# I pit Senator Bunning for killing seniors **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 27, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594 "2010-02-27T01:34:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/181 "2010-03-04T01:36:34Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > As someone dumped out of the job market by the current recession I agree, there should be a safety net for a temporary boost - _but there isn’t one!_ I would DEARLY love to retrain to another profession but there are NO training funds, no training programs out there for me. It seems that even though my current degree is obsolete/useless/unwanted the mere fact I have one _eliminates_ me from all job retraining/educational programs. Geez o’ pete, just help me get a freakin’ CDL and my chances of employment go up, but at this point I have _no money_ and there is no help for me to get such a thing. You don’t always have to pay for 4 years of college to make the difference here, sometimes just a little thing would get a person back to work and independent but there is _no help_ unless you’re a high school drop out or a single mother with school-age children. And I don’t want to cut the aid programs for those people, they need help, but a lot of other people who don’t have children or who went to school (to make “buggy whips”) now need help and yet there is _nothing_ for them. > > I can get food stamps. Great. I can eat. But my landlord won’t take food stamps (and it would be illegal in any case) and the wait for public housing in my area is _years_ long - there is no help for the likes of me for rent, utilities, clothing, or even frickkin’ _soap_ so I have proper hygiene for the job interviews I must go to. > > There is _no lifeline_, there is _no boost_, temporary or otherwise. When your unemployment runs out you’re on your own and you are screwed unless you can get charity or relatives or friends to help you out. > > So.. yes, let’s talk about a temporary safety net… of any sort… for those dumped out of the workforce and would like to get back into it. I’m very sorry for your situation. Obviously it’s the anonymous internet and I know nothing about your specifics, so I’m not sure what I could say. I’ve seen you post in other forums, asking about growing vegetables to save money, etc, so I know you’re serious and not merely taking a position. In my opinion, our social safety net is pretty good. It’s obviously a balancing act; for every **broomstick** who falls through the cracks, there are many others who look to take advantage of the largesse of the taxpayer, laying about and not being productive, etc. Where to draw the line? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/182 "2010-03-04T01:37:24Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Fair enough. Me neither - it was political showmanship by a guy with nothing to lose. His point was valid though, to an extent, and maybe served a useful purpose and teachable moment to this board: not adding to the deficit and our crushing debt is extremely hard. The Democrats couldn’t find a measly $10b to cut to fund this (I’d have taken it out of unspent stimulus dollars). Or, if they wanted to be intellectually honest about things, find a $10b tax to raise. Yes, the underlying “lesson” is valid. People in government should consider the cost of implementing something. When I think of pork barrels, special interests, even legitimate concerns (and “legitimate” can vary wildly from person to person), government is unique in that they have the authority to set their own budgets and reallocate money. So, what I’m saying is, they can take care of the funding. They just don’t sometimes. I believe in UHC, I think it can be done. I think it should be done. However I don’t believe in reinventing the wheel when we can learn from other countries UHC systems (what works and what doesn’t work), and we COULD afford it with money that is already there. It’s about prioritizing, and smart management (both administrating and financial backing). Unfortunately, politics is all about sound bites and posturing. ---
**Author:** ![kingbighair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/13edae/32.png) [@kingbighair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingbighair)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/183 "2010-03-04T01:55:48Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > well, maybe I’m getting whooshed. I know tons of people who think that. Yes, most of them are upper middle class and not on the dole. > > [after 5 seconds of google-fu](http://www.thesunnews.com/2010/02/08/1303150/liberals-perpetuate-cycle-of-poverty.html) > > (snip) > > [after 10 seconds of google-fu](http://spectator.org/archives/2009/06/08/dependency) > > [after 15 seconds](http://axisofright.com/2009/01/13/catholic-and-conservative-without-contradiction/) > > (this one is reasonably thoughtful, how to meld strongheld religious beliefs and doctrine with conservativism, which supposedly, according to the left, seeks to abandon the poor) Umm, I asked for a liberal who holds the position you are claiming. You gave me conservative op-eds reiterating your position against liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/184 "2010-03-04T02:29:47Z")
> [@kingbighair](#): > > Umm, I asked for a liberal who holds the position you are claiming. You gave me conservative op-eds reiterating your position against liberals. Sorry, I misunderstood then. I thought you were saying that nobody holds that belief. Of course liberals would never _admit_ to holding a belief like that; that would make them evil, even monsters. It would be like a conservative proclaiming that he/she’s racist, wants the underclass to be exterminated/lockedup/[used for scientific experiments](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085959/). But many, even most, conservatives think that many liberals do believe in keeping the poor on the plantation, much like liberals think conservatives hate the poor and want them to starve, (or to bring us back to the OP, that Bunning wants to actually kill seniors). ---
