Your till analogy is either obvious theft or doesn’t make sense. I can’t tell which.
I think the analogy is sound, it just needs a few more variables.
…I do appreciate having a place to work this out…
Imagine a food market where the till is used.
One can buy groceries (non-taxable).
One can buy ready-to-eat food (taxable).
One can buy ready-to-eat food and eat it at provided tables (dine-in surcharge).
One can have waitstaff bring ready-to-eat foods (dine-in plus possible tip).
One can negotiate with waitstaff for the preparation of groceries or ready-to-eat foods (negotiable beyond specifications above).
You can go to a register to checkout or waitstaff will ring up your total on the till and bring the receipt to your table even if you only have groceries.
The only odd detail I can add is that tips theoretically go down when food prices go up because of the “keep-the-change” effect.
Eighty cent cup of coffee = twenty cent tip
Seventy five cent of coffee = twenty five cent tip
So,…
Rather than add another scenario, imagine the number of different ways that the cashier might make adjustments to someone’s bill after the fact.
…if you were charged a dine-in fee when you bought ready-to-eat food, would you be upset? ($.90)
…if you (as the waitstaff) negotiated a price for service and then received no tip would you make adjustments to increase your [WAGE]… your [TIP]?
Basically, I’d be much less sure this was theft if it was in-house adjustment. Once you involve a customer? Theft.
I’d be just as sure. I’m still a bit confused, I guess. ANY scenario where someone ends up with money in his pocket he was not entitled to means someone else got shafted, whether it’s the customer (sounds like it in this case) or the firm he works for.
SiXSwordS, the complexities you describe sound to me like aspects that simply obscure but don’t really change the nature of the act, which is that somebody stole something. When you say, “I’m not sure that everyone would agree it is theft,” do you mean it in the sense that it certainly is, but it might not be blindingly obvious? Or do you mean something else? Sounds to me like somebody stole something, period.
Half of me thinks that you are half lying but the other half of me half thinks you are half lying too.
I feel like a fucking weasel for calling someone out on a relatively minor cheat when I think they thought they would just get away with it.
But it’s still theft, right? I’m not trying to be pedantic or belabor it, just trying to understand the analogies you offered and what they were clarifying, and why you thought some people wouldn’t think this was theft at all. I may be trying to understand a point you’re not making at all.
…and you would feel the same if it were you who had done it?
That I stole something? Yes.
…just so I’m clear, you mean that if you had stolen, you would know that you stolen
I wont speak for Stratocaster, but my answer for this question is a resounding yes. If you took money from a till, if you padded an expense report, then you absolutely knew that you benefited unfairly from it.
If, on the other hand, a customer tells you to keep the change, they are telling you to keep the change - that’s completely separate from the till, and there is no dishonesty involved.
What unstrung said. I may still be missing something, but if I manipulated the system–violated the honor system–in a manner that put money in my pocket that I would otherwise not have received, then, yes, I would know I stole something.
I think we might be talking past each other though. I do get your point about the amounts being “trivial.” Some people might think, sure it’s stealing, but it doesn’t amount to much–why make a big deal out of it? Is that what you mean? FTR, I think you’re doing the right thing by not ignoring this.
$ 2 a day over the course of a year is a few hundred dollars. That’s not a small thing.
If I take a penny from the take-a-penny jar that could equal $864.00 a day…
But it’s just like the honor system you describe. Rounding up a bit to save everyone some time calculating the exact amount? Fine, jus like taking a penny so you don’t end up with a pocketful of change. It’s what it’s there for.
The behavior you described is akin to simply emptying the take-a-penny dish into your pocket every time you walk by. No one, including that guy, thinks it’s ok.
It’s interesting that you should say that as I made the same comparison myself when I was kvetching about this to people at work.
In fact, with this same person (pertaining to a different situation) I compared the behavior to taking the change from the penny dish without even buying anything.
For better or worse, I think my comment was filed away and nothing is going to be said or done.
I chalk it up to a sort of emotional materiality. It’s not worth the confrontation to make it an issue.
The amount matters when it is very large; the amount does not matter when it is small.
Stealing is stealing. Stealing a lot is very bad, but stealing a little is still bad.
When the cost of recovering will be more than the amount stolen, companies ‘absorb’ the cost; that is, they past it on to the consumer. I don’t like that.
When someone scams a customer, the customer passes on the cost to the consumer. Sometimes we just suck it up in order to avoid total market melt-down, but I still don’t like it.
Stealing is sleazy and sleazy people have shaky ethics and shaky ethics will eventually get the whole company in trouble, throwing 25% of the work force out of a job, while the shakily ethiced sleaze get re-hired as a consultant.
Or it keeps the profit margin in the sandwich shop so low that no one ever gets more than minimum wage.
Or it slowly drives away customers who won’t make a fuss over $5 but will just take their business elsewhere.
Apart from how trivial the amount might be, this guy put you in an uncomfortable spot. If you didn’t report it, what would’ve happened if someone else noticed it down the line and wondered why you didn’t catch it? Whether they think you’re complicit or just inattentive, it still reflects badly on you.
He did these things that were there for you to notice. He made you need to decide between looking the other way, which puts your own ass on the line, and reporting it, which makes you feel like crap.
Try to remember that he screwed you first.
The reason you may ignore a small discrepancy in accounting isn’t that the number itself is small, it’s because small random errors cancel each other out eventually. You can figure that if this week’s number is $5 too big, next week’s may very well be $5 too small. If one customer gets slightly overcharged this week, an entirely different customer gets over or under charged next week. Just like the penny jar, today I take one, tomorrow I put one in.
This little scheme is totally different, it’s always an error one way, and always takes money from customers and puts money in one person’s pocket, for work that wasn’t done.
Another interesting point. Most people don’t complain. Part of the reason it can be difficult to deal with complaints is because people build up a head of steam before they call.
Part of my problem is that I don’t think others would have noticed, or cared. When I mentioned it, it was kind of poo-pooed. Even after I argued my point, the only concession was to mention it to the offender.
I should make this clear again that the chore I was doing is mundane. Doing it well would mean putting too much energy into it.
In this case, noticing a problem is tantamount to causing a problem.
Thanks for that. It really helps bring it into focus.