# I pit the assholes who are calling the Trump sons disgusting for hunting in Africa **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 14, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-assholes-who-are-calling-the-trump-sons-disgusting-for-hunting-in-africa/615768 "2012-03-14T18:58:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-assholes-who-are-calling-the-trump-sons-disgusting-for-hunting-in-africa/615768/21 "2012-03-14T21:16:05Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Well now that’s just silly. > > Obligatory plug for my grandfather’s favorite charity: [Just the first actual result I came across that happened to be more or less in my neck of the woods.](http://www.nature.org/ourinitiatives/regions/northamerica/unitedstates/newyork/placesweprotect/easternnewyork/eastern-new-york-karner-blue-butterflies.xml) > > I’m not remotely against hunting as such, however much I like to make fun of the ‘great white hunter’ wannabes, and I’ll leave discussions of the actual ecological impact of hunting preserves to those better informed, but it is possible to be a complete doof in the opposite direction of “ooh the fuzzy wuzzies”, you know. The Nature Conservancy receives millions in grants from the Wildlife Restoration Program. The Wildlife Restoration Program is run by the US Fish & Wildlife Service. The funding from for the Wildlife Restoration Program is through a federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition. Every year hunters pay $500,000,000 in federal excise taxes that go to directly benefit hunting education and wildlife conservation. This does not include the Duck Stamp which has raised over 670 million for habitat conservation, or the purchase of licenses and tags that directly fund the majority of state wildlife programs. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-assholes-who-are-calling-the-trump-sons-disgusting-for-hunting-in-africa/615768/22 "2012-03-14T21:19:27Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > Seconded. It’s one thing to _need_ to kill another living being, for yourself or others to eat or to protect yourself/your property. But IMO _liking_ to kill anything, taking actual joy in the snuffing of another life, is a sign of serious mental illness. Then I am happy in my madness. I enjoy the hunt. I enjoy the kill. I enjoy the eating. Every part of the process is fun or I wouldn’t bother with it. Modern guns, muzzle loaders, archery tackle…it’s all good. There is satisfaction in simply having hunted. There is more satisfaction in having hunted successfully. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-assholes-who-are-calling-the-trump-sons-disgusting-for-hunting-in-africa/615768/23 "2012-03-14T21:19:32Z")
> [@biddee](#): > > I take pleasure in squashing cockroaches. Does that make me mentally ill? Do you deliberately travel to where cockroaches congregate, for the purpose of squashing them? Do you pay money to people so that you can squash their cockroaches? Do you take photographs of yourself with the cockroaches you’ve squashed, or have them stuffed, so you can show them off to your friends? Are you upset when you can’t squish cockroaches, and do you look forward to next time you will be able to do so? If so, then yeah, that’s kinda sick. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-assholes-who-are-calling-the-trump-sons-disgusting-for-hunting-in-africa/615768/24 "2012-03-14T21:23:57Z")
Err, your point is? The idiot claim was that hunters are the ONLY real conservationists, which is just stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-assholes-who-are-calling-the-trump-sons-disgusting-for-hunting-in-africa/615768/25 "2012-03-14T21:24:21Z")
Don’t knock picking off cockaroaches with a bb gun til you’ve tried it. The little bastards move fast and you don’t have time for more than a shot or two after you turn the lights on. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-assholes-who-are-calling-the-trump-sons-disgusting-for-hunting-in-africa/615768/26 "2012-03-14T21:26:30Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > The Nature Conservancy receives millions in grants from the Wildlife Restoration Program. The Wildlife Restoration Program is run by the US Fish & Wildlife Service. The funding from for the Wildlife Restoration Program is through a federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition. Every year hunters pay $500,000,000 in federal excise taxes that go to directly benefit hunting education and wildlife conservation. > > This does not include the Duck Stamp which has raised over 670 million for habitat conservation, or the purchase of licenses and tags that directly fund the majority of state wildlife programs. . . . none of which proves your point that “[h]unters are the only conservationists that actually back up their ideals with money and results”. And the fact that license fees and taxes paid by hunters are used in part for conservation programs doesn’t mean much. That’s like saying smokers are doing it because of their commitment to supporting public health programs through paying tobacco taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-assholes-who-are-calling-the-trump-sons-disgusting-for-hunting-in-africa/615768/27 "2012-03-14T21:46:31Z")
“It would be against their best interests to let their clients shoot endangered animals.” From your own article: “A study he published last month shows this led to the loss of 72 per cent of adult male lions over five years in an area just outside the Hwange National Park in Zimbabwe.” People prioritise short term gains over long term gains all the time. Otara ---
