# I Pit Sunrazor **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 27, 2008, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-sunrazor/454400 "2008-06-27T04:42:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-sunrazor/454400/41 "2008-06-27T14:46:15Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Some jurisdictions define it as “rape” by statute. [/QUOTE] You’re saying the government is always right? ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-sunrazor/454400/42 "2008-06-27T14:49:22Z")
[QUOTE=Alice The Goon] No, this thread is just an example of the ongoing and long-standing mob mentality we get around here sometimes. It’s been discussed very heatedly before, and I honestly didn’t mean to get it started again, but it sickens me when it happens in society (lynch mobs out for blood), and it sickens me here. [/quote] I honestly don’t get this. What if we were dealing with someone who said all left-handed Puerto Ricans should be put to death, or some other form of completely indefensible racist/sexist/homophobic/divisive opinion, and 900 people dropped by to say “Holy shit! I can’t believe you said that! Are you out of your mind??” Are they then a mob? Just because a bunch of people all hold the same opinion or reach the same conclusion, that doesn’t turn them into some “mob” that is merely “out for blood.” Some opinions are pretty well indefensible, and offensive to those who hear them. Telling the mother of a sexually assaulted 8 year old that she overreacted by calling the cops, because boys will be boys, is one of them. The number and vociferousness of the responses indicates not a “mob mentality” but rather the stupidity and offensivenes of **Sunrazor’s** post. > [@](#): > > Of course I don’t agree with that doofus, but why, WHY can’t someone have a different opinion on this board without being crucified for it? Because his opinion was not just “different” but stupid, offensive, and hurtful, that’s why. It’s not like we drag out the cross, spikes, and hammer for every differing opinion, but some times that treatment is pretty well deserved. A lot of opinions are “different” – real different, and not in a good way. Why does “difference” alone immunize them from criticism? You can hear or read about someone telling a mother to stop overreacting to the fact that teenagers made her child put their dicks in her mouth and “say ‘Yeah, whatever, dude,’ and get on with your life.” Good for you; I won’t censure you for it. But that obviously is something that would piss off a hell of a lot of people, and the fact that your mileage varies doesn’t (a) make them a mob or (b) make you right. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-sunrazor/454400/43 "2008-06-27T15:07:27Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] You’re saying the government is always right? [/QUOTE] Yeah, that’s \*exactly \*what he said, dumbass. How about you explain why a 14 year old forcing an 8 year old to have oral sex is \*not \*a violation, \*not \*rape? I’m on tenterhooks. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-sunrazor/454400/44 "2008-06-27T15:09:01Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] You’re saying the government is always right? [/QUOTE] So if someone forced you to suck their cock, you wouldn’t consider that rape? ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-sunrazor/454400/45 "2008-06-27T15:11:09Z")
[QUOTE=Orual] Because forced oral sex IS rape. What the hell else would you call it? And it’s incredibly unlikely that the little girl in question is reading this message board, so your concerns about her psychological health seem disingenuous to say the least. [/QUOTE] No, she does not read this board. When I get to the “funny bits” in certain threads that I think she might appreciate, I’ll share them with her, but her interests are still more geared towards neopets and such. And just to clarify, in her presence, I’ve not used the words “raped”, “assaulted” or even “sexually molested”. I really don’t need to be using words that emotionally loaded in what is already a volatile situation. > [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > It is reasonable to question what an eight-year-old means by “forced”. Physical force? “We won’t play with you anymore otherwise!”? Hell, _I_ don’t know what she means by “forced”. I’m not questioning her about it, because I don’t want her thinking about it more than she needs to already, and I’d like her to not have to start focusing on this full-time. The officer who interviewed her may have asked her. CPS will almost certainly clarify. What matters _to me_ is that she felt forced. She didn’t mention weapons or threats of violence, so those things are _probably_ not involved. But she _was_ coerced. It doesn’t take much to coerce an 8YO. Hell, I can “force” her to clean her freakin’ room by promising her a dollar for every bag of toys she donates to Goodwill or something. ---
**Author:** ![Risha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@Risha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Risha)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-sunrazor/454400/46 "2008-06-27T15:13:09Z")
The more I think about it, the more I think that **Alice The Goon** had been waiting for the most deserved pitting that she thought would be found on the boards this month to drop her steaming pile of bullshit about mob mentality on the boards into. Not that I’m calling her a troll; I’m thinking that she just wanted to make some sort of asinine point, and doing so during an RO or mini-rant thread wouldn’t have garnered enough attention. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-sunrazor/454400/47 "2008-06-27T15:14:21Z")
> [@](#): > > How about you explain why a 14 year old forcing an 8 year old to have oral sex is not a violation, not rape? I’m on tenterhooks. What are you trying to accomplish with that sentence? Unless you’re just typing to hear the sound of your fingers, you’re trying to imply that I’m peachy keen with the action, which I’ve made clear I’m not. You seem to be part of the torch holders, like the perpetual rape-cryer Diogenes, who labels everything with that word. It’s just so predictable that there would be this outrage contest here over who is the most worked up over Sunrazor and the original thread. You could certainly make the case that one could use the two words you are asking me to defend my caution in the use of, but it’s my opinion that it causes more harm than good, in muddying up the English language. Is sexual assault just not bad enough for you? You’d be okay with people doing that as long as it’s not “rape”? > [@](#): > > So if someone forced you to suck their cock, you wouldn’t consider that rape? If I were trying to get them in jail or working up sympathy, maybe. But not really. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-sunrazor/454400/48 "2008-06-27T15:14:24Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] I mean really. “Violated”? “Raped”? Why even use the first word, when it could only lead to (further?) psychological traumatization of the victim? [/QUOTE] If **norine** was using that term to her daughter, I could understand your objection. Of course you don’t want to encourage someone who’s been molested to think of herself as a victim and let it define her. But **norine** said she’s not acting any differently towards her daughter than she ever has. So I don’t see the harm in using that term in discussing the incident with people other than **mudgirl**. Especially since what happened was a violation. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-sunrazor/454400/49 "2008-06-27T15:21:44Z")
[QUOTE=norinew] And just to clarify, in her presence, I’ve not used the words “raped”, “assaulted” or even “sexually molested”. I really don’t need to be using words that emotionally loaded in what is already a volatile situation. [/QUOTE] Again, you seem to have a much clearer head than just about anyone else posting to this or the other thread. Be proud. Be really, really proud. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-sunrazor/454400/50 "2008-06-27T15:37:15Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Again, you seem to have a much clearer head than just about anyone else posting to this or the other thread. Be proud. Be really, really proud. [/QUOTE] Thanks. 😉 If you keep saying nice stuff like that, I’ll start thinking you really _are_ pretty bright, in spite of your username. 🆒 > [@Ludovic](#): > > Is sexual assault just not bad enough for you? You’d be okay with people doing that as long as it’s not “rape”? Again, I’ll clarify, just in case someone didn’t read the memo: I am _not_ using that language around my daughter. I’ve used the term “sexually assaulted” in regards to the situation when talking with a couple of other people, but not with her. With her, it’s just “assault” or “that bad thing the boys did”. No doubt that someone would take issue with _that_ and think I should be using more legally correct terms with her. Well, I never claimed I’m not making any mistakes here. I’m a parent. Mistakes kind of come with the territory. I’m just struggling through and doing the best I can with what I’ve got. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-sunrazor/454400/51 "2008-06-27T15:47:41Z")
Why do so many poster locations have some kind of “Obama” refrence? Seems kinda weird to me… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-sunrazor/454400/52 "2008-06-27T15:51:36Z")
[QUOTE=Gatopescado] Why do so many poster locations have some kind of “Obama” refrence? Seems kinda weird to me… [/QUOTE] Election year. Things will go back to normal in a few months. You’ll have to excuse us. non-conservatives haven’t had a candidate they could get really excited about since like 1968. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-sunrazor/454400/53 "2008-06-27T15:52:36Z")
[QUOTE=Gatopescado] Why do so many poster locations have some kind of “Obama” refrence? [/QUOTE] See [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=470807&page=1&pp=40) thread. (Current count is 119) ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-sunrazor/454400/54 "2008-06-27T16:09:59Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] See [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=470807&page=1&pp=40) thread. (Current count is 119) [/QUOTE] Ah. Missed that. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-sunrazor/454400/55 "2008-06-27T16:48:37Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] If I were trying to get them in jail or working up sympathy, maybe. But not really. [/QUOTE] Why not? This is an honest question, I am not trying to be snarky. It’s possibly less physically damaging than vaginal or anal rape (though there are overlapping ranges of physical trama for all three), but physical harm isn’t the main issue for any sort of rape–if it were just about the physical aspects, we’d prosecute it all as assault. So why is vaginal/anal rape somehow a worse crime, and it’s hyperbolic to use the term for forced oral sex? ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-sunrazor/454400/56 "2008-06-27T17:37:30Z")
[QUOTE=Manda JO] Why not? This is an honest question, I am not trying to be snarky. It’s possibly less physically damaging than vaginal or anal rape (though there are overlapping ranges of physical trama for all three), but physical harm isn’t the main issue for any sort of rape–if it were just about the physical aspects, we’d prosecute it all as assault. So why is vaginal/anal rape somehow a worse crime, and it’s hyperbolic to use the term for forced oral sex? [/QUOTE] Thank you for asking this question. Like you, I’m not trying to be snarky. I’d honestly like to know what the rationale is for this kind of thinking. I have stopped short of using the term “rape”, I will leave that up to the police, after a full investigation, to label as such or not. But _if_ the incident happened _exactly_ as she said it did (and as her mother, it’s kind of my job to believe it did, don’t you think?), rape is, by definition, what it is. I _am_ grateful that there was nothing that happened to cause lasting physical damage. When I was sexually molested for years as a child, there was never penetration, though, so I, more than a lot of people, _know_ that it’s not all (or even mostly) about physical damage. It’s about psychological damage. I have a fine line to walk, between minimizing it to the point where it seems irrelevant, and maximizing it to the point where it starts to define her life, and who she sees herself as. It’s hard, but I’m doing the best I can. Again, I want to thank you and all the Dopers who’ve come out to voice their support, both in the fora and in PMs and emails. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-sunrazor/454400/57 "2008-06-27T21:24:50Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] What are you trying to accomplish with that sentence? Unless you’re just typing to hear the sound of your fingers, you’re trying to imply that I’m peachy keen with the action, which I’ve made clear I’m not. [/QUOTE] You’re the one who said the terms somehow were an offense against the language. I simply want you to explain why. Despite repeated requests, you continue to refuse, instead spouting non sequitors like “You’re saying the government is always right?” > [@](#): > > You seem to be part of the torch holders, like the perpetual rape-cryer Diogenes, who labels everything with that word. No, he doesn’t. Even allowing for excessive hyperbole on your part, he doesn’t. Talk about “muddying the language.” > [@](#): > > It’s just so predictable that there would be this outrage contest here over who is the most worked up over Sunrazor and the original thread. Why didn’t you predict it, then? > [@](#): > > You could certainly make the case that one could use the two words you are asking me to defend my caution in the use of, but it’s my opinion that it causes more harm than good, in muddying up the English language. Is sexual assault just not bad enough for you? You’d be okay with people doing that as long as it’s not “rape”? What the fuck are you on about? Are you fucking nuts? Where do you get the idea that I would be OK with it if it were named something else? Please try to be specific in your answer. Let’s concentrate on _violation_ for now, although if forced oral sex is statutorily rape I really don’t see how there is any muddying going on. How is such behavior not a _violation_? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-sunrazor/454400/58 "2008-06-27T21:26:47Z")
[QUOTE=norinew] I have a fine line to walk, between minimizing it to the point where it seems irrelevant, and maximizing it to the point where it starts to define her life, and who she sees herself as. It’s hard, but I’m doing the best I can. [/QUOTE] Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-sunrazor/454400/59 "2008-06-27T22:31:58Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Thank you. [/QUOTE] I don’t have any idea why you’re thanking me. Really. I do, however, thank _all_ of you. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-sunrazor/454400/60 "2008-06-27T22:35:59Z")
[QUOTE=norinew] I don’t have any idea why you’re thanking me. Really. [/QUOTE] 'Cause I’ve been trying to figure out how to tell you what you knew all along, only I didn’t want to come off sounding like **Sunrazor**. It might be that she’s deeply hurt, and it might not. And your guessing wrong could create hurt where it isn’t already. But you know that already, unlike my family. So thank you for understanding what I wish they had. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-sunrazor/454400.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-sunrazor/454400.md?page=4)