# I pit the American PR arm of ISIS and murderous Muslim Radicals. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 20, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-american-pr-arm-of-isis-and-murderous-muslim-radicals/757912 "2016-06-20T19:55:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-american-pr-arm-of-isis-and-murderous-muslim-radicals/757912/81 "2016-06-22T12:59:24Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > **I pit the American PR arm of ISIS and murderous Muslim Radicals.** > > PR arm of ISIS. The White House. You have got to be one of the dumber people that I will cross paths with today. Try not to stick your fingers in any electrical outlets. Until you look into the mirror. You forgot about that. But thank you for your valuable contribution, dummy. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-american-pr-arm-of-isis-and-murderous-muslim-radicals/757912/82 "2016-06-22T13:01:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > You can’t possibly believe there’s no connection between the two. No, I do not believe there is no connection. Absolutely not. But that fact does not negate my point. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-american-pr-arm-of-isis-and-murderous-muslim-radicals/757912/83 "2016-06-22T13:01:57Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Until you look into the mirror. You forgot about that. > > But thank you for your valuable contribution, dummy. I can see why Trump turned you down as Head Insult Writer. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-american-pr-arm-of-isis-and-murderous-muslim-radicals/757912/84 "2016-06-22T13:14:32Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Magellan, before I start on the invective, I remember you being, if not the most reasonable poster on the board, at least above _this_. This thread sounds more like something **Clothahump** would post. So let me ask you two questions. > > 1. Why, exactly, does censuring the man’s mention of ISIS turn the censures into the American propaganda arm of ISIS? Three reasons, combined: 1. It was a dumb thing to do. 2. It fits with the other “protection” Obama tries to give Islam. 3. This is The Pit. Over-The-Topr-Invrctivr is what it’s for. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > They’re trying to _reduce_ ISIS’s exposure, and I think it’d be pretty hard to argue that reducing ISIS’s exposure would help their recruitment effort. Everyone knows this guy was a Muslim, everyone knows he pledged allegiance to ISIS - that all made the news a week or so ago; it’s not being hidden from us. It’s common knowledge. So why does this act as propaganda _for_ ISIS? For the very reasons you state. What is the possible upside, if not to create a tad more doubt about Islam being at the foundation of this cowardly, murderous acts? > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > 1. Who are our enemies, exactly? When you keep saying “step one”, do you honestly think there’s some confusion? ISIS is the enemy. Islamists are the enemy. But my friend Bilal who lives down the street is not the enemy, despite being a practicing Muslim. (By the way? He knows I’m bisexual and is perfectly fine with that.) Hell, Obama [had a speech talking about exactly this issue not long ago](http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/06/14/482041137/president-obama-slams-yapping-over-radical-islam-and-terrorism). He’s actively trying to win the hearts and minds of Muslims, because if we can’t do that, there’s no way in hell we can win the war on terror - after all, there are more Muslims in the world than Americans. Why do you keep acting like Obama legitimately doesn’t “know who the enemy is”? He gets it. I kinda think you don’t. . I think he knows, he just doesn’t want to admit it. He _wants_ to his Kumbaya world view to be correct. But reality doesn’t care what he wants. He’s not dealing with reality and allowing his desires to affect his course of action—a course of action that would make American safer. As far as to who the enemy is, it is Islamic Extremists, yes. But it’s not just them. It may oe be your friend down the street, but it is more than just those who are willing to kill people. It’s the family members, friends and others who know—or have a strong suspicion—who these murderous scumbags are and keep their mouths shut. Check out the Pew poll I sighted earlier. On a spectrum defining who this enemy is, with the murderers themselves on one end and all of islam on the other, we are somewhere between the two points. **That** is what should be acknowledged. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-american-pr-arm-of-isis-and-murderous-muslim-radicals/757912/85 "2016-06-22T13:15:48Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > No. Not giving him any press might be the best thing, but it’s just not possible in todays world. Or do you disagree? Do you think it is possible for an event like that to occur and the government work with media—ALL media—to not talk about it? I don’t. > > And that’s not even what the government was trying to do. They, with this instance and others, do not want Islam to get a bad rap. They have this Kumbaya attitude, which is nice, but doesn’t work in a world where Muslim Extremists want to kill innocent people. We’re told to keep our eyes open and support suspicious activity or individuals, that that’s is the best thing we can do. Okay, well don’t you think that knowing what to keep an eye out for is helpful information. Every time the White House, a police department or news outlet tries to protect Islam (or minorities) but not giving us as much info about the perpetrator as possible, they make people less safe. If there was a serial rapist raping women in a city and there was information describing him as being black or Arab-looking, or Asian or having red hair, don’t you think that information is helpful to women? > > This knee-jerk mistake made by The White House was just that: knee-jerk and a mistake. I think the 911 call stuff was silly, but overall it’s a difference in opinion on strategy. It’s not that they’re “kumbaya” and PC and crap – it’s that they think the best way to defeat ISIS and other radicals is to get as many Muslims as possible on their side, and they think that one of the ways to do that is to be very careful with language to avoid painting Islam with a broad brush. You might disagree about this strategy, but this really is the reason why the WH and others use different language and characterizations when discussing Muslim terrorism. It’s not kumbaya and PC nonsense, it’s an actual rhetorical strategy meant to help defeat the radical Muslim terrorists. Disagree on the strategy, if you wish, but there’s nothing to be gained from pretending that the reasons for their nuanced rhetoric are something other than what they are. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-american-pr-arm-of-isis-and-murderous-muslim-radicals/757912/86 "2016-06-22T13:17:15Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I can see why Trump turned you down as Head Insult Writer. Says you, you, you…you doc-doo head!!! ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-american-pr-arm-of-isis-and-murderous-muslim-radicals/757912/87 "2016-06-22T13:18:03Z")
Huh … and here I thought this was all Britain’s fault … damn, it’s hard to know who to hate anymore. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-american-pr-arm-of-isis-and-murderous-muslim-radicals/757912/88 "2016-06-22T13:24:39Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > **I pit the American PR arm of ISIS and murderous Muslim Radicals.** > > PR arm of ISIS. The White House. You have got to be one of the dumber people that I will cross paths with today. Try not to stick your fingers in any electrical outlets. Welcome to The Pit, genius. Don’t repeatedly bang your face into any brick walls today. It might hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-american-pr-arm-of-isis-and-murderous-muslim-radicals/757912/89 "2016-06-22T13:59:37Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Welcome to The Pit, genius. Don’t repeatedly bang your face into any brick walls today. It might hurt. It’s true. He speaks from experience. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-american-pr-arm-of-isis-and-murderous-muslim-radicals/757912/90 "2016-06-22T14:06:57Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Welcome to The Pit, genius. Don’t repeatedly bang your face into any brick walls today. It might hurt. You understand that you’ve just insulted yourself, right? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-american-pr-arm-of-isis-and-murderous-muslim-radicals/757912/91 "2016-06-22T14:52:41Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > **I pit the American PR arm of ISIS and murderous Muslim Radicals.** > > PR arm of ISIS. The White House. You have got to be one of the dumber people that I will cross paths with today. Try not to stick your fingers in any electrical outlets. > [@magellan01](#): > > Until you look into the mirror. You forgot about that. > > But thank you for your valuable contribution, dummy. > [@magellan01](#): > > Welcome to The Pit, genius. Don’t repeatedly bang your face into any brick walls today. It might hurt. You might want to respond to that post one more time. The first two didn’t take. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-american-pr-arm-of-isis-and-murderous-muslim-radicals/757912/92 "2016-06-22T15:00:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think the 911 call stuff was silly, but overall it’s a difference in opinion on strategy. It’s not that they’re “kumbaya” and PC and crap – it’s that they think the best way to defeat ISIS and other radicals is to get as many Muslims as possible on their side, and they think that one of the ways to do that is to be very careful with language to avoid painting Islam with a broad brush. > > You might disagree about this strategy, but this really is the reason why the WH and others use different language and characterizations when discussing Muslim terrorism. It’s not kumbaya and PC nonsense, it’s an actual rhetorical strategy meant to help defeat the radical Muslim terrorists. Disagree on the strategy, if you wish, but there’s nothing to be gained from pretending that the reasons for their nuanced rhetoric are something other than what they are. Well said. Unfortunately, that’s a nuanced and subtle point, so it’s unlikely to be acknowledged or meaningfully responded to. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-american-pr-arm-of-isis-and-murderous-muslim-radicals/757912/93 "2016-06-22T15:15:46Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Magellan, before I start on the invective, I remember you being, if not the most reasonable poster on the board, at least above _this_. This thread sounds more like something **Clothahump** would post. Seconded. This is beneath even you, **mag.** ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-american-pr-arm-of-isis-and-murderous-muslim-radicals/757912/94 "2016-06-22T15:23:44Z")
I gotta admit, I really don’t get what the big deal is about this. Aside from giving ISIL free advertising, what purpose is served by releasing the transcript? It seems to me that we’d put a big dent into mass murders- terrorist or otherwise- if we just stopped treating the shooters like heroes. Just let them die the ignominious deaths they deserve. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-american-pr-arm-of-isis-and-murderous-muslim-radicals/757912/95 "2016-06-22T15:56:02Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Three reasons, combined: > > 1. It was a dumb thing to do. > 2. It fits with the other “protection” Obama tries to give Islam. Protection for Islam that is: A) Strategically useful for us B) Harmful for ISIS C) Helpful to the Americans who are muslims and are increasingly being attacked for their faith because of morons who can’t tell the difference between Osama Bin Laden and Mohammad the carpet cleaner. > [@](#): > > 1. This is The Pit. Over-The-Topr-Invrctivr is what it’s for. There’s over-the-top invective, and then there’s being fucking retarded. If I call my neighbors unredeemable assholes because they fail to pick up their garbage, that’s over the top. If I call them communist spies because they offer me a pie, that’s being fucking retarded. This thread was clearly the latter. > [@](#): > > For the very reasons you state. What is the possible upside, if not to create a tad more doubt about Islam being at the foundation of this cowardly, murderous acts? Give ISIS less press? Again, I’d like to assume that the president > [@](#): > > I think he knows, he just doesn’t want to admit it. He _wants_ to his Kumbaya world view to be correct. AHEM. > **[President Obama Slams 'Yapping' Over 'Radical Islam' And Terrorism](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/06/14/482041137/president-obama-slams-yapping-over-radical-islam-and-terrorism)** > > "It's a political talking point. It's not a strategy," Obama said in a lengthy speech in which he also criticized Donald Trump's proposals for Muslim immigrants. I linked this in the last post. Obama, and everyone else in Washington, is _well aware_ of the problem, and who the enemy is. > [@](#): > > But reality doesn’t care what he wants. He’s not dealing with reality and allowing his desires to affect his course of action—a course of action that would make American safer. Why don’t you answer his question, then? How would saying “Radical Islamic Terrorism” help make America safer? How would releasing the unabridged transcripts make America safer? What, exactly, will we accomplish here? > [@](#): > > As far as to who the enemy is, it is Islamic Extremists, yes. But it’s not just them. It may oe be your friend down the street, but it is more than just those who are willing to kill people. It’s the family members, friends and others who know—or have a strong suspicion—who these murderous scumbags are and keep their mouths shut. Check out the Pew poll I sighted earlier. Fair enough. Now how do you think we reach these crucial people? By shouting about “RADICAL ISLAMIC TERRORISM” and threatening to ban Muslims from the country? Or by reaching out an olive branch, treating ISIS (as a great many Muslims do) as _non-Muslims_, and repudiating the voices who try to condemn all muslims as violent terrorists? In other words, not publicly putting forward this face: > [@](#): > > On a spectrum defining who this enemy is, with the murderers themselves on one end and all of islam on the other, we are somewhere between the two points. **That** is what should be acknowledged. Even Bush figured that one out. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-american-pr-arm-of-isis-and-murderous-muslim-radicals/757912/96 "2016-06-22T16:07:16Z")
From here, it looks like the ISIL connection was something of an afterthought for the murderer. But what was interesting about it was how quickly ISIL leaped to claim him as their own, that he was part of their recently threatened campaign of individual terrorists running amok at their command. As a single monstrous act, it is awful. As part of a massive worldwide campaign of terror orchestrated by ISIL, it is bullshit. But they were on it like a starving dog on a Bolton. They’re losing. Only good news in any of this tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-american-pr-arm-of-isis-and-murderous-muslim-radicals/757912/97 "2016-06-22T16:19:17Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > But they were on it like a starving dog on a Bolton. Too soon? Naaah, it’s _never_ too soon for this… ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-american-pr-arm-of-isis-and-murderous-muslim-radicals/757912/98 "2016-06-22T16:23:11Z")
Carnac the Magnificent holds an envelope to his head. “What Don Rickles would sound like if he had a lobotomy.” Ed McMahon chuckles, and repeats, “If he had a lobotomy!” Carnac rips on the short end of the envelope, blows in it, and pulls out a piece of paper. He examines it for a moment, and then takes a deep breath. “Oh shit,” says Carnac. The paper reads: > [@magellan01](#): > > Until you look into the mirror. You forgot about that. > > But thank you for your valuable contribution, dummy. . . . > > Welcome to The Pit, genius. Don’t repeatedly bang your face into any brick walls today. It might hurt. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-american-pr-arm-of-isis-and-murderous-muslim-radicals/757912/99 "2016-06-22T16:26:30Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Well said. Unfortunately, that’s a nuanced and subtle point, so it’s unlikely to be acknowledged or meaningfully responded to. Thank you. Hopefully **magellan01** won’t fall into this category, but it’s always disheartening when folks skip over the attempts at reasonable and thoughtful responses and only respond to the insults and needling. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-american-pr-arm-of-isis-and-murderous-muslim-radicals/757912/100 "2016-06-22T17:45:34Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > I gotta admit, I really don’t get what the big deal is about this. Aside from giving ISIL free advertising, what purpose is served by releasing the transcript? > > It seems to me that we’d put a big dent into mass murders- terrorist or otherwise- if we just stopped treating the shooters like heroes. Just let them die the ignominious deaths they deserve. I sat through when PBS showed a picture and name of each of the victims in Orlando … just so I could say I’ve seen each … yes, I’ve heard the shooter’s name over 49 times … and I will never use it … he’s the Orlando Fruitcake and I hope he’s seeing the error of his ways, 72 virgin ewes does NOT sound like paradise to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-american-pr-arm-of-isis-and-murderous-muslim-radicals/757912.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-american-pr-arm-of-isis-and-murderous-muslim-radicals/757912.md?page=6)