:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/141 "2004-12-23T18:56:08Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > What bothers me the most isn’t that evidence like this keeps appearing; it’s that nothing substantial changes when it does appear. Exactly. This is not news. Anyone who was paying attention already _knew_ that the orders to torture Iraqi prisoners came down from the very top. The sad truth is, the majority of American voters simply don’t care. They voted Bush back in _anyway_, and I have no doubt they’d do it again in light of this new evidence. I can scarcely imagine _anything_ Bush could have done that would have stopped him from getting re-elected, other than if he had somehow stopped being perceived as a “good ole boy”. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/142 "2004-12-23T19:01:52Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Yeah, sounds harsh but that is what war is, harsh. **Be damned sure that what you are doing is correct from the get go before you go thrashing about in the desert.** > > \ > > Who is the they you speak of? The Iraqi people never owned Iraq, Saddam did. He owned a place called Iraq with a bunch of slaves and minions to do his bidding or to take the abuse he dished out as he saw fit. The US took it away from him. So, who owns it now? The former slaves or the invading army? Only people in democratic nations where people have a say in government can people ever say it is theirs, imho. (bolding added) I’d also add, “be damned sure from the get go that you have a workable replacement government ready unless you want to settle in for an endless occupation.” Otherwise you have a lowgrade war that never stops, and in fact just breeds more opposition as it drags along. This is where Bush blew it, in spades. I don’t think many people disagreed that Saddam was a horror. A lot of us questioned whether he was much more than a convenient symbol for Bush after 9/11. Knocking Saddam out of power didn’t do a thing about the terrorists who smashed loaded passenger planes into Manhatten. It created a sudden power vacuum in an already unstable region that was already prone to hating the US and all its works. Bush wasn’t even remotely prepared with the statecraft needed to fill that vacuum. He hasn’t shown the slightest savvy about the byzantine ME socio/political/religious realities but that’s where the ultimate answer has to come from. Worse, he swaggered in without bothering to build a widespread international alliance that would have given support and credibility in rebuilding Iraq. It’s a helluva lot harder to build something than knock something down. Bush couldn’t even unite his own country behind his stupid war, much less the rest of the world. I don’t take the slightest pleasure in thinking _any_ of this. It goes far beyond stupid conversative/liberal blather in narrow US terms. I wanted like hell to be wrong about Bush, wanted to believe he was smarter and savvier than he seemed. As far as I can see, he’s like an arrogant little kid who got punched by bullies who danced out of reach, so he kicked into one hell of a nest of fire ants to hit _something_ back. He’s blindly swatting and stomping away, caught in the chaos of his own making and becoming more desperate and vicious in his frustration while his real enemies and friends alike shake their heads in amazement. I mind like hell that my country, my goverment, is acting so _stupidly_ and dishonorably. I mind it like grim, bloody hell and I’m an Independent. And I mind it much worse that people, Iraqi and allies, are dying for this. _It didn’t have to happen this way_. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/143 "2004-12-23T19:30:23Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Certainly Bush supporters are more culpable than the rest of us. But these war crimes are being committed in OUR name with OUR tax dollars. We have the responsibility to put a stop to this and punish those responsible. Agreed, and I, for one, have been trying. Surely blood isn’t on my hands because those I’ve been fighting against beat me? > [@BobLibDem](#): > > This nonsense of punishing the grunts that carry out the orders while letting those that issued them run free has got to stop. I, for one, will write to my Congressmen (a Republican) and both Senators (both Democrats) and demand an investigation. If all of us stand up now and be counted, we can make a difference. We can’t let Bush and his minions turn the US into a banana republic. All those are good, but I’ve tried that too, and it didn’t work. Still, best of luck to you. > [@Uzi](#): > > This idea that there is a moral high ground sounds good on paper, but in reality, on the ground with the troops doesn’t make much sense. Why, do troops on the ground suddenly change reality? And, I would point out, that the _pragmatic_ realities do not change, and those, eg. the loss of ‘hearts and minds’, are what we need to be focused on. IMHO. > [@Uzi](#): > > As you stand their in your circa 1900 Marquis of Queensbury rules boxing stance the other guy has kicked you in the nuts and made off with your wallet (after chopping your head off, of course). Um… no. I’d be dealing with things like the Geneva Convention and looking at what this disasterous