# I pit Senator Bunning for killing seniors **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 27, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594 "2010-02-27T01:34:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/61 "2010-03-02T15:47:29Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Minority whip approves Bunning tactics:[Jobless Benefits to End, But Likely Only For a Couple Days](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/02/28/jobless-benefits-end-likely-couple-days/) > > Since it’s only for a “Couple Days”, I suppose the GOP leadership who let this happen are only evil-fucks for a “couple days.” No, what am I saying? Evil isn’t usually a passing thing, it sticks. > > There’s no profit in thinking fuzzy about it: But they can’t be evil - haven’t you heard how loudly they praise Jesus? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/62 "2010-03-02T16:55:43Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Good luck with that. Insurance companies negotiate what they’ll pay each year; I’ve seen different major insurance companies refuse to cover large Chicago hospitals for a year or so due to being unable to come to an agreement about payment. If the patient has an HMO, they’re not going to pay anything on top of what the insurance company does; same with many other insurance types. > > This method fucks over people who opt for things like Health Savings Accounts and the like. It really does. When my son had an asthma attack this past Christmas, the no-insurance bill (which we wound up seeing due to a paperwork snafu) came to $4500. For two hours in the emergency room, one doctor and one radiation tech, a couple of breathing treatments and an X-ray. We’ve had the exact same services at an urgent care place for $400. Ultimately we got the insurance issue straightened out, and our bill (what was actually sent to the insurance company) came out to $700 or so. But can you imagine? $4500? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/63 "2010-03-02T17:22:28Z")
I can’t imagine $700. A two-week stay in the hospital, morphine a-pumpin’ all the while, cost me $250 or so including take-home drugs and an ambulance ride and emergency surgery. And the vast majority of that was the cost of the ambulance ride. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/64 "2010-03-02T18:09:06Z")
Well I can tell you that 12 years ago after a car accident I was kept overnight for observation which didn’t consist of anything more than me going to sleep and maybe two aspirins. Bill $3,300. To sleep in a room with someone else and have nurses nearby. I could have flown to hawaii, stayed in a suite, and gotten trashed on blow and hookers for that price. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/65 "2010-03-02T20:31:54Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Except that most private insurance companies _won’t let doctors do that_. > > Look, yes, doctors should help people - but warm fuzzy feelings don’t pay the bills. The utility companies and the bank won’t accept IOU’s and good intentions. If a doctor runs his/her practice at a loss for too long _they lose everything_. And then they can help _no one._ I don’t feel sympathy for the doctors one bit. You guys buy an 15-minute HIV ELISA kit from a provider for $10 bucks and then turn around and charge $300 to run the test. If you think running an HIV ELISA is hard, it’s not, just read the insert packet and you’re done. The problem with healthcare isn’t the insurance; it’s the fact that hospitals charge a gold mine for simple, inexpensive procedures. I mean, really, how much does one sterile needle cost a hospital anyway? - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/66 "2010-03-02T20:33:02Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > I can’t imagine $700. A two-week stay in the hospital, morphine a-pumpin’ all the while, cost me $250 or so including take-home drugs and an ambulance ride and emergency surgery. And the vast majority of that was the cost of the ambulance ride. WOW:eek:. Where do you live?! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/67 "2010-03-02T20:49:32Z")
Yeah, can I get a couple days of morphine drip for, say, $100? I’ll take the bus… ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/68 "2010-03-02T20:51:22Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > WOW:eek:. Where do you live?! Canada, where we have [socialized universal health care that works](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5456070&postcount=10). When compared to Americans, Canadians live longer, live healthily longer, pay less individually for health care, pay less through our taxes for health care, and overall devote less of our GDP for health care. That’s what socialized health care is about in Canada – better health for all for less cost. I am amazed and saddened by the efforts that many people in the USA go to to prevent building a better health/lower cost system. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/69 "2010-03-02T20:51:59Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > I could have flown to hawaii, stayed in a suite, and gotten trashed on blow and hookers for that price. Woulda done you more good, too. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/70 "2010-03-02T21:11:52Z")
Can anyone explain how a single Senator can keep a bill from being voted on? Can’t the Senate vote to end debate with 99 ayes? And if a Senator objects to a voice vote, can’t they hold a rollcall vote? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/71 "2010-03-02T21:12:24Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Canada, where we have [socialized universal health care that works](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5456070&postcount=10). When compared to Americans, Canadians live longer, live healthily longer, pay less individually for health care, pay less through our taxes for health care, and overall devote less of our GDP for health care. That’s what socialized health care is about in Canada – better health for all for less cost. > > I am amazed and saddened by the efforts that many people in the USA go to to prevent building a better health/lower cost system. The fact that Canada has a healthier popilation (if true) does not by itself mean that health care in Canada is better. There is more that goes into having a healthy population than the quality of its health care (for example, the quality and quantity of its fast food). The fact that less of Canada’s GDP goes to health care does not show that Canada’s health care system is better. In fact, it may show the exact opposite. The US very well may be better at diagnosing diseases and disorders, better able to keep sick people alive longer, and Americans may just choose to spend more on health care. Also, determining whether a dollar is spent on “health care” versus something that is not “health care” is obviously open to interpretation. The people that amaze and sadden you simply have a different opinion on the best direction for the US than you do. Many of them are probably amazed and saddened by you. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/72 "2010-03-02T21:19:31Z")