**Author:** ![biddee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@biddee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/biddee)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-assholes-who-are-calling-the-trump-sons-disgusting-for-hunting-in-africa/615768/28 "2012-03-14T22:44:47Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > “It would be against their best interests to let their clients shoot endangered animals.” > > From your own article: > > “A study he published last month shows this led to the loss of 72 per cent of adult male lions over five years in an area just outside the Hwange National Park in Zimbabwe.” > > People prioritise short term gains over long term gains all the time. > > Otara [After that study was done, they put a 5 year moratorium on lion hunting and the population has bounced back.](http://www.wildcru.org/research/research-detail/?theme=wildlife_as_a_resource&project_id=39). You are right though, not everyone is scrupulous and/or really cares about sustainability of wildlife populations. Fishing is the same. Luckily there are people who care and who can make a difference like the WildCRU. ---
**Author:** ![biddee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@biddee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/biddee)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-assholes-who-are-calling-the-trump-sons-disgusting-for-hunting-in-africa/615768/29 "2012-03-14T22:46:10Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > Do you deliberately travel to where cockroaches congregate, for the purpose of squashing them? > > Do you pay money to people so that you can squash their cockroaches? > > Do you take photographs of yourself with the cockroaches you’ve squashed, or have them stuffed, so you can show them off to your friends? > > Are you upset when you can’t squish cockroaches, and do you look forward to next time you will be able to do so? > If so, then yeah, that’s kinda sick. Hells yes! My ultimate fantasy is to go to Madagascar where they have those giant hissing ones and put on a pair of gumboots and jump up and down on them in glee! ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-assholes-who-are-calling-the-trump-sons-disgusting-for-hunting-in-africa/615768/30 "2012-03-14T23:11:51Z")
As long as they don’t call hiring trackers to tree an animal so they can shoot it “sport”, I will probably have no issue with them. As long as they don’t act like smug assholes who think they actually accomplished something, I will probably have no issue with them. ---
**Author:** ![biddee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@biddee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/biddee)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-assholes-who-are-calling-the-trump-sons-disgusting-for-hunting-in-africa/615768/31 "2012-03-14T23:15:23Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > As long as they don’t call hiring trackers to tree an animal so they can shoot it “sport”, I will probably have no issue with them. As long as they don’t act like smug assholes who think they actually accomplished something, I will probably have no issue with them. Wait, if you went big game fishing and the captain baited the hooks and set the lines and you caught a big marlin, you wouldn’t call it sport? ---
**Author:** ![Mewl\_Dear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Mewl\_Dear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mewl_Dear)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-assholes-who-are-calling-the-trump-sons-disgusting-for-hunting-in-africa/615768/32 "2012-03-14T23:38:11Z")
You are arguing hunting again? If you don’t care to hunt, stay out of the way of my shot. People not raised to hunt or fish will never get it. Teach your children young. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-assholes-who-are-calling-the-trump-sons-disgusting-for-hunting-in-africa/615768/33 "2012-03-15T00:04:53Z")
Another problem with the idea of hunting as conservation is that human hunters degrade the species they hunt. Human hunters don’t kill the weak and sickly; they kill the biggest and healthiest. Over time species subjected to human hunting tend to become smaller, sicker and uglier because those are survival traits against human hunters. > [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > As long as they don’t call hiring trackers to tree an animal so they can shoot it “sport”, I will probably have no issue with them. Not as bad as “hunting” by shooting an animal in a cage, which I’ve heard of. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-assholes-who-are-calling-the-trump-sons-disgusting-for-hunting-in-africa/615768/34 "2012-03-15T00:11:10Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Not as bad as “hunting” by shooting an animal in a cage, which I’ve heard of. Where? ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-assholes-who-are-calling-the-trump-sons-disgusting-for-hunting-in-africa/615768/35 "2012-03-15T00:19:01Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Can we still make fun of them for wanting to prove their manhood by getting ferried around to shoot leopards from the back of a truck while three or four assistants stand at the ready with trank guns? 😃 You forgot the well armed private army of security too, they are so manly and masculine they need protection:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-assholes-who-are-calling-the-trump-sons-disgusting-for-hunting-in-africa/615768/36 "2012-03-15T00:22:26Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Where? On the news, years ago. One of those “things rich jerks do” stories. Googling, I see stories [as old as 1978](http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1298&dat=19780703&id=suwQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=E4wDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4405,285713) about the practice. > [@](#): > > "Most people found it a little inconvenient to chase these things all over the island, Pritchard said. “People actually preferred to shoot them before they were released.” It’s really just the logical endpoint of [canned hunts](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canned_hunt). ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-assholes-who-are-calling-the-trump-sons-disgusting-for-hunting-in-africa/615768/37 "2012-03-15T00:24:35Z")