series of events has done, and is doing, to the ME. > [@Uzi](#): > > After reading this thread I have come to the conclusion that if this is the majority of opinion on the left and if things stay the same as they are now in Iraq and with you guys poking fingers at each other at home, you will most likely lose this war. :rolleyes: President Nixon? Is that you? Let me give you a reality check, if this war is lost, it will be lost due to the corrupt, inefficent, incompetent administration which planned, orchestrated, and is ultimately responsible for it. I don’t know what insane talking point you’re relating, but tell me, how do Americans at home protesting human rights abuses lose the war? > [@Uzi](#): > > Too bad for the Iraqi people and for those who have died in the coalition forces that some people take going off to war far to lightly and don’t have the cojones to take the necessary measures to prosecute it effectively. The necessary measures? Would those involve torturing innocent Iraqis? Cuz, like, I’m curious. Maybe, just maybe, the necessary measures involved an international coalition, UN sanction, proper planning and intel, and an exit strategy? ---
**Author:** ![Jaade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@Jaade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaade)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/144 "2004-12-23T20:04:00Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > Exactly. This is not news. Anyone who was paying attention already _knew_ that the orders to torture Iraqi prisoners came down from the very top. The sad truth is, the majority of American voters simply don’t care. They voted Bush back in _anyway_, and I have no doubt they’d do it again in light of this new evidence. I can scarcely imagine _anything_ Bush could have done that would have stopped him from getting re-elected, other than if he had somehow stopped being perceived as a “good ole boy”. See, I think that a large part of the problem is that most Americans are NOT informed. They get their news in short spurts on the Nightly News, or watch CNN exclusively, or read the local newspaper. The younger generations? They don’t even bother with that, mostly. Now, your last statement is what really hits home for me. Why do people see this guy as a “good ol’ boy”? My daddy is a good ol’ boy…GW just has the accent, and sometimes it even sounds fake to me (and I know Southern accents well). He is a spoliled rich boy, not a good ol’ boy. I’d be surprised if he’s ever even known a real good ol’ boy. His cowboy routine is utterly repulsive to me, and I just have a deep dislike for the man personally. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/145 "2004-12-23T20:13:06Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Well the thrust of my post was towards the infighting that goes on between you Americans **during** the midst of a war, al la Vietnam. Good. The American citizenry itself is one of the ‘last barriers’ against the improper exercise of power at home, and abroad. You’ll notice that there wasn’t massive societal dissent over a just war, such as WWII. And yet, lo and behold ,when we start firebombing villages and killing innocent people, those pesky Americans find it within themselves to disagree on the war. Shocking, juts shocking. > [@Uzi](#): > > And the in-fighting is revovling around piddly assed shit like draping a flag on someone or whether a picture was taken in a compromising position. **No**. Most importantly it revolves around the **pragmatic** aspect. This shit is bad for our troops, and bad for our civilians. And, you know damn well, the worst things weren’t games of flag-dressup. So yeah, it’s easy to win this discussion on pragmatic as well as moal grounds. > [@Uzi](#): > > All this while other people are still in the process of either a) having their heads cut off, or b) having some blow their heads off, depending on which side you’re on. You do know that people died in Abu Graib, that young children were raped? You do realize that _pissing off the native population as badly as possible_ will not yield us folks to cooperate with? You do understand that by putting a US stamp of aproval on torture we have virtually guaranteed that every US soldier who is captured is going to be tortured? Yes, the insurgents have a brutal method of killing prisoners. No, describe why we’d want to become like they are, and how the fuck it will help if we do? > [@Uzi](#): > > Damn, get some perspective here. This was another poster’s line. The resonance ammused me. > [@Uzi](#): > > Some of you sound like it isn’t the people you are fighting who are the enemy, but yourselves. Sometimes when a war is being prosecuted by a third-wit chimp and his undead veep, the helping hand of American civil society has to grab 'em by the scruff of neck and shake. (ahem) That is, yes, there are enemies out there, and there are enemies in here. And any enemy of America should be an enemy of an American patriot, right? > [@Uzi](#): > > And by my comment, “taking war lightly”, I was making two points: > In wars past the enemy didn’t surrender in a couple of weeks and then give up peaceably. What did it take to defeat Germany and Japan so that you could go in and start start educating and improving the