# I pit some Canadians for making me want to defend Bush administration... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 2, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-some-canadians-for-making-me-want-to-defend-bush-administration/292632 "2005-03-02T18:46:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-some-canadians-for-making-me-want-to-defend-bush-administration/292632/41 "2005-03-02T22:51:25Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > Identity politics themselves aren’t a problem. It’s when your identity becomes an expression of self-superiority that it becomes extreme nationalism. The US, despite frequent accusations to the contrary, is awesomely tolerant of and assimilative of foreign cultures and peoples. > > The real problem with Canada is that its defined by what it is not: America. And these sorts of wars of words will always be with us until they either assimilate totally or find a positive idenitity. > > I don’t personally support the misile system, as god as it mgiht be for promoting certain space-oriented technologies. I favor the laser-defensive system. 🙂 Already much better. However, Bush and his staff do believe in the technology, and they may be correct. And there’s nothing morally or ethically wrong with them trying to stump, plead, or prod for others to join them on it. That is the entire point of having diplomatic corps. Very well said. Reasonable, balanced, insightful. What’s a guy like you doing in a forum like this? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-some-canadians-for-making-me-want-to-defend-bush-administration/292632/42 "2005-03-02T22:56:53Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Very well said. Reasonable, balanced, insightful. > > What’s a guy like you doing in a forum like this? > > 😉 Stop that. Just ignore him. You’re just going to encourage more of that kind of behaviour. 😉 \ I agree \*\*smiling bandit \*\* but I resent the fact that you’re able to express it in less posts than I. \ ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-some-canadians-for-making-me-want-to-defend-bush-administration/292632/43 "2005-03-02T23:01:11Z")
Pre scriptum: I cleaned up spelling in Word, but I may have accidentaly changed some of **Quick** ’s text by correction spelling errors… I’m not quite sure if I did though ,and I just wanted to alert you that I may have accidentaly and superfically changed some text. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > But now the US military has some of the best weaponry, no? Things changed for the better, yes? Technologies improved. After a good deal of time, and death, and only after it was painfully obvious that it wasn’t working. Yes, things get worked out eventually. But there is no indication that the missile defense system is anywhere near that point. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > No. \ You’re right. As of the last test and post on the subject… it still doesn’t work. Time to trash the lot and send everyone home. Well, let’s see. A) Missile defense is not a priority, it’s not even anywhere near the top of the list. B) It’s not currently working, and doesn’t look like it will any time soon. C) We’re asking you to sign onto a project that’s both unnecessary and impotent. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > No, we should not have refused on the grounds of a national identity crisis and the US being the boogie man trying to control Canadian sovereignty. We **are** trying to control your national sovereignty. Or do you claim that wanting carte blanche to use your airspace for a project which may never get off the ground is not a violation of your sovereign right to use your airspace and allow access as you see fit? And, I’m curious. Upon what grounds should you have objected? > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Tell you what, if we can get the aggressors lobbing the missiles to ask our permission to enter our airspace first and then we’ll insist that the US do the same. Pray tell, which aggressors, exactly, are we defending against? You wouldn’t have a problem with US jets and missiles being in your airspace, and perhaps damaging civilian populations, as long as another country struck first? Let’s say North Korea lobbed a nuke at us and for some reason it passed over Canada (I think the geography for this is all wrong, but anyway…) America chooses to shoot it down near a major Canadian population center. The warhead detonates. General prognosis: many megadeaths. No blame. (My ass no blame!) Doesn’t Canada have the right to dictate US terms of engagement within it’s sovereign airspace? > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Permission or not, do you really think for a second that the US will hesitate to enter our airspace due to a perceived threat? Yes, I think we would hesitate, because your airspace is sovereign and we have to ask permission before flying into it. If we can enter your airspace whenever we want, and do whatever we want, it becomes **our** airspace. