# I pit Randroids **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 13, 2011, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-randroids/606019 "2011-12-13T10:08:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hambil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hambil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hambil)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-randroids/606019/1 "2011-12-13T10:08:59Z")
My first pit, we’ll see how it goes. Today, with unemployment at nearly 16% (actual, not the silly government released number that doesn’t account for folks who have been unemployed so long they’ve fallen off the system), that means that 84% of American is working. When the economy is good, that drops to about 3%, meaning 97% of American’s go to work when given the chance. Doesn’t sound like lazy unmotivated populace to me. Stop reading Rand, and her morally bankrupt idol Friedrich Nietzsche, and starting reading more basic math books. If you are a Randroid, I pit thee, I pit thee again. I consider the bulk of Tea-Baggers I’ve met to be Randroids (Objectivism with all the nice parts removed - not that it had many nice parts to start with). ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-randroids/606019/2 "2011-12-13T11:28:38Z")
> [@Hambil](#): > > Stop reading Rand, and her morally bankrupt idol Friedrich Nietzsche There’s at least two things wrong with this statement a) Nietzsche was not Rand’s idol b) Nietzsche was not morally bankrupt ---
**Author:** ![Hambil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hambil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hambil)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-randroids/606019/3 "2011-12-13T11:44:34Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > There’s at least two things wrong with this statement > a) Nietzsche was not Rand’s idol > b) Nietzsche was not morally bankrupt Thank you for your opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-randroids/606019/4 "2011-12-13T12:12:49Z")
> [@Hambil](#): > > Today, with unemployment at nearly 16% (actual, not the silly government released number that doesn’t account for folks who have been unemployed so long they’ve fallen off the system), that means that 84% of American is working. The official unemployment rate _does not drop anyone_ for being unemployed for a significant length of time. The official unemployment rate _has never dropped anyone_ for being unemployed for a significant length of time. The big difference between broad and narrow measures is whether people are looking for work. How long they’ve been out of work has nothing to do with any official measure. And the U6 underemployment rate, at 15.6% in November (seasonally adjusted), is a [government issued figure](http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm). The government collects and releases a spectrum of measures of unemployment. The U3 unemployment rate, the official rate, is typically easier to use for comparisons across time periods, because it is the rate that most everyone’s impressions are already calibrated to think about. Talking about the U6 out of context can be misleading, as it becomes tempting to compare apples to oranges instead of comparing similar measures. > [@Hambil](#): > > When the economy is good, that drops to about 3%, meaning 97% of American’s go to work when given the chance. Broadly defined underemployment hasn’t been less than 6% for as long as I’ve been looking at it. I’d guess it’s never dipped below 6% for as long as it’s been defined. I’ll agree with you that Ayn Rand was loathsome, but untruths about unemployment aren’t related to that. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-randroids/606019/5 "2011-12-13T12:53:11Z")
> [@Hambil](#): > > Thank you for your opinion. Point (b) is subjective, but point (a) is not. And just FYI, I fucking hate Randroids. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-randroids/606019/6 "2011-12-13T13:20:26Z")
I highly doubt 84% of the American population is working. Children, students, retirees, stay at home parents, the disabled, and other non-working adults likely comprise more than 16% of the population. ---
**Author:** ![Baracus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@Baracus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baracus)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-randroids/606019/7 "2011-12-13T13:37:28Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I highly doubt 84% of the American population is working. Children, students, retirees, stay at home parents, the disabled, and other non-working adults likely comprise more than 16% of the population. Right. The (un)employment statistics only reflect those people who are working or looking for work. The BLS lists the civilian labor force at 154 million, which means that slightly more than half the population is working or looking for work. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-randroids/606019/8 "2011-12-13T13:37:56Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I highly doubt 84% of the American population is working. Children, students, retirees, stay at home parents, the disabled, and other non-working adults likely comprise more than 16% of the population. It’s pretty obvious they must be fucking Randroids then. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-randroids/606019/9 "2011-12-13T13:38:01Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > There’s at least two things wrong with this statement > a) Nietzsche was not Rand’s idol > b) Nietzsche was not morally bankrupt Nietzsche was very much Rand’s idol at one period of her life, though she later grew disenchanted with him, and his influence on her philosophy is very clear. There’s a reason people used to call her a dime store Nietzsche. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-randroids/606019/10 "2011-12-13T13:44:37Z")
Bathroom graffiti that may amuse only me: _God is dead.–Nietzsche_ \* No, Nietzsche is dead.–God\* 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-randroids/606019/11 "2011-12-13T13:45:20Z")
I think almost every well educated grown up went through a period in his/her life when they first discover Rand and idolize her and her writings. It’s kinda like puberty, but with less hair sprouting in odd places. But then they grow up even more, gain a bit more care and concern for fellow human beings, and learn what the world is really like, and they grow out of it and realize her writing kinda sucks. Unfortunately, like middle aged men driving perceived penis enhancing sports cars, some people don’t actually develop out of that phase of their lives. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-randroids/606019/12 "2011-12-13T13:54:59Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I think almost every well educated grown up went through a period in his/her life when they first discover Rand and idolize her and her writings. It’s kinda like puberty, but with less hair sprouting in odd places… Obviously this is not something we’re likely to be able to cite reliable statistics on, but I 'm skeptical that the majority of well educated adults went through such a phase. I didn’t, and I never personally ran into anyone in college (or after, for that matter) who even discussed Rand let alone idolized her. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-randroids/606019/13 "2011-12-13T13:55:04Z")