standard of living? On one hand, the crushing and debilitating losses of massive quantities of their soldiers and civilians, dresden, the damages to their infrastructure… On the other, two atomic bombs . > [@Uzi](#): > > I suggest that the reason is that the population was utterly sick of war and didn’t have the will to fight back. Something not evident in Iraq at this time seemingly. An atomic bomb will do that to ya. And it’s kinda the goal to not make the population so ‘sick’ of war when you’re, ya know, liberating them for the sake of their freedom? You don’t roll in and traumatize them as deeply as possible as part of an official strategy. (I hope) > [@Uzi](#): > > But then I also come from the Ghengis Khan and Conan school of warmaking. You do realize that only one of those two figures isn’t fictional, right? > [@Uzi](#): > > Look, if you are going to start up a war you should do what it takes to finish it. Some on the left would say “If you’re going to start a war you should do what it takes to make sure it’s well planned and there is an exit strategy.” Wonder which is a better plan, running a good war, or nuking the place once it gets out of control due to our mistakes? > [@Uzi](#): > > Saddam kept control of his country only one way. Did you think you could do it any other way than he did especially after he had been in control for so long? I’m sorry, I thought you just said that we should use American lives and lucre in order to rule Iraq like dictators. Surely you didn’t, and I have my brain set to crazy? > [@Uzi](#): > > I think you are as delusional as the person who is the subject of this thread if you do. Tthe person who is the subject of this thread is president Bush. So, you agree he is out of touch with reality? > [@Uzi](#): > > The only reason we, as in westerners, are here at all is because the ‘natives’ can’t, or won’t, develop their own resources and have allowed us to do it for them. Get it? What would you call the people who’re born and die there and spend their lives there if not natives? And, past that quibble: that’s a fucking disgusting sentiment. Can’t, or **won’t** “develop their own resources”? You do realize that’s essentially imperialist dogma naked of any further ‘justifications’ ? However a people choose to live, that’s their choice. We do not have a right to ‘do it for them’ unless we are **actually** invited. And last time I checked, the Iraqis didn’t ask for our help, don’t want us there, and have expressed a fond desire for us to leave. > [@Uzi](#): > > Their choice. And those ‘natives’ of which you speak are my friends, but that doesn’t blind me to what their culture has done to them and continues to do to them. No, see, their choice is to have a soverign nation and run it whatever way they want without fear of being bombed and/or invaded. > [@Uzi](#): > > Maybe the better question you should be asking is if I agree that the US should be in Iraq at all with its army? No it shouldn’t be. **Then find a way to make things right!** _Don’t just make this mistake as bloody and horrible as possible!_ > [@Uzi](#): > > But if you go to war then go to war and quit whining about some eggs cracked making omlets. Yeah, sounds harsh but that is what war is, harsh. I hope that no country you’re living in is ever involved in a war with someone who thinks like you do. “Well, this wasn’t a very good idea, we shouldn’t be here in the first place. But… the natives are restless, so let’s kill every second male.” (or whatever) > [@Uzi](#): > > Be damned sure that what you are doing is correct from the get go before you go thrashing about in the desert. Ayieeeeee!!! My irony meter exploded! > [@Uzi](#): > > Who is the they you speak of? The Iraqi people never owned Iraq, Saddam did. [wrong](http://www.infoplease.com/spot/iraqtimeline1.html) > [@Uzi](#): > > He owned a place called Iraq with a bunch of slaves and minions to do his bidding or to take the abuse he dished out as he saw fit. The US took it away from him. So, who owns it now? Um, the citizens of Iraq? > [@Uzi](#): > > The former slaves or the invading army? Your rhetoric is slimey imperealistic dreck. I’d advise you to get another. Oh, and, people who live under dictators don’t become ‘slaves’ Ignorant fuck. [quote=Uzi] Only people in democratic nations where people have a say in government can people ever say it is theirs, imho. [quote=Uzi] Funny, lots of us opposed the war, and we had no say in government… you about ready for your slave-gear? > [@Uzi](#): > > Continue your thought with: Which will then allow us to stabilize the country, build up the infrastructure, start educating the populace, increasing the GDP by getting the economy on track, getting people jobs, showing them a different way of doing things…How’s that working now with all the chaos? Who caused all this chaos? Who didn’t have a plan for dealing with it? Whose mistakes have exacerbated it? Why will continuing down this path and augmenting our mistakes work better than before? > [@Uzi](#): > > I agree. What is the point of killing people unless you are willing to do the things necessary to create peace and order in a nation that has only known the brutal hand of a dictator? It would have been better to have left them alone in the first place. [sure about that?](http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1197.html) And, I’d agree that we need to do the things necessary to create peace and order. It’s just that torturing the natives and saying they’re not even citizens cuz they’re slaves… well, ya see, that **isn’t** the way to do it. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/146 "2004-12-23T20:22:12Z")
> [@Jaade](#): > > See, I think that a large part of the problem is that most Americans are NOT informed. I think even larger is that they have _no desire_ to inform themselves. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/147 "2004-12-23T20:43:33Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > I think even larger is that they have _no desire_ to inform themselves. I was at a party the other night, and a couple Republicans were bitching about how people are still upset about Bush being president, and how they won’t let it go. One of them said, “I’ve never heard people do so much complaining.” I try to avoid getting into political arguments in social situations, so I didn’t say anything. But I really _felt_ like asking them if it hadn’t occured to them that maybe it’s not that Democrats, just this year, have all of a sudden become whinier, but maybe - just maybe - there are _reasons_ that people hate Bush, and that it’s the most complaining he’s ever heard because he’s the _worst president_ we’ve ever had. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/148 "2004-12-23T20:45:00Z")
Oh, and also that it’s not only Democrats who are complaining. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/149 "2004-12-23T20:58:02Z")
That’s rich. A bunch of people _complaining_ about bunches of people complaining. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/150 "2004-12-23T21:18:14Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > And by my comment, “taking war lightly”, I was making two points: > In wars past the enemy didn’t surrender in a couple of weeks and then give up peaceably. What did it take to defeat Germany and Japan so that you could go in and start start educating and improving the standard of living? I suggest that the reason is that the population was utterly sick of war and didn’t have the will to fight back. Something not evident in Iraq at this time seemingly. Umm, I trust you learned at one point that both Germany and Japan attacked first, right? And that possibly made a little bit of difference? And that the purpose of WW II on both fronts was not given as improving their standard of living, but of defeating a real (as opposed to a bogus) threat? I’d guess that many in Germany and Japan thought they could really win - at least during the time of their greatest success. Who in Iraq, outside the loony bin, thought they could win? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/151 "2004-12-23T22:11:10Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > That’s rich. A bunch of people _complaining_ about bunches of people complaining. Irony? No, they took that away after cognitive dissonance :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/152 "2004-12-23T22:50:05Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > As far as I can see, he’s like an arrogant little kid who got punched by bullies who danced out of reach, so he kicked into one hell of a nest of fire ants to hit _something_ back. He’s blindly swatting and stomping away, caught in the chaos of his own making and becoming more desperate and vicious in his frustration while his real enemies and friends alike shake their heads in amazement. What an apt description of the circumstances! It really is like he’s in some world of his own, and defending him is becoming too tedious even for his allies. As a sign of just how bad it is, a talking head on Fox News this week said that it’s time the president admit his mistakes and come clean to the American people. I think his puppeteers have gotten too careless. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2004, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/153 "2004-12-24T03:36:40Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > I’d also add, “be damned sure from the get go that you have a workable replacement government ready unless you want to settle in for an endless occupation.” … And I mind it much worse that people, Iraqi and allies, are dying for this. _It didn’t have to happen this way_. I agree with you, TVeblen. I think this is what I’m getting at. If you go to war make sure create a workable plan **with** options when that goes to hell in a hand basket - because it will. Thinking that the people of an entirely different culture will welcome you with open arms and basing your exit strategy on that is totally insane. I mean if you believe that then you probably believe that a magic sky pixie will come down from on high and bail you out of the mess you’ve made…ah, hmmm…I’m getting a sudden image of a round room, oval if you will, where a number of people are sitting in a prayer circle asking Jebus the best way to proceed. Scares the shit out of me, it does. ---