Well, it may be that its because Canada has more ducks! I mean, we really don’t know, so lets assume I’m right… ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/73 "2010-03-02T21:37:08Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, it may be that its because Canada has more ducks! I mean, we really don’t know, so lets assume I’m right… The Gubmint has Big Oil [in court at the moment](http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100302/edm_ducks_100202/20100302/?hub=CalgaryHome)over ducks. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/74 "2010-03-02T21:40:07Z")
Why? A duck? ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/75 "2010-03-02T21:41:23Z")
Why a no chicken? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/76 "2010-03-02T21:46:35Z")
Luci, I don’t want anyone to assume I’m right. I just don’t want them to assume that ideas like those in Muffin’s post are right. We need to ask better questions and not just take the simplistic answers given to us by the talking points repeated by the pro-UHC crowd. Pro-UHC people also almost invariably fail to think about the non-health-related aspects of UHC, such as the effects of increased taxation and long-term wealth-redistributive entitlement programs, and the incentive for increased regulation over behaviors that could impact health issues. The pro-UHC talking points are very simplistic, which is surprising at this late stage in the health care reform debate. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/77 "2010-03-02T21:49:19Z")
We have a lot of wetlands, so ducks. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/78 "2010-03-02T21:56:03Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > The fact that Canada has a healthier popilation (if true) does not by itself mean that health care in Canada is better. There is more that goes into having a healthy population than the quality of its health care (for example, the quality and quantity of its fast food). > > The fact that less of Canada’s GDP goes to health care does not show that Canada’s health care system is better. In fact, it may show the exact opposite. The US very well may be better at diagnosing diseases and disorders, better able to keep sick people alive longer, and Americans may just choose to spend more on health care. Also, determining whether a dollar is spent on “health care” versus something that is not “health care” is obviously open to interpretation. > > The people that amaze and sadden you simply have a different opinion on the best direction for the US than you do. Many of them are probably amazed and saddened by you. You’ve trotted out these explanations before, and they really are not improving with age. The “Americans are exceptionally unhealthy because they eat exceptionally unhealthy diets” excuse is not convincing. Have you seen the diet that Canadians eat? Do you think we are all health food nuts? Of course, provincial governments do have programs to encourage healthy eating because this leads to less health costs in the long run. Imagine that! Government programs that lessen the impact of poverty also lead to better long term population health - imagine that! A government quasi-socialist program that works! Your other explanations are equally lame: > [@](#): > > The US very well may be better at diagnosing diseases and disorders As others have pointed out to you, if they are better at this, it should lead to better population health outcomes, yes? Since the outcomes are **not** better, perhaps your system is simply better at diagnosing “phantom” diseases that lead to profits for medical facilites (“have another full body MRI!” “restless leg syndrome? have a pill!!”) > [@](#): > > better able to keep sick people alive longer, Yes, must be the death panels we have up north. Did you not read “Canadians live healthily longer”?? If you are simply able to keep sick people alive longer, I expect you can find data to prove this, yes? > [@](#): > > and Americans may just choose to spend more on health care. That’s right, it’s your god-given CHOICE to waste money on bureaucratic , paper pushing managers whose only talent is to deny claims. It’s your CHOICE to have GP’s forced to have FOUR staff whose only job is to process claims and argue with insurance companies. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/79 "2010-03-02T22:00:23Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > WOW:eek:. Where do you live?! Calgary, but this happened in Edmonton. I have complaints brought on by the conservative razing of health care in this province, but none that will leave me bankrupt. > [@elucidator](#): > > Yeah, can I get a couple days of morphine drip for, say, $100? I’ll take the bus… Sure, but it’ll cost your spleen. You can get morphine on the streets; new organs are harder to come by. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/80 "2010-03-02T22:00:30Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Pro-UHC people also almost invariably fail to think about the non-health-related aspects of UHC, such as the effects of increased taxation and long-term wealth-redistributive entitlement programs, and the incentive for increased regulation over behaviors that could impact health issues. No, economic issues are currently being covered in another thread, where you are badly failing to provide any data whatsover to back up your claims. Countries that have had a form of UHC for DECADES simply do not have these problems that you CLAIM will happen. Your theology of Libertarianism is getting in the way of clear analysis of facts. When the facts don’t fit your preconceived notions, you either ignore them, hand wave them away, or invoke “American Exceptionalism” (it won’t work here, because we are unlike any other country on earth") [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594.md?page=5)