# I Pit The CA Supreme Court for Destroying the Good Samaritan Law **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 19, 2008, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961 "2008-12-19T19:23:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![ajb867](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@ajb867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ajb867)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/121 "2008-12-20T22:36:12Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > Heh, medics, like you do compressions, thats what EMT’s are for. 😉 > > Rib/sternum fractures should not be a goal but if it happens it happens. I have done compressions more times than I can count and have broken ribs on dozens of occasions. Every patient is different. > > My EMT teacher put it perfectly IMHO. > > You might break a rib or two, you might break their sternum, and they will hurt like hell later. At least they will be alive to feel it. I’ll do CPR if I have too, we are all on the same team in this field 🙂 I myself have fractured ribs and have heard the ribs being broken. Typically in the elderly ribs are always going to snap as the rib cage is just no longer as flexible. My point was not to take it to heart that you need to be inflicting trauma to be doing good CPR. You can break all the ribs in the world but if you are not at least providing a carotid pulse, well then all you are doing is just breaking the ribs. Just this week I had a cardiac arrest where the EMT placed his hands directly over the left side of the guys chest and not on the sternum and away he went. Would you want this to happen to you in the event of your untimely demise? Picture how those ribs would snap down in to your chest cavity. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/122 "2008-12-20T22:52:40Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Why on earth do you think there should be a duty to rescue a stranger. I understand your point but this is a value judgment and other countries and cultures see it differently. American society is more individualistic than most other societies. Just to make sure I checked and confirmed that the Spanish Penal Code does indeed punish not rendering aid when it can be done without danger [art. 195](http://www.ruidos.org/Normas/Codigo_Penal.htm). Punishment is fine if the guilty person was totally unrelated to the situation but can be jail time if the person caused the accident and then did not render aid. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/123 "2008-12-20T23:05:38Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > I understand your point but this is a value judgment and other countries and cultures see it differently. American society is more individualistic than most other societies. > > Just to make sure I checked and confirmed that the Spanish Penal Code does indeed punish not rendering aid when it can be done without danger [art. 195](http://www.ruidos.org/Normas/Codigo_Penal.htm). Punishment is fine if the guilty person was totally unrelated to the situation but can be jail time if the person caused the accident and then did not render aid. That’s why I pointed that out like fifty posts back. This is an American case the ruling was by an American court we are talking about American laws. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/124 "2008-12-20T23:24:49Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Panicked people can still use their best judgment to help someone. And yes, I do think that it should absolve laymen for injuries they cause. The rescuer had been drinking too. Does that figure into the reasonableness of her actions? ---
**Author:** ![dre2xl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@dre2xl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dre2xl)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/125 "2008-12-20T23:32:32Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Some of them try. Other countries have good samaritan laws you know? > > I see nothing wrong with the current system. What if some idiot comes across your unconscious body and decides that you probably have a brain hemorrhage and decides to try to let the pressure out by using his dirty box cutter to perform an emergency post temporal lobechtomy cutting out the portion of your brain he thought was swelling in order to prevent damage to the rest of your brain? Still shouldn’t be able to sue? (Well your family shouldn’t be able to sue since you are now unnecessarily in a permanent vegetative state when all you needed was a cool towel since you were only suffering from heat exhaustion but he was just trying to help… And how does suing ameliorate having your brain snipped off? Furthermore, if you claim that these laws are a deterrent, what is the evidence of that? If anything, it is probably the smarter people who will now be less likely to help, thus increasing the idiot ratio of rescuers. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/126 "2008-12-20T23:35:33Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > That’s why I pointed that out like fifty posts back. This is an American case the ruling was by an American court we are talking about American laws. My point was that not all Americans think exactly alike (I’m pretty sure of that) and I was adding some non-American perspective. I am deeply sorry if that offended you and I regret any distress it may have caused you. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/127 "2008-12-21T00:09:52Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > I am deeply sorry if that offended you and I regret any distress it may have caused you. Where did you get that I may be offended? I merely pointed out that I had previously made the point you were making. Or were you really saying something else? The fact is that in English common law and the American Tort system which is derived from it, rescuers have long been required to act in a reasonable manner and can be liable if they act unreasonably. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/128 "2008-12-21T00:16:12Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > I really don’t think you have enough information to have reasonably come to that conclusion. Your car accident scenario is an apt one. No pulse…you pretty much can’t make it worse. Pulse? Breathing? Leave them right there and make sure help is enroute. I’m not sure what current percentages run for how many of the population have any CPR/First Aid training but if you dont know what to do, don’t do something just to do something. In my fire academy days one of the things we were always taught to put into the checklist when attempting to formulate an attack plan for an incident was “what if we do nothing” or call someone who understands this stuff better. As horrible as that may sound, sometimes its a heck of alot smarter than the alternative. Famous moments in our local FD’s history involved things like appying water to water reactive chemicals (INSERT HUGE BOOM HERE!) or fires involving highly toxic substances (resulting in several feet of dirt being removed from the property). They knew what they were dealing with, but didn’t understand the ramifications of trying the old “solution by dilution” that firefighters tend to default to. Both of those incidents ended up costing the city big time, and these were the pros. If they waited 15 min for the manager to arrive, never would have happened. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/129 "2008-12-21T00:26:39Z")
I had no idea CPR was so forceful. It sounds like ribs are snapping like the thanksgiving wishbone. I’ve done horrible stuff to my ribs and haven’t broke them. Once many years ago I was running full throttle (15 mph) playing tag in the dark and trip over a tire. The only thing that slowed me down was a car bumper and my ribcage. The pain wow. Not even my cousin throwing a crutch handle and nailing my crotch hurt that bad. Yet no ribs broke. Ya’ll either have some brittle ribs or I just learned how traumatic CPR is on the body. That said if I’m unresponsive and you think CPR could save my life then go to town like you’re playing the xylophone with a sledge hammer. Better broken ribs then dead ones. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/130 "2008-12-21T01:37:07Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Why on earth do you think there should be a duty to rescue a stranger. What if you are not physically fit enough to help or not mentally competent or if by helping you endanger your own family? Should everyone be subjected to a lawsuit for not helping a situation they had nothing to do with creating? Helping out is laudable and as I explained up thread I have frequently done it, but now you want to impose a duty. That means subjecting everyone who does not help to a lawsuit. I don’t think you guys think this stuff through… I think you misunderstand me. I don’t believe there should be an absolute duty to rescue someone from a likely fatal situation. But I also don’t think you should hold someone legally liable if they unintentionally injure you while extricating you from a likely fatal situation. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/131 "2008-12-21T02:14:20Z")
> [@Mince](#): > > I think you misunderstand me. I don’t believe there should be an absolute duty to rescue someone from a likely fatal situation. But I also don’t think you should hold someone legally liable if they unintentionally injure you while extricating you from a likely fatal situation. What about if they unintentionally injure you while misguidedly extricating you from a non-lethal situation? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/132 "2008-12-21T02:33:16Z")
> [@Mince](#): > > I think you misunderstand me. I don’t believe there should be an absolute duty to rescue someone from a likely fatal situation. But I also don’t think you should hold someone legally liable if they unintentionally injure you while extricating you from a likely fatal situation. But what if it turns out that it clearly was not a fatal situation and the person acted in an unreasonable under the circumstances manner and caused you to suffer serious injuries that you would not otherwise have suffered? You were only facing at most a broken leg but due to the unreasonable action of an idiot who overreacted to the situation you are left a cripple for life. You would just say oh well, you were just trying to help? NB: I am not necessarily talking about the car crash mentioned in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/133 "2008-12-21T04:04:17Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > The rescuer had been drinking too. > Does that figure into the reasonableness of her actions? Was she? How much had she been drinking? Did she fail a breath test? Is there enough information to determine that she wasn’t in a position to reason? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/134 "2008-12-21T04:11:13Z")
I don’t know but isn’t the paralysed girl entitled to an answerto those questions? ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/135 "2008-12-21T04:24:54Z")
If there was an answer, wouldn’t it be in the police report? You don’t have to sue someone to get that information. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/136 "2008-12-21T04:36:22Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > If there was an answer, wouldn’t it be in the police report? You don’t have to sue someone to get that information. Say the police report says she was three times the legal limit and no rational person could have thought there was any need to move her and that all the witnesses said they warned her not to move her and she said fuck you I’m gonna be a hero and rescue this bitch? Then could she sue? ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/137 "2008-12-21T04:41:05Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Say the police report says she was three times the legal limit and no rational person could have thought there was any need to move her and that all the witnesses said they warned her not to move her and she said fuck you I’m gonna be a hero and rescue this bitch? Then could she sue? Say she had just checked out of a 72-hour psych hold just the weekend before and she was really having an affair with her friend’s boyfriend and everyone at work said that she secretly hated that bitch because she was a much better make-up artist. Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/138 "2008-12-21T04:44:09Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Say she had just checked out of a 72-hour psych hold just the weekend before and she was really having an affair with her friend’s boyfriend and everyone at work said that she secretly hated that bitch because she was a much better make-up artist. > > Seriously? Seriously. Answer the fucking question. You don’t know that it is not the case. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/139 "2008-12-21T05:00:36Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Seriously. Answer the fucking question. You don’t know that it is not the case. I’m going to go out on a limb here but I would assume that if the police responding to the scene had run across a very drunk person (3x the legal limit is pretty sloshed) at the scene of – and tangentially involved in – an auto accident, they probably would have arrested her, in which case the arrest record would likely have been noted in the articles about the case. Further, if she had been that highly intoxicated and injured someone while 3x the legal limit, I’m pretty sure there would be related criminal charges filed as well. That doesn’t seem to be the case. ---
**Author:** ![ajb867](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@ajb867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ajb867)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961/140 "2008-12-21T05:04:22Z")
Askeptic have you ever helped someone? Have you ever wanted to help? Pretend you are the rescuer of the child in my car accident scenario. How would you feel about worsening the injury but saving the kids life? Would you want to be sued? Would you have ever tried to help knowing you can be sued? The prosecution has a really huge burden of proving that this women’s Neck was not already “Broken enough”. I mean think of the Force involved in a 45 mph car accident vs a 130lb woman yanking on your arm. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-ca-supreme-court-for-destroying-the-good-samaritan-law/477961.md?page=8)