**Author:** ![ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZombiesAteMyBrain)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2004, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/154 "2004-12-24T03:46:59Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Maybe the better question you should be asking is if I agree that the US should be in Iraq at all with its army? No it shouldn’t be. But if you go to war then go to war and quit whining about some eggs cracked making omlets. Yeah, sounds harsh but that is what war is, harsh. Be damned sure that what you are doing is correct from the get go before you go thrashing about in the desert. Problem is, we aren’t talking about cookery classes here - cracking a few eggs while cooking an omelet. We are talking about the unjustified bombing and shooting , killing thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians in a so-called war which they did nothing to provoke. The war in Iraq is a war that shouldn’t ever have been started IMO. It seems, though, that Bushco. would rather wipe out the whole population than apologise to the people of Iraq and admit that the whole war there was an enormous, bloody mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2004, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/155 "2004-12-24T03:50:02Z")
We’ve killed or wounded somewhere around 10k civilians in Iraq. Killed around 1500 insurgents. Bushco feels that’s a fair exchange. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2004, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/156 "2004-12-24T03:51:39Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Why, do troops on the ground suddenly change reality? > And, I would point out, that the _pragmatic_ realities do not change, and those, eg. the loss of ‘hearts and minds’, are what we need to be focused on. IMHO. > … > Um… no. > I’d be dealing with things like the Geneva Convention and looking at what this disasterous series of events has done, and is doing, to the ME. > … > Let me give you a reality check, if this war is lost, it will be lost due to the corrupt, inefficent, incompetent administration which planned, orchestrated, and is ultimately responsible for it. > … > I don’t know what insane talking point you’re relating, but tell me, how do Americans at home protesting human rights abuses lose the war? Pragmatic realities? Pragmatism means that the reality for you may not be the reality for me, doesn’t it? What is real is that if you are on the ground trying to put a bullet in someones head rules like the Geneva Convention are meaningless. You will do what is necessary to keep yourself and your buddies alive. So, if I capture a guy running away from me with an AK in his hand I’m going to ask him some questions about where his buddies are and I may not have the time to win his heart and mind. Do I think it is worthwhile to make fools of people in prison? Do I think that killing children is a good thing to do (why would they be locked up in the first place?)? Certainly not. That’s not what I am defending and those people who do such things should be accountable for them. Do I believe that George Bush said to torture children? Not for a second…well maybe for a second, but not much longer than that. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2004, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/157 "2004-12-24T03:57:41Z")
> [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](#): > > It seems, though, that Bushco. would rather wipe out the whole population than apologise to the people of Iraq and admit that the whole war there was an enormous, bloody mistake. I can see it now, “Oops, sorry about that! My mistake, carry on.” Okay, then what? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2004, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/158 "2004-12-24T04:17:57Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > I can see it now, “Oops, sorry about that! My mistake, carry on.” Okay, then what? Perhaps they could pull some resources out of Iraq and dedicate them to fighting Al Qaida. Just a thought. You remember Osama bin Laden? The guy who pulled off 9/11? ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2004, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/159 "2004-12-24T04:20:54Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Perhaps they could pull some resources out of Iraq and dedicate them to fighting Al Qaida. Just a thought. > > You remember Osama bin Laden? The guy who pulled off 9/11? Hell…even Bush doesn’t care about him. Nor about Al Qaida. ---
**Author:** ![ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZombiesAteMyBrain)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2004, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078/160 "2004-12-24T04:22:37Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > I can see it now, “Oops, sorry about that! My mistake, carry on.” Okay, then what? I don’t mean just talking the talk - I mean paying really substantial reparations to the bereaved and getting the USA and UK the hell out of Iraq ASAP. The reparations set aside for the rebuilding of Iraq could perhaps be overseen by some neutral human rights org. rather than American companies. Surely some good faith apologies and actions by the USA and the UK are needed if this war is to be prevented from escalating further. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-president-bush-with-blood-on-his-hands/281078.md?page=9)