# I Pit The CA Supreme Court for Destroying the Good Samaritan Law **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 19, 2008, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961 "2008-12-19T19:23:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/61 "2008-12-19T22:14:50Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Good Samaritan laws do not impose a duty upon you - they just protect you if DO choose to help. > > (I also do some volunteer firefighting as well) Some of them try. Other countries have good samaritan laws you know? I see nothing wrong with the current system. What if some idiot comes across your unconscious body and decides that you probably have a brain hemorrhage and decides to try to let the pressure out by using his dirty box cutter to perform an emergency post temporal lobechtomy cutting out the portion of your brain he thought was swelling in order to prevent damage to the rest of your brain? Still shouldn’t be able to sue? (Well your family shouldn’t be able to sue since you are now unnecessarily in a permanent vegetative state when all you needed was a cool towel since you were only suffering from heat exhaustion but he was just trying to help… ---
**Author:** ![runcible\_spoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc29f/32.png) [@runcible\_spoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runcible_spoon)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/62 "2008-12-19T22:18:41Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Some of them try. Other countries have good samaritan laws you know? > > I see nothing wrong with the current system. What if some idiot comes across your unconscious body and decides that you probably have a brain hemorrhage and decides to try to let the pressure out by using his dirty box cutter to perform an emergency post temporal lobechtomy cutting out the portion of your brain he thought was swelling in order to prevent damage to the rest of your brain? Still shouldn’t be able to sue? (Well your family shouldn’t be able to sue since you are now unnecessarily in a permanent vegetative state when all you needed was a cool towel since you were only suffering from heat exhaustion but he was just trying to help… Well, that’d be medical, wouldn’t it? 😛 Seriously, I don’t actually know how the current laws work with regards to ‘reasonable actions’, I’m more concerned that apparently even reasonable actions won’t save me if I’m giving non-medical assistance. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/63 "2008-12-19T22:24:09Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Some of them try. Other countries have good samaritan laws you know? > > I see nothing wrong with the current system. What if some idiot comes across your unconscious body and decides that you probably have a brain hemorrhage and decides to try to let the pressure out by using his dirty box cutter to perform an emergency post temporal lobechtomy cutting out the portion of your brain he thought was swelling in order to prevent damage to the rest of your brain? Still shouldn’t be able to sue? (Well your family shouldn’t be able to sue since you are now unnecessarily in a permanent vegetative state when all you needed was a cool towel since you were only suffering from heat exhaustion but he was just trying to help… Oh for pete’s sake…when do the bigfeet and aliens arrive in this scenario to REALLY drive your point home? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/64 "2008-12-19T22:28:46Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Oh for pete’s sake…when do the bigfeet and aliens arrive in this scenario to REALLY drive your point home? :rolleyes: Hey, if bigfoot or an alien did it I’d sue them too… The point is why should people who act \*\*unreasonably \*\* be protected just because they are trying to help. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/65 "2008-12-19T22:31:47Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Sure we may need a trial to determine if people acted reasonably but what is the alternative? I don’t know about you, but given that newspapers are written for a sixth grader’s reading level so that the general public can understand them, I don’t think I want a “jury of my peers” deciding what whether or not I was an unreasonable idiot or not if I don’t absolutely have to. When I took CPR training the very first thing they did was try to undo two scary myths: 1. That you’ll be sued if you touch a victim 2. That you can be charge/sued for not helping if you are certified, but don’t act With all the effort that went into telling people that yes, it is okay for you to try and save someone’s life, this ruling is disheartening. People will die because bystanders will be afraid to help. Even with the Good Samaritan Act, the risk of law suit is still a huge factor in discouraging help when it is needed. > [@](#): > > ``` > The witnesses before us today will describe some of the specific failings of our civil justice system because they, their organizations, or those they serve have been the direct victims of it. But in a larger sense, all Americans have already been victimized by the lawsuit culture. The economic consequences of the lawsuit culture are severe, but pale in comparison to the overall societal cost. The lawsuit culture has already fundamentally altered the behavior of average Americans without their ever making a conscious choice in the matter. It pervades our thinking and has changed who we are and what we do, and not for the better. > > ``` > > In the lawsuit culture, teachers are afraid to teach or discipline students; doctors are afraid to practice medicine; recreation departments are so afraid of liability that they remove standard playground equipment, happily enjoyed by millions of children for decades. And as we will hear today, in the lawsuit culture volunteer organizations and those who give time and resources to them are increasingly fearful of legal exposure that might arise from their efforts to help others. Taken from the 2004 Hearing before the Committee of the Judiciary House of Representative considering the Good Samaritan Volunteer Firefighter Assistance Act of 2003, and Nonprofit Athletic Organization Protection Act of 2003. These acts were proposed because personal injury suits are so out of control that the existence of volunteer fire departments and sports associations have been imperiled. Now the average person is going to be at risk for helping. Even if they are trained, qualified, know what to do, and do the right thing, they will still probably be sued. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/66 "2008-12-19T22:34:21Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > The point is why should people who act \*\*unreasonably \*\* be protected just because they are trying to help. That’s **your** point. Everyone else’s point is that, like it or not, the knowledge that you may have to pay a lawyer to defend your actions as reasonable is possibly going to cut down on the number of people willing to be Good Samaritans. The crux of the matter is that we have to decide, as a society, where the risk/benefit ratio is minimized. The CSC has weighed in, now it’ll be up to the Legislature to let their decision stand or to rewrite the law. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/67 "2008-12-19T22:37:26Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > While we’re making wild-ass analogies here, let’s say the guy throwing the anchor has an IQ of 68. Now what? Where is Hitler in this scenario, and is he covered in glue ? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/68 "2008-12-19T22:42:24Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > While we’re making wild-ass analogies here, let’s say the guy throwing the anchor has an IQ of 68. Now what? Don’t fight the hypothetical! ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/69 "2008-12-19T22:42:42Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > That’s **your** point. Everyone else’s point is that, like it or not, the knowledge that you may have to pay a lawyer to defend your actions as reasonable is possibly going to cut down on the number of people willing to be Good Samaritans. I don’t think that is everyone else’s point. It may be yours and a few others but certainly not everyone’s. Arnold W. and Dinsdale come to mind… > [@](#): > > The crux of the matter is that we have to decide, as a society, where the risk/benefit ratio is minimized. The CSC has weighed in, now it’ll be up to the Legislature to let their decision stand or to rewrite the law. Actually we decided that hundreds of years ago that’s why the common law requires rescuers to act reasonably… ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/70 "2008-12-19T22:50:04Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > While I feel for the woman who is now a paraplegic POSSIBLY due to being moved from the vehicle, making it possible to sue someone for TRYING to help is NOT what the legislature intended. It seems the SC of CA has a different opinion. They do not make the law. They interpret the law as written. If their interpretation is contrary to what the law really intended then my guess is the law was shoddily written and needs some major overhaul. Where do you get that the law as written would have wanted a different outcome in this case? Inquiring minds want to know It seems to me that, like in most cases when judicial resolutions are criticised, it is really the law which should be criticized. The justices are just the messengers, no need to shoot them. Of course, it might be too much to ask that people actually know and understand the workings of the government and how the laws are made by the legislative and not by the judges. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/71 "2008-12-19T22:50:46Z")
Re: CPR and rib fractures. [http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0300957204002527](http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0300957204002527) > [@](#): > > Reports on conventional CPR in adults suggest an incidence of rib fractures ranging from 13 to 97%, and of sternal fractures from 1 to 43%. > > Rib or sternal fractures are unlikely to increase mortality, as they rarely cause severe internal organ damage. Proper CPR breaks ribs a lot. Some experts feel that if properly done, it will cause fractures in 100% of adults. But many fractures are not big enough to be seen by standard post-mortem studies. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/72 "2008-12-19T22:57:26Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Re: CPR and rib fractures. [http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0300957204002527](http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0300957204002527) > > Proper CPR breaks ribs a lot. Some experts feel that if properly done, it will cause fractures in 100% of adults. But many fractures are not big enough to be seen by standard post-mortem studies. Well, I stand corrected on that. QTM is the expert. I never to my knowledge fractured anyones ribs when administering CPR. But QTM is the MD around here if he says it’s common I won’t argue. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/73 "2008-12-19T22:59:47Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > Yes, I would rather someone risk busting my ribs if he couldn’t find a pulse, even if he didn’t know how to find one properly. Well, if someone doesn’t know how to find a pulse, I don’t want him giving me medical attention. I’ll take my chances waiting for the paramedics. > [@Algher](#): > > How long would you like me to wait to check? Your brain is right now slowly dying while I perform another check to be sure so that you don’t sue me. The amount of time it takes a trained professional to tell if I need CPR or not. ETA: I’m not saying that I never want people to help me ever. But from the opposite side of the coin, I disagree that no one should ever be held liable when attempting to give me medical attention. If the person acts in ignorance and great disregard for my safety, due to a mistaken belief in their medical knowlege or ability to handle emergencies, and causes me grievous harm, then they should be held liable. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/74 "2008-12-19T23:12:10Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Hey, if bigfoot or an alien did it I’d sue them too… > > The point is why should people who act \*\*unreasonably \*\* be protected just because they are trying to help. You know what? I HOPE you suffer one of your unlikely scenarios that makes your point, ie being harmed by an incompetent “helper” and that you “get” to sue their behinds. Hey, you might be permanently maimed or finacially devestated, but “proving” your point should be well worth it! Or, better yet, that you are in dire straights and NO ONE does help you because they are worried about lawsuits from the likes of you. Or even better still, you help someone and they sue you penniless because their lawyers definition of reasonable differs from yours. Its real easy to talk the talk. I really hope you get to walk the walk one day. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/75 "2008-12-19T23:16:26Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > Well, if someone doesn’t know how to find a pulse, I don’t want him giving me medical attention. I’ll take my chances waiting for the paramedics. > > . How long can you hold your breath so to speak? Cause we all know the paramedics will be there in only a minute or two :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/76 "2008-12-19T23:27:58Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > The amount of time it takes a trained professional to tell if I need CPR or not. Which, in most situations, means more time that it will take for you to die if you actually needed CPR. I strongly suspect that anybody who knows how to do CPR will also know how to find a pulse. I allow anybody to happily crack my ribs… ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/77 "2008-12-19T23:28:48Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I HOPE you suffer one of your unlikely scenarios that makes your point, ie being harmed by an incompetent “helper” and that you “get” to sue their behinds. Hey, you might be permanently maimed or finacially devestated, but “proving” your point should be well worth it! I know this is the Pit, but come on! I could say this: I hope once you’re sitting in a car with a minor back pain after an accident and someone forcibly drags you through the window and drops you on the pavement, in the process breaking your spine and paralyzing you. Then you’ll get to thank the person for helping and show us what a noble person you are. > [@billfish678](#): > > How long can you hold your breath so to speak? If you know enough to tell for sure I can no longer breathe on my own, then go ahead and crack a rib. If you’re going to start pounding on me because I just fainted for a minute, just make sure you avoid the testicles and stay in the chest area. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/78 "2008-12-19T23:31:31Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Which, in most situations, means more time that it will take for you to die if you actually needed CPR. I’m not sure what this means. Are you saying that the best course of action is for me not to check anything, but immediately start the CPR if I see someone lying motionless on the ground? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/79 "2008-12-19T23:38:34Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > You know what? > > I HOPE you suffer one of your unlikely scenarios that makes your point, ie being harmed by an incompetent “helper” and that you “get” to sue their behinds. Hey, you might be permanently maimed or finacially devestated, but “proving” your point should be well worth it! > Or, better yet, that you are in dire straights and NO ONE does help you because they are worried about lawsuits from the likes of you. > > Or even better still, you help someone and they sue you penniless because their lawyers definition of reasonable differs from yours. > > Its real easy to talk the talk. I really hope you get to walk the walk one day. Wow, I didn’t insult you. I didn’t call you names. I wasn’t mean to you. I just had a different opinion. And you feel that way. Dude you’ve got more problems than mere stupidity… ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/80 "2008-12-19T23:46:03Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > Well, if someone doesn’t know how to find a pulse, I don’t want him giving me medical attention. I’ll take my chances waiting for the paramedics. > > The amount of time it takes a trained professional to tell if I need CPR or not. > > ETA: I’m not saying that I never want people to help me ever. But from the opposite side of the coin, I disagree that no one should ever be held liable when attempting to give me medical attention. If the person acts in ignorance and great disregard for my safety, due to a mistaken belief in their medical knowlege or ability to handle emergencies, and causes me grievous harm, then they should be held liable. Sorry, there won’t be a trained professional along for another 15 minutes. Now, I took my CPR course a few months ago. My pulse is raging. I am hoping I remember everything. Ah, fuck it, he has one of the “I am going to sue your ass” bracelets. Not worth my family’s livelihood. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961.md?page=5)