Donald Trump has _KIDS_? Huh. And here I always thought Ivana, Marla, and Melania were just a series of ever-younger trophy beards. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-assholes-who-are-calling-the-trump-sons-disgusting-for-hunting-in-africa/615768/38 "2012-03-15T00:31:19Z")
> [@biddee](#): > > Americans will pay over $50 000US for an elephant. No animals are shot that are endangered. I won’t hazard an opinion as to whether individuals should or should not hunt. The activity’s not for me, but I grudgingly must admit it’s perfectly natural to derive recreational enjoyment from it. If great white hunters bring in the big bucks then so be it. But for the record: I understand that African Elephants, although not technically classified as _endangered_ since 2004, [are still considered to be vulnerable](http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/12392/0) — i.e, only the next step up — though populations have done better recently in Zimbabwe than elsewhere. Leopards, which the Trumps were photographed successfully having hunted, are [near threatened](http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/15954/0) with significant range loss in sub-Saharan Africa. Even if technically true, then (that’s the best kind of true!), I think it’s misleading to say that “no animals are shot that are endangered”. ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-assholes-who-are-calling-the-trump-sons-disgusting-for-hunting-in-africa/615768/39 "2012-03-15T01:20:12Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Where? [Canned hunting,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canned_hunt) (on preview, Der Trihs beat me to it) cited in this Wiki article in Texas, Pennsylvania, and South Africa. Not necessarily shot inside the cages, but (I swear I’ve seen pics that now I can’t find) often released from a cage into an enclosed/fenced area for the trophy non-hunter to shoot them as many times as they have to in order to get a kill. The pic I can’t find was a guy with a dead panther, and you could see the cage in the background. (Too Long, No Need to Read, just so you know where I’m coming from…) I’ve done a lot of research, was a vegetarian for a couple years, and have become a meat-eater again, but only from small local farms. I don’t eat any factory farmed animal products, only farms I can actually visit and tour. I went from eating plenty of cheese, eggs, and dairy to not much, because I’ll only eat those things I can see the farm they came from, talk to the farmer at the farmer’s market. I eat vegan if I have to eat away from home. Maybe that’s extreme, but that’s what I’m comfortable with. Would I eat hunted meat? Absolutely. And I have. I’ve got two hunters in my family, to whose practice I objected until my eyes were opened to factory farming. So much worse than hunting. Leagues different. If I can be fairly sure the animal was happy-go-lucky and pretty much engaging in all their natural behaviors up to the day they died (for food), I’m fine with it, whether that’s small farmed, or hunted. Hunted well, by the way, and by that I mean with every intention of making one kill shot and not just shooting at it until it’s dead. The intention must be there, even if it’s not always possible. Trophy hunting, just for the kill and to mount something on the wall, is weird to me. I have trouble differentiating that from someone who kills a puppy or cat just to see what happens. Subsistence hunting I’m fine with. If the animal ends up in someone’s freezer, and useable parts used, and the rest composted or used for feed, it’s fine. So with that, I have trouble with people like the Trumps hunting in Africa. I need to do more research. If the animals are really being consumed with no waste, that’s good, but my issue is with inexperienced hunters just firing away at an animal and causing undue suffering because they’re a lousy shot. The hunters I know (yeah, just the two) are careful about making sure they have a clean shot before taking it, and DO NOT take pleasure in causing more suffering than they have to. People all up in arms about what the OP mentions, he’s right to scold them if they still partake in factory farming, not just those who still eat meat, but vegetarians who still partake in factory farmed animal products. They’re just as bad. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-assholes-who-are-calling-the-trump-sons-disgusting-for-hunting-in-africa/615768/40 "2012-03-15T01:38:47Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Dammit! If people spend their time being outraged about this, then they aren’t being outraged about Kony and he’ll _never_ be caught at this rate! You know, as long as the Trumps are on the continent anyway… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-assholes-who-are-calling-the-trump-sons-disgusting-for-hunting-in-africa/615768.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-assholes-who-are-calling-the-trump-sons-disgusting-for-hunting-in-africa/615768.md?page=3)