# I pit Senator Bunning for killing seniors **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 27, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594 "2010-02-27T01:34:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/101 "2010-03-02T23:54:33Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > The statistics on average lifespan and infant mortality etc would pick up this situation. You have to dig deeper. So far I haven’t seen pro-UHC people willing to dig deeper. They just trot out the same tired talking points that Muffin did. Silly boy, all you had to do to look at the average lifespan and infant mortality stats was to follow the links I posted back to the WHO. Now I don’t know if you are deliberately being intellectually dishonest or you just plain too stupid to follow the links to the data, but either way, you are simply wasting electrons with your vacuous posts. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/102 "2010-03-02T23:57:00Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Because you ignore factual information that is at odds with your worldview. I love how you keep saying this as I discuss every fact you bring up and you fail to understrand the points I’m making. Do you click your heels together when you say that? > [@](#): > > Health administration costs: [$1,059 per capita, as compared with $307 per capita in Canada.](http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/349/8/768) > > And yet you have the amazing BALLS to say that > So high administration costs are A-OK, as long as they’re done by private business, but as soon as they are incurred by a government, they’re bloated bureaucracy , right? Yes, if the businesses are allowed to compete in a free market. People should be free to choose the service providers they like best. If those service providers have high administration costs, then it doesn’t matter, they are doing the best job anyway. But reducing the government’s administration costs is different because people don’t have the choicew to not use UHC. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/103 "2010-03-03T00:06:16Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > People should be free to choose the service providers they like best. In Canada we are free to choose the service providers we like best. Too bad that you are so wrapped up in your ideology that you will not let truth and honesty stand in your way. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/104 "2010-03-03T00:33:34Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Silly boy, all you had to do to look at the average lifespan and infant mortality stats was to follow the links I posted back to the WHO. Now I don’t know if you are deliberately being intellectually dishonest or you just plain too stupid to follow the links to the data, but either way, you are simply wasting electrons with your vacuous posts. Oops, looks like I missed a “not” in that post. I meant to say that average lifespan and infant mortality would NOT pick up the situation I posted. Sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/105 "2010-03-03T00:33:36Z")
… ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/106 "2010-03-03T00:34:58Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > In Canada we are free to choose the service providers we like best. Too bad that you are so wrapped up in your ideology that you will not let truth and honesty stand in your way. I didn’t say or intimate that people in Cana were not free to choose the service providers they like best. I just said that “high” administration costs for services provided by the private sector are not automatically a bad thing when people are free to choose the service provider they like best. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/107 "2010-03-03T01:01:20Z")
To paraphrase something I heard on the radio this morning by a conservative commentator (local to DC area, you guys won’t know him), at least Bunning is standing up for something that the Senate[JUST PASSED](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/78533-senate-passes-paygo-rule-in-party-lines-vote), the paygo measure. He wants it paid for. Yes it’s only $10b. Yes, it’s a good idea that the aid to the downtrodden be passed. Yes, most of America (and the Senate, I suspect) wants it passed. But if the Democratic leadership (and it’s Reid driving this train, trying to distract from the coming trainwreck in Nov) won’t come up with the 10 large that Bunning demands to pay for something that _pretty much everyone_ is in favor of and costs so little (relatively speaking), then what’s the chances of them following their own paygo rules for \*any \*spending programs? And if they won’t do that, then why pass PayGo in the first place? It’s Bunning’s attempt at nuance, to hoist the Dems on their own petard. It won’t work, because most of America sees the simplistic story of the OP, and whenever you have to explain your vote, you’ve lost the argument. But the guy isn’t exactly crazy, per se. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/108 "2010-03-03T01:53:41Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You are simply wrong, and obviously so. The reason I hold my beliefs is that I think everyone would be better off under a government that is run according to my beliefs. I’m sure you feel the same way. I therefore don’t see how my philosophy is all about me. Your so called belief system is nothing more than Social Darwinism. Figuratively speaking, and exaggerating to make a point, the strong (those with wealth and power) eat the weak (those without). I thought we civilized people already rejected that. In “your” world, you would be chewed up and spit out just as quick as the rest of us. Added on edit: But this thread was supposed to be a pitting of Bunning, not all about you (as everything you touch seems to be), ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/109 "2010-03-03T01:59:05Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > It’s Bunning’s attempt at nuance, to hoist the Dems on their own petard. It won’t work, because most of America sees the simplistic story of the OP, and whenever you have to explain your vote, you’ve lost the argument. But the guy isn’t exactly crazy, per se. I guess subtlety isn’t one of his strong points. Personally, I see it as political grandstanding. And complaining about some not so important basketball game didn’t make many points with me. I’ve missed a lot of stuff on account of work. So what. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/110 "2010-03-03T02:01:25Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Your so called belief system is nothing more than Social Darwinism. Figuratively speaking, and exaggerating to make a point, the strong (those with wealth and power) eat the weak (those without). I have no idea how you got all of this out of my very simple theory of government. I just want the government’s activities to be very restricted, and protecting the rights of the weak are most definitely on the RR-approved list of government activities. > [@](#): > > I thought we civilized people already rejected that. In “your” world, you would be chewed up and spit out just as quick as the rest of us. I just have no idea what you think you mean here. > [@](#): > > Added on edit: But this thread was supposed to be a pitting of Bunning, not all about you (as everything you touch seems to be), I realize my post above was somewhat off-topic, but I just had to call Muffin on her bullshit (fighting ignorance, don’tcha know). EP has apparently given up. He’s probably asking the home office for better talking points. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/111 "2010-03-03T02:03:39Z")