**Author:** ![kingbighair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/13edae/32.png) [@kingbighair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingbighair)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/185 "2010-03-04T03:06:08Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Sorry, I misunderstood then. I thought you were saying that nobody holds that belief. > > Of course liberals would never _admit_ to holding a belief like that; that would make them evil, even monsters. It would be like a conservative proclaiming that he/she’s racist, wants the underclass to be exterminated/lockedup/[used for scientific experiments](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085959/). But many, even most, conservatives think that many liberals do believe in keeping the poor on the plantation, much like liberals think conservatives hate the poor and want them to starve, (or to bring us back to the OP, that Bunning wants to actually kill seniors). I think are better comparisons. Something like the [Southern Strategy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy). I can come up with a conservative [proclaiming he is racist](http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/02/immigrant-rights-group-flles-complaint-against-santa-clarita-councilman-over-proud-racist-remark.html). Surely some liberal would be on the record _somewhere_ admitting what you claim. Hell, I would even accept a youtube or Yahoo answers post. This is a big internet. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/186 "2010-03-04T03:07:16Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > I It’s obviously a balancing act; for every **broomstick** who falls through the cracks, there are many others who look to take advantage of the largesse of the taxpayer, laying about and not being productive, etc. Where to draw the line? I wonder if you have an factual evidence for this remarkable statement that the proportion of people who take advantage of the system is larger than those who genuinely use the system to lift themselves up. I’m not saying that there are NO people who take avantage wrongly. I just dispute your “one vs. many others” proportion. Prove your assertion or take it back. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/187 "2010-03-04T03:07:54Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Oof, swing and a miss 42fish. Keep trying to make a real argument, it’s entertaining. There’s your problem. I’m not trying to make an argument; I don’t take you seriously enough for that. I’m just taking potshots for my personal amusement. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/188 "2010-03-04T03:13:09Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Sorry, I misunderstood then. I thought you were saying that nobody holds that belief. Pretty sure I could find, with a few deft moves of “Google-Fu,” someone claiming that the Zionist plot for world domination is being funded by black market cupcakes crafted from the swarthy foreskins of Palestinian infants. Of course, \*they \*would deny it… ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/189 "2010-03-04T03:23:46Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Pretty sure I could find, with a few deft moves of “Google-Fu,” someone claiming that the Zionist plot for world domination is being funded by black market cupcakes crafted from the swarthy foreskins of Palestinian infants. Of course, \*they \*would deny it… Naturally they would - they’re only infants. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/190 "2010-03-04T03:34:59Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > There’s your problem. I’m not trying to make an argument; I don’t take you seriously enough for that. I’m just taking potshots for my personal amusement. Ah, OK, no problem. Of course, you’ll forgive me for assuming that you \*don’t \*want to look like a complete idiot. I have now disabused myself of that notion, so please carry on. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/191 "2010-03-04T06:10:34Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Ah, OK, no problem. Of course, you’ll forgive me for assuming that you \*don’t \*want to look like a complete idiot. I have now disabused myself of that notion, so please carry on. It does lend a certain symmetry to the exchange. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/192 "2010-03-04T12:49:25Z")
> [@kingbighair](#): > > I think are better comparisons. Something like the [Southern Strategy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy). I can come up with a conservative [proclaiming he is racist](http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/02/immigrant-rights-group-flles-complaint-against-santa-clarita-councilman-over-proud-racist-remark.html). Surely some liberal would be on the record _somewhere_ admitting what you claim. Hell, I would even accept a youtube or Yahoo answers post. This is a big internet. My claim was that there are many people who think as I suggested. I produced several instances of that. Are there liberals who admit that on the interweb? I’m sure there are, and if you’re looking for my permission to seek them out, you got it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/193 "2010-03-04T12:59:58Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I wonder if you have an factual evidence for this remarkable statement that the proportion of people who take advantage of the system is larger than those who genuinely use the system to lift themselves up. > > I’m not saying that there are NO people who take avantage wrongly. I just dispute your “one vs. many others” proportion. > > Prove your assertion or take it back. That’s a fair point, and after further review, I can see that my post was written very clumsily, one foot out of bounds, etc. I don’t know the proportion of those truly in need vs those looking for the free ride, and I won’ t have time to track it down today. (as an aside: WTF how do some of you have 20k+ posts… do you not have jobs or families? 😕 ) So let the record reflect that we both agree that some people truly need the help, and some are looking to slack off. And I suspect that we both agree that we need some kind of system that maximizes the former and minimizes the latter. And since no system is perfect, there will be some truly in need who get that assistance cut off, and some slackers who are able to game the system for years. And finally, I will make a prediction that the conservatives will use an anecdotal example of the latter to shatter the safety net, and the liberals will use an anecdotal example of the former to try to move the country towards a more socialist-Western European model. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/194 "2010-03-04T13:31:28Z")
One last thing, and to bring us back to the OP The WaPo editorial today [performs](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/03/AR2010030303479.html)the post mortem of this recent Bunning episode. They say that of course it was bad politics. But from a policy perspective… hmmm > [@](#): > > But was it bad policy? That’s a closer call. The point Mr. Bunning was trying to make was a reasonable one: At some point, Congress has to stop borrowing and spending, even for worthy purposes. He’s correct about this in the long run, though there’s a fair debate as to whether the deficit is a greater threat to the economy now than, say, unemployment. (snip) > [@](#): > > The more pertinent lesson is this: Even in a rare instance where Democrats and Republicans did agree to cut blatant waste, they were still bitterly divided over how to spend the savings – with the result that the waste may never get eliminated in the first place. Please keep in mind, the Washington Post editorial board is to the left of most of the posters on this site. It seems that deficit hawkery is coming into fashion on both sides of the aisle. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/195 "2010-03-04T13:42:05Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > In my opinion, our social safety net is pretty good. It’s obviously a balancing act; for every **broomstick** who falls through the cracks, there are many others who look to take advantage of the largesse of the taxpayer, laying about and not being productive, etc. Where to draw the line? No, I disagree - while there are _some_ who game the system and take advantage, there are _more_ who fall through the cracks. Those of us who are bleeding outnumber the welfare queens. That’s what allows the draconian system of so-called aid to continue, the belief that the _majority_ of people on aid are living some sort of lush lifestyles and we _aren’t_. That _majority_ of people in poverty are miserable, and the belief that somehow we are all lay-abouts allows the rest of society to spit on us and kick us when we’re down without guilt. I’m tired of being told that I’m somehow the exception when my own experience directly contradicts this. Nor am I referring to my own current experience - I have worked with shelters and soup kitchens and the like for a _couple decades_, back when I had money and resources to spare, and I met damn few “welfare queens”. I don’t deny they exist, but they are the MINORITY, not the majority as you implied. ---
**Author:** ![kingbighair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/13edae/32.png) [@kingbighair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingbighair)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/196 "2010-03-04T16:27:23Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > My claim was that there are many people who think as I suggested. I produced several instances of that. Are there liberals who admit that on the interweb? I’m sure there are, and if you’re looking for my permission to seek them out, you got it. And my claim is you are completely making that up until you can show otherwise. You do not find it curious that you ascribe this nefarious, Machiavellian practice to liberals, yet cannot come up with even one example? You just have a sneaking suspicion that’s what liberals think? Unreal. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/197 "2010-03-04T18:43:40Z")
> [@kingbighair](#): > > And my claim is you are completely making that up until you can show otherwise. You do not find it curious that you ascribe this nefarious, Machiavellian practice to liberals, yet cannot come up with even one example? You just have a sneaking suspicion that’s what liberals think? Unreal. Why, you need look no further than the song YMCA for proof of the gay liberal agenda to increase dependence on social programs. “It’s fun to stay at the YMCA,” indeed. Pure propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/198 "2010-03-04T18:59:40Z")
Why? Is it a drag to stay at the YMCA? I’ve never stayed at the YMCA, so I wouldn’t know. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/199 "2010-03-04T19:30:09Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > , Is it a drag to stay at the YMCA?.. I want to commend the good taste and forbearance of my fellow Dopers for firmly ignoring this straight line. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/200 "2010-03-04T20:45:04Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I want to commend the good taste and forbearance of my fellow Dopers for firmly ignoring this straight line. I didn’t think there were any straight lines in ‘YMCA.’ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594.md?page=11)