# I pit the cops who openly applauded police abuse today **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 28, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-cops-who-openly-applauded-police-abuse-today/792340 "2017-07-28T19:00:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-cops-who-openly-applauded-police-abuse-today/792340/501 "2017-08-04T22:30:22Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > It doesn’t matter what door they break down. Don’t shoot cops who are doing their job. > > Do you genuinely not understand that the police are allowed to use force when doing their job, and so you are not allowed to defend yourself against them _when they are doing their job_? They are risking their lives to protect you, and you are saying it should be fine to shoot them. It’s ridiculous. Cops who are fuck ups should be killed before they kill an innocent person. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-cops-who-openly-applauded-police-abuse-today/792340/502 "2017-08-04T22:30:55Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > [Update](http://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/update-federal-charges-brought-against-officer-baby-bou-bou-case/wGWw3iatVh3cPYOHlTD1HK/) > > **Federal** charges brought against one officer, county settled with the family for almost a million dollars. > [Another update](http://rollingout.com/2016/02/27/846658/) > > A 3.6 million dollar award to the family, Bou Bou doing well. > No excuse for the original SNAFU or the bullshittery that followed. Thanks for the update, and yes there is NO excuse for this kind of shit. Interesting that ONCE AGAIN it took FEDERAL action to get results. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-cops-who-openly-applauded-police-abuse-today/792340/503 "2017-08-04T22:39:07Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > If you think the chance is that tiny - or don’t consider it at all - then feel free to shoot. But if you shoot a uniformed cop doing their job - who is not an unknown intruder imminently threatening you, they are an easily identifiable person doing a job - then be prepared to take the consequences. If it’s so unlikely as you make out, it’s not something to worry about. > > I have to say, I’m pretty fucking sceptical to say the least that a bunch of cops could drive up to someone’s house, break the door in, search the house, reach the bedroom and become a potential imminent threat without the resident being able to identify them, but being able to get to their gun. The door would have to be smashed in extremely quietly… :dubious: Your ignorance is shocking. A police uniform is not a magical costume bestowed by all-knowing wizards. Sometimes, however, criminals _do_ don these uniforms in the commission of their [crimes](http://listverse.com/2013/08/30/10-disturbing-cases-of-police-impersonation/), taking advantage of the naive and the sycophantic. Never heard of the [“Hillside Stranglers”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillside_Strangler)? Or [Nathaniel Bar-Jonah](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathaniel_Bar-Jonah)? I will always use my wits to the best of my ability in assessing and avoiding or neutralizing threats to my person. I’m guessing it’s a lot easier to leave the thinking to someone else… ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-cops-who-openly-applauded-police-abuse-today/792340/504 "2017-08-04T23:03:55Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > Cops who are fuck ups should be killed before they kill an innocent person. Fuck it, lets just kill everybody on the planet before they kill an innocent person, that’ll solve the problem! ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-cops-who-openly-applauded-police-abuse-today/792340/505 "2017-08-04T23:07:35Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Thanks for the update, and yes there is NO excuse for this kind of shit. Interesting that ONCE AGAIN it took FEDERAL action to get results. Just to make it clear to anyone who didn’t read the article (not you, it looks like you did) it’s the cop that lied to get the warrant issued that has been charged, not those who took part in the raid itself. That seems correct to me. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-cops-who-openly-applauded-police-abuse-today/792340/506 "2017-08-04T23:09:12Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > As I’m sure you well know, that’s not how courts work, and I doubt even you think they should. You’ll get compensation for those things if it’s warranted. > > Do you think you’d get the same from a drug dealer who shot you by mistake? I doubt it, and I think the police are risking their lives to make it far less likely you will be shot by one. But that’s not good enough for you, you want the right to shoot at the police who have reason to believe that you are that drug dealer, without fear of any response. That is, as so often for you, fucking ridiculous. If a drug dealer shoots me by mistake, my family would have the hope of seeing that murderer put away. If a cop shