Right, because this is an isolated incident we can’t possibly fit into the bigger picture. No student organization would cancel yoga classes at a university because appropriating Indian culture is problematic, nobody would harass the owners of a Portland burrito cart for appropriating Mexican culture, and nobody argued that Wizard’s of the Coast should stop selling the 35 year old AD&D Oriental Adventures because it appropriated Asian cultures (Okay, that last one was really geeky).
What’s going to eventually happen is that people are going to be afraid to make any mention of anything outside certain cultures for fear of being called racist or of appropriation. Like I said, I’m not going to expend any effort to defend Trader Joe’s marketing ploys, but at the same time I still think bitching about Trader Jose is pretty fucking stupid.
We all have our lines where we say this side is OK and this side isn’t. I’m a pretty liberal guy and I strive to be open-minded about new things, aware of micro-aggressions, and working to rid myself of whatever remaining racism I have from my youth.
In this case, I think the objections are overblown. Trader Joe’s certainly wasn’t racist in intent, and I don’t think they were racist or even insensitive in practice. Trader Ming’s, for example, wasn’t saying that Chinese Americans aren’t fully American or anything like that – it’s meant to represent food from China, not food that Chinese Americans eat. The Chinese Americans I know eat things like hamburgers, pasta, Greek food, sushi, salads, etc. They probably even eat Chinese take-out, although we didn’t have one near my work so I didn’t see it.
I won’t boycott TJs if they change the names – they can call their product whatever they want. I also won’t boycott them if they don’t, because I disagree what these names are offensive.
What you’re being criticized for is arguing the merits of one thing based on the merits of something else entirely. I agree with you that the (sometimes valid) notion of cultural appropriation has been undermined by ludicrous overuse of the concept by self-righteous idiots where it’s completely inapplicable. If someone actually starts accusing supermarkets of cultural appropriation for selling ethnic foods at all, I’m more than happy to join you in telling them (the accuser) to fuck off.
Like I say, we all have our lines. Blackface is wrong to both of us (I imagine). This complaint is ridiculous to me, but not to you. Complaining about them selling ethnic foods would be ridiculous to both of us.
This petition should be the subject of ridicule, in my opinion. You would think a petition to have them stop selling ethnic foods would be subject to ridicule as well.
We all have our lines and this falls on the wrong side of it, to me.
I pit online petitions becoming news. I can post something on Reddit and get thousands of upvotes. Get a few hundred signatures on an online petition is nothing.
I think Trader Joe is responding to this as a PR move, rather than out of any sense or acknowledgement of racial insensitivity. To that extent, it’s a prudent business decision in this socio-political climate. While I did think it was overly cute to use the ethnic variations on the name Joe, I also wonder if a Trader Jose in Mexico city with corresponding labels, would have the same reaction? Those who are offended by it, whether personally on on behalf of others, probably feel a sense of victory. Perhaps they can capitalize on the momentum of the win and go after Cog-Agra on brand names such as Le Choy and Chun-King, among others.
Sure, but you’re implying that it’s just arbitrary where that line is drawn. Differences of opinion like this are all the more reason to avoid “slippery slope” arguments and argue things out on their own merits, to try to discern whether there are genuine qualitative differences and pin down exactly what is really problematic.
I’ve seen tons of arguments here where someone says, “this is PC out of control” or “this are SJWs being too woke” or whatever right-wing bullshit they spouted. I nearly always disagreed with them.
Now it’s my turn – I think this gives “my side” a bad name. These cutesy names were harmless and perpetuated no stereotypes. This petition is stupid and, as enalzi says, should never have made the news.
So if you make an argument in the Pit that’s not clear and concise, I should treat it as valid as though it were clear and concise, on the basis that if we were discussing this in Great Debates you would have made a clear and concise argument?
(I probably could have expressed that more clearly and concisely. But I now realize that’s unnecessary.)
I humbly submit that the standards for dialogue in the Pit are not the same as they are in Great Debates or General Questions. But I don’t think I care to get bogged down in this and have no desire to pursue the conversation any further.
And I humbly acknowledge that you have successfully adhered to this low standard that you advocate in the arguments that you have put forward in this thread.
If it’s the Kooks Burritos incident you’re talking about, they brought it upon themselves when they posted videos in which they boasted and laughed about badgering poor Mexican women, spying on them, and stealing their recipes without their permission.
That’s not what happened. Also, you can’t “steal” a recipe because recipes can’t be copyrighted. No-one needs your permission to cook what you cook. Also, they didn’t “badger” anyone, nor did they boast about doing so. That’s just a flat-out lie.
The difference is, of course, that while the NFL team name was an insult, “Yossi” is a perfectly normal and common name. Or do you think there’s something funny about it?
I posit that claiming that the hypothetical name “Trader Yossi’s” is more offensive than “Trader Joe’s” implies that “Joe” is somehow different from “Yossi”, which is in and of itself offensive.
This is true, but not in the way you think. In GD or GQ, if you make a lazy, poorly sourced, or outright deceitful argument, we’re allowed to call you a dumb-ass motherfucker. In other forums, we have to pretend that your turd in the punchbowl is actually a valid contribution to the discussion.
I’m about half German, when you add it all up. But, I’m only about 10% chocolate. It used to be 5%, but what with the lock down, by usage has increased.