> [@Hambil](#): > > My first pit, we’ll see how it goes. > > Today, with unemployment at nearly 16% (actual, not the silly government released number that doesn’t account for folks who have been unemployed so long they’ve fallen off the system), that means that 84% of American is working. > > When the economy is good, that drops to about 3%, meaning 97% of American’s go to work when given the chance. > > Doesn’t sound like lazy unmotivated populace to me. I’m not a Randroid, but I also hate blanket statements too. Especially when there are things like what’s going on down in Alabama. A state which has [9.3% unemployment](http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm) is actually seriously considering using [prison labor due](http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jV5iKlDt4rAKxnZJPERa14_6k9Rg?docId=CNG.44c4f3fd96fed829c94dfa120a0e3dba.a1)to the chronic labor shortage issue. Why would that be? According to [this article:](http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9RF7O6O0.htm) > [@](#): > > Farmers have complained of a lack of field hands since parts of the law took effect in late September. Many have said legal residents aren’t physically able or mentally tough enough to perform the work, and others won’t do so because it doesn’t pay enough. > > Hall said the agriculture positions pay well above minimum wage, but many Americans find them too “physically taxing” to perform. That sounds, in some instances, lazy to me. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-randroids/606019/14 "2011-12-13T14:00:05Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > There’s at least two things wrong with this statement > a) Nietzsche was not Rand’s idol > b) Nietzsche was not morally bankrupt c) Nietzsche wrote a book (you might have heard about it) called _Twilight of the Idols_ ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-randroids/606019/15 "2011-12-13T14:02:44Z")
“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.” –Paul Krugman @stpauler: to be fair, working 12 hours of strenuous labor in the summer in Alabama would kill a fairly large number of college kids… ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-randroids/606019/16 "2011-12-13T14:11:21Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > That sounds, in some instances, lazy to me. Because everyone, even a middle-aged middle manager, is capable of going straight out into the field and working without a problem, right? ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-randroids/606019/17 "2011-12-13T14:12:24Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > I’m not a Randroid, but I also hate blanket statements too. Especially when there are things like what’s going on down in Alabama. A state which has [9.3% unemployment](http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm) is actually seriously considering using [prison labor due](http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jV5iKlDt4rAKxnZJPERa14_6k9Rg?docId=CNG.44c4f3fd96fed829c94dfa120a0e3dba.a1)to the chronic labor shortage issue. Why would that be? > According to [this article:](http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9RF7O6O0.htm) > That sounds, in some instances, lazy to me. Sounds like it’s not a shortage of labor at all – there are people able to work. The fact that they don’t want to work for the pay offered indicates that _the pay is too low_ – or at least that’s how a CEO would view his own job prospects. The free market is telling us wages will have to rise. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-randroids/606019/18 "2011-12-13T14:12:29Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Because everyone, even a middle-aged middle manager, is capable of going straight out into the field and working without a problem, right? You see where I put that part about blanket statements? Right up there? I didn’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-randroids/606019/19 "2011-12-13T14:14:48Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > I’m not a Randroid, but I also hate blanket statements too. Especially when there are things like what’s going on down in Alabama. A state which has [9.3% unemployment](http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm) is actually seriously considering using [prison labor due](http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jV5iKlDt4rAKxnZJPERa14_6k9Rg?docId=CNG.44c4f3fd96fed829c94dfa120a0e3dba.a1)to the chronic labor shortage issue. Eh, I’m always pretty skeptical of industries saying they can’t find workers, and so need the state to provide them with cheap prisoners/immigrants. Note that in the story you link to, the only number provided by a non-industry source is the number of applicants vs the number of jobs. They’ve had 500 applicants for 70 jobs. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-randroids/606019/20 "2011-12-13T14:23:58Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Eh, I’m always pretty skeptical of industries saying they can’t find workers, and so need the state to provide them with cheap prisoners/immigrants. > > Note that in the story you link to, the only number provided by a non-industry source is the number of applicants vs the number of jobs. They’ve had 500 applicants for 70 jobs. Yeah, there was the problem when the law went into effect back in September. According to the [Guardian UK:](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/14/alabama-immigration-law-workers) > [@](#): > > Cash gets angry when people tell him that his Hispanic workforce was taking jobs away from Americans. Since the new law began two weeks ago only two American citizens have come by his farm asking for work. > > The couple had driven two hours from a city to offer their services, but they barely lasted that long in the fields. Cash discovered that they were trying to fiddle him by notching up two baskets of tomatoes for every one they picked – as they were paid by the basket that would have fraudulently doubled their earnings. > > "That’s just the kind of stuff you come across. Somebody who really wants a good job and is prepared to work hard and honest for it isn’t going to come up here for four months in the year. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-randroids/606019.md?page=2)