No one is forcing me to go with Alberta Health for insurance, and I can see any doctor who’ll agree to see me. AHC does not have a say. I’ve never had comprehensive private insurance, so I don’t know if they’d try to dictate which doctor I’d see here. I have private supplementary insurance, though, and Sun Life doesn’t seem to care who I see so long as they cover the service and I provide receipts. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/112 "2010-03-03T02:12:43Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I guess subtlety isn’t one of his strong points. Personally, I see it as political grandstanding. And complaining about some not so important basketball game didn’t make many points with me. I’ve missed a lot of stuff on account of work. So what. Sorry, I don’t follow you. Bunning wants it paid for. The Dems evidently refuse to do so. He is calling them on their own rule, which they passed 60-40 on a party line vote not two months ago. Again, stupid politics, but I understand his point. Grandstanding? Perhaps. Edit to add: Bunning’s [backed down](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_budget_impasse) ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/113 "2010-03-03T02:15:33Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > To paraphrase something I heard on the radio this morning by a conservative commentator (local to DC area, you guys won’t know him), at least Bunning is standing up for something that the Senate[JUST PASSED](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/78533-senate-passes-paygo-rule-in-party-lines-vote), the paygo measure. . Did your commentator happen to mention that Mr Bunning and every last one of his fellow Republicans voted _against_ Paygo? Did he mention that the Paygo measure applies to the 2011 budget, rather than emergency spending in the current year? Mr Bunning is cynically using the legislation as an excuse to hold up the wheels of government. Every Republican in the senate agrees with him that fucking over Obama and the Democrats is more important than healthcare for the old, help for the unemployed, and safe roads for everyone. If Bunning didn’t have full backing of the GOP, his little filibuster would have died last week. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/114 "2010-03-03T02:22:04Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Added on edit: But this thread was supposed to be a pitting of Bunning, not all about you (as everything you touch seems to be), It’s like **curlcoat** without the pleasure of the napkin sandwiches. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/115 "2010-03-03T02:27:58Z")
Aside: [the filibuster’s over.](http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/02/jobless.benefits.bill/index.html?hpt=T1) Bunning will come out of this greatly admired by many conservatives. Then again, who knows what that’ll get him. As previously mentioned, it may’ve been bad for him politically in general because it required more nuance than usual. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/116 "2010-03-03T02:43:17Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Luci, I don’t want anyone to assume I’m right. I think we have ample evidence that just about no one does that. > [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Sorry, I don’t follow you. > > Bunning wants it paid for. The Dems evidently refuse to do so. He is calling them on their own rule, which they passed 60-40 on a party line vote not two months ago. > > Again, stupid politics, but I understand his point. Grandstanding? Perhaps. > > Edit to add: Bunning’s [backed down](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_budget_impasse) Bunning is a hypocrite of the highest order. He voted in favor of running up deficits for things we don’t need like the war on Iraq. Now he’s a deficit whore when it comes to the stuff we really do need like infrastructure and health care. In other words he’s the usual vacuous Republican pol with only an idiotic ideology and no real point other than obstructionism and extremist views. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/117 "2010-03-03T02:44:41Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Sorry, I don’t follow you. > > Bunning wants it paid for. The Dems evidently refuse to do so. He is calling them on their own rule, which they passed 60-40 on a party line vote not two months ago. > > Again, stupid politics, but I understand his point. Grandstanding? Perhaps. > > Edit to add: Bunning’s [backed down](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_budget_impasse) Backed down? That’s good news. I wonder what will happen next, after all this is the show that never ends. I can understand it being politics. I can see the underlying point - don’t writing checks you can’t cash, but I didn’t especially like the way it was done. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/118 "2010-03-03T02:46:25Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I didn’t say or intimate that people in Cana were not free to choose the service providers they like best. I just said that “high” administration costs for services provided by the private sector are not automatically a bad thing when people are free to choose the service provider they like best. So… inefficiency due to high administration costs are A-OK with you, as long as it’s the “free market” being inefficient. As long as people have a choice of which inefficient private company to use, it’s just peachy. The fact that under a UHC system, these administrative inefficiencies are greatly reduced just passes right by you eh? eta: sorry for not replying sooner **RR** old buddy. I have an actual job and life. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/119 "2010-03-03T02:46:50Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Aside: [the filibuster’s over.](http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/02/jobless.benefits.bill/index.html?hpt=T1) 78 to 19, wow. So even after Bunning surrenders, over half of the senate’s Republicans _still_ want to continue screwing over doctors, old folks, and the unemployed. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594/120 "2010-03-03T02:50:35Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > So… inefficiency due to high administration costs are A-OK with you, as long as it’s the “free market” being inefficient. As long as people have a choice of which inefficient private company to use, it’s just peachy. I already directly answered this exact question from you upthread. The answer is yes, absolutely, affirmative, YES. If consumers choose a particular service provider (e.g., a hair stylist, doctor, health insurer, etc.) then that’s the one they think is the best. It doesn’t matter what that service provider’s overhead is, and it doesn’t matter what the aggregate overhead of all such service providers is. > [@](#): > > The fact that under a UHC system, these administrative inefficiencies are greatly reduced just passes right by you eh? It doesn’t pass me by–I reject it as a benefit of UHC. > [@](#): > > eta: sorry for not replying sooner **RR** old buddy. I have an actual job and life. Meaning that it took you this long to think of a reply, which ended up being to repeat a point you attempted to make earlier. Nice job. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-senator-bunning-for-killing-seniors/530594.md?page=7)