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > They’ll do it and if anybody is still around and living, they’ll extend their sincere appologies. What’s Canada going to do? Declare war? How fast was Canadian airspace shut down on 9/11? Seems that whenever the US sneezes, Canada catches a cold anyway. Did the US, or Canadian government shut down Canadian airspace? Did we ask your government to cooperate, or did we simply, via fiat, declare that no Canadian jets would fly? > [@QuickSilver](#): > > The US military is our defensive strategy, policy and posture. Canada would shit the minute a single missile came accross the norther cap. If you tie your country’s safety to US foreign policy, you may very well be in for a rude awakening. There’s a reason why Al Queda targeted New York and not Quebec. Besides, your country is your own. I don’t expect you to act in strictest concert with our wishes, or our strategies, or our alliances. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > No it’s not. I’d rather we were bullied by the US than say, the former Soviet Union or some other unfriendly regime du jour So you’re giving your nation a choice between cancer and AIDS, and you think that’s a good thing? Personally, I’d rather that no countries were bullied, by the “good guys” or the “bad guys”. I’d also rather that my nation, in my name, did not sully our national honor by being a global bully. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > . Diplomacy is a negotiation not a bullying match. Canada has not done a great job of it, is all I’m saying. Right… so we bully you, how are you supposed respond? Honestly, you’re taking issue with it, but what should you do instead? Why is Canada expected to bow and scrape when we forgo diplomacy and tell you “Our way or the high way!” > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Yeah, but let us not be hypocrites about it. We like most US culture. We just don’t like to admit that we like it. To me these seem like totally different concepts. American cultural imperialism =/= a violation of sovereignty. Asking for carte blanche to your airspace is a violation of sovereignty. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-some-canadians-for-making-me-want-to-defend-bush-administration/292632/44 "2005-03-02T23:10:20Z")
I’ll also add to **Finn’s** fine post that our bullying is starting to lose it’s luster. Take of course this thread with Canada telling us to shove the MD up our ass, and also recently, Putin signing up with Iran. I suspect that more of this will happen as the world, finally sick of us will find more ways to wrok around us instead of with us. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-some-canadians-for-making-me-want-to-defend-bush-administration/292632/45 "2005-03-02T23:11:49Z")
I’m having a bad grammar week, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-some-canadians-for-making-me-want-to-defend-bush-administration/292632/46 "2005-03-02T23:16:29Z")
**Finn** , this is fun but our posts are getting ridiculously long with the back and forth quotes. I don’t know if anybody is going to be lobbing missiles at the US any time soon, if ever. If nobody does then the entire issue is moot. How the US chooses to spend their military budget is not Canada’s issue to decide or dictate. We just hope they’ll save our asses if ever that time comes. Look, all I’m suggesting is that Canada doesn’t rise to the very bating of which you critisize the Bush administration. We can make a case against participation but we’ve got to show some leadership and class by saying we have doubts about the efficacy of the proposed defense system and NOT call the US an imperialist pig and it’s leadership a bunch of hooved cattle. This entire airspace issue is just a red herring, btw. What ever happened to the sense of proportion in politics and life in general. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-some-canadians-for-making-me-want-to-defend-bush-administration/292632/47 "2005-03-02T23:49:28Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > **Finn** , this is fun but our posts are getting ridiculously long with the back and forth quotes. I know that long drawn out quote fests can get bothersome… but I see no other way to respond to specific bits of text. If you’d like, every few posts we can provide a ‘summary’ post? > [@QuickSilver](#): > > I don’t know if anybody is going to be lobbing missiles at the US any time soon, if ever. If nobody does then the entire issue is moot. The issue isn’t moot, becuase if it should ever happen, we’ve demanded the right to use your airspace however we see fit, without asking you first. The demand is still there whether or not it actually happens. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > How the US chooses to spend their military budget is not Canada’s issue to decide or dictate. True, as an American I feel that it’s a ridiculous outlay of money on a ridiculously unnecessary and ineffective project. But the issue isn’t whether or not Canada wants us to develop MD, but whether or not Canada has the right to control its own airspace. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > We just hope they’ll save our asses if ever that time comes. Just curious, but what enemies on the global stage does Canada have? I’m honestly curious… I’ve always thought of y’all kinda like Switzerland, but with more snow. Please clear up my ignorance. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > We can make a case against participation but we’ve got to show some leadership and class by saying we have doubts about the efficacy of the proposed defense system and NOT call the US an imperialist pig and it’s leadership a bunch of hooved cattle. This entire airspace issue is just a red herring, btw. Why is it a red herring? To me, your airspace’s integrity is a soverign right of your nation whether we have MD or laser defense or giant flying birds with microchips in their brains who can disarm missiles in flight. Even if MD worked flawlessly, it’s still your nation’s right to allow or disallow other nations to use their airspace. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > What ever happened to the sense of proportion in politics and life in general. Our ports aren’t secured, the borders aren’t secured, homeland security is inefficent and under funded, the war in Iraq was based on cherry picked intel, the U.S.A. P.A.T.R.I.O.T. act is limiting civil liberties, the Iraq campaign has consistenty been mismanged, Halliburton has (if we’re being very kind) “accidentally” overcharged our government, we’ve had Haliburton and others make money on foreign goods when Iraqis themselves can produce what they need and paying them would help their economy and society, we’ve violated the Geneva Convention and torture innocent civilians as a matter of policy, nine billion dollars just went ‘missing’ somewhere between the American tax payers and Iraq… but **gays want to marry!!!** Ahem, I mean, I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-some-canadians-for-making-me-want-to-defend-bush-administration/292632/48 "2005-03-03T00:11:31Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > True, as an American I feel that it’s a ridiculous outlay of money on a ridiculously unnecessary and ineffective project. Someone once said it’s the most expensive solution to the lease likely scenario. > [@](#): > > we’ve had Haliburton and others make money on foreign goods when Iraqis themselves can produce what they need and paying them would help their economy and society, speaking of this, re we still _importing_ oil into Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-some-canadians-for-making-me-want-to-defend-bush-administration/292632/49 "2005-03-03T00:24:32Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > speaking of this, re we still _importing_ oil into Iraq? Most of the cites I’ve been finding are from 2003, I’m looking for something more current re: oil imports. [Here is something else, however](http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/industry/halliburton.htm) > [@](#): > > # In December 2003, a DCAA draft audit reported that Halliburton overcharged the Defense Department by $61 million to import gasoline into Iraq from Kuwait through September 30, 2003. > > # On December 31, 2003, a DCAA “Flash Report” audit found “significant” and “systemic” deficiencies in the way Halliburton estimates and validates costs. According to the DCAA audit, Halliburton repeatedly violated the Federal Acquisition Regulation and submitted a $2.7 billion proposal that “did not contain current, accurate, and complete data regarding subcontract costs. > > # On January 13, 2004, DCAA concluded that Halliburton’s deficiencies “bring into question [Halliburton’s] ability to consistently produce well-supported proposals that are acceptable as a basis for negotiation of fair and reasonable prices,” and it urged the Corps of Engineers to “contact us to ascertain the status of [Halliburton’s] estimating system prior to entering into future negotiations. > > # In a May 13, 2004, audit, DCAA reported “several deficiencies” in Halliburton’s billing system that resulted in billings to the government that “are not prepared in accordance with applicable laws and regulations and contract terms.” DCAA also found “system deficiencies resulting in material invoicing misstatements that are not prevented, detected and/or corrected in a timely manner.” The report emphasized Halliburton’s inadequate controls over subcontract billings. The auditors “identified inadequate or nonexistent policies and procedures for notifying the government of potential significant subcontract problems that impact delivery, quality, and price” and determined that Halliburton “does not monitor the ongoing physical progress of subcontracts or the related costs and billings. > > # On June 25, 2004, the CPA IG found that, as a result of poor oversight, Halliburton charged U.S. taxpayers for unauthorized and unnecessary expenses at the Kuwait Hilton Hotel. According to the IG, the overcharges would have amounted to $3.6 million per year. > > # A July 26, 2004, CPA IG audit report found that Halliburton “did not effectively manage government property” and that the company’s property records “were not sufficiently accurate or available to properly account for CPA property items.” The IG “projected that property valued at more than $18.6 million was not accurately accounted for or was missing. > > # In July 2004, GAO found ineffective planning, inadequate cost control, and insufficient training of contract management officials under LOGCAP in Iraq. GAO reported that, when Halliburton acted as a middleman for the operation of dining halls, costs were over 40% higher. > > # In an August 16, 2004, memorandum, DCAA “identified significant unsupported costs” submitted by KBR, a Halliburton subsidiary, and found “numerous, systemic issues . . . with KBR’s estimates.” According to DCAA, “[w]hile contingency issues may have had an impact during the earlier stages of the procurements, clearly, the contractor should have adequate supporting data by now.” When DCAA examined seven LOGCAP task orders with a combined proposed value of $4.33 billion, auditors identified unsupported costs totaling $1.82 billion. > > # On November 23, 2004, the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction (formerly the CPA IG) examined a $569 million LOGCAP task order and found that Halliburton “did not provide . . . sufficiently detailed cost data to evaluate overall project costs or to determine whether specific costs for services performed were reasonable.” The IG concluded that the Army “did not receive sufficient or reliable cost information to effectively manage” the task order. [Here’s one from 2004](http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/iraq.html) > [@](#): > > At the present time, problems with Iraq’s refineries – stemming largely from post-war looting and sabotage, plus power outages – continue to force the country to import gasoline, diesel, liquid petroleum gas (LPG), and other refined products from neighboring countries (Iran, Jordan, Kuwait, Syria, and Turkey). As of October 2004, Oil Minister Ghadban said that Iraqi gasoline imports were running at around 40,000 bbl/d (mainly by truck), costing the country $60 million per month in direct costs. This does not include the additional cost steep government subsidies on the consumer price of gasoline, which runs at under 10 cents per gallon. It is estimated that, overall, direct and indirect oil subsidies cost Iraq $8 billion per year, with no indication as to when this problem might be resolved. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-some-canadians-for-making-me-want-to-defend-bush-administration/292632/50 "2005-03-03T00:41:09Z")
This is a big ol’ hijack, but I think we’re also importing concrete into Iraq while their own factories can produce it. Maybe we should open another thread to discuss it? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-some-canadians-for-making-me-want-to-defend-bush-administration/292632/51 "2005-03-03T00:42:43Z")
Holy shit! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-some-canadians-for-making-me-want-to-defend-bush-administration/292632/52 "2005-03-03T00:51:46Z")
I hear what you’re saying about the airspace issue. I’d be more inclined to agree with you if we were talking about a similar agreement between say… Russia and Ukrain. Two nations that have a fundamental distrust of one another but still have deep economic ties and long history. But we’re talking of Canada and the USA. Two nations with a deeply similar history and culture, to say nothing of our trade agreements. And then there is the issue of NORAD. We have a precedent of mutual military co-operation deeply related to objects entering national airspace. I don’t think Canada needs to fear any unwarranted airspace incursions by the US. More importantly, the US asked for co-operation for testing within Canadian airspace. I don’t recall anyone demanding it. Again, not sure what US military budget (mis)spending and Halliburton related issues have to do with any of this. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-some-canadians-for-making-me-want-to-defend-bush-administration/292632/53 "2005-03-03T01:11:01Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Look, Martin (and previously Chretien) didn’t handle it well and embarassed the Bush administration with these overly dramatic rants on how evil the US is. If you talk smack, expect to get slapped in the mouth. Martin et all just need to improve their diplomacy skills. Wait a fucking minute. I thought your rant was about this guy at U of T with his “stamp their little hoofies” comment. When did Paul Martin ever deliver an “overly dramatic rant on how evil the US is”? When the hell did Paul Martin ever “talk smack”? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-some-canadians-for-making-me-want-to-defend-bush-administration/292632/54 "2005-03-03T01:20:39Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I hear what you’re saying about the airspace issue. I’d be more inclined to agree with you if we were talking about a similar agreement between say… Russia and Ukrain. The principle involved is not one of maluse, but misuse. We don’t have a right to your airspace, even if we use it to drop fluffy teddy bears on your major cities. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > We have a precedent of mutual military co-operation deeply related to objects entering national airspace. Agreed, but you’re still allowed, as a soverign nation, to opt out at any time. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > . I don’t recall anyone demanding it. Of course we’re demanding it, and Condi won’t even visit your country unless you do what we tell you to. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Again, not sure what US military budget (mis)spending and Halliburton related issues have to do with any of this. Well, you asked about proportion so I answered, and then I realized it was a hijack so I stopped. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-some-canadians-for-making-me-want-to-defend-bush-administration/292632/55 "2005-03-03T01:21:49Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > More importantly, the US asked for co-operation for testing within Canadian airspace. I don’t recall anyone demanding it. Well they asked and the answer was no, so Condi goes storms off and pouts about it. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-some-canadians-for-making-me-want-to-defend-bush-administration/292632/56 "2005-03-03T02:48:59Z")
> [@Orbifold](#): > > Wait a fucking minute. I thought your rant was about this guy at U of T with his “stamp their little hoofies” comment. When did Paul Martin ever deliver an “overly dramatic rant on how evil the US is”? When the hell did Paul Martin ever “talk smack”? I didn’t mean to insinuate that Martin did any such thing. Martin didn’t. Neither did Chretien directly (I don’t think). But various gov’t members have maid some dumbass comments and have been called on the carpet for it. Sometimes not sternly enough. But I get the distict feeling that a general lack of civility towards America among the Canadian gov’t echelons of late has stirred an aplified knee jerk reaction mentality among some Canadians, not unlike this UofT prof. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-some-canadians-for-making-me-want-to-defend-bush-administration/292632/57 "2005-03-03T02:51:35Z")
I don’t understand why it’s a knee jerk reaction… I mean you agree that the US shouldn’t be able to set your policies for you without your consent. And the US **has** become increasingly unilateral and absolutist in it’s decrees. I know you view the airspace issue as a red herring, but isn’t the the central focus? The US presumes to tell you what to do with your soverign possesions, and if you disagree, we essentialy cut off high-level diplomatic contact. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-some-canadians-for-making-me-want-to-defend-bush-administration/292632/58 "2005-03-03T03:01:35Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > But various gov’t members have maid some dumbass comments and have been called on the carpet for it. Sometimes not sternly enough. This can be said for every govt on the face of the earth. > [@](#): > > But I get the distict feeling that a general lack of civility towards America among the Canadian gov’t echelons of late has stirred an aplified knee jerk reaction mentality among some Canadians, not unlike this UofT prof. Asshat bigotry in govt picked up by the populace, say it ain’t so! Wasn’t there something with “Freedom” fries a few years back or was that my imagination? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-some-canadians-for-making-me-want-to-defend-bush-administration/292632/59 "2005-03-03T03:03:34Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I know you view the airspace issue as a red herring, but isn’t the the central focus? The US presumes to tell you what to do with your soverign possesions, and if you disagree, we essentialy cut off high-level diplomatic contact. This is the crux of it right here. Imagine if someone pulled this shit on the US. We wouldn’t have harsh words, we’d probably say they had connections with AQ and invade their asses. I’m surprised there isn’t _more_ outrage in Canada. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-some-canadians-for-making-me-want-to-defend-bush-administration/292632/60 "2005-03-03T03:09:05Z")
I guess my reluctancy to try and convict the US as a brutal imperialist is due to the fact that a good half of the country voted against this administration. The pendulum will swing back and things will go back to a more “reflective” stance in the next election (or two). In the meantime, Canadians need to tone down the anti-American rhetoric because it’s just making us look like we’re jumping on that bandwagon with the rest of the half baked lunatics around the world. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-some-canadians-for-making-me-want-to-defend-bush-administration/292632.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-some-canadians-for-making-me-want-to-defend-bush-administration/292632.md?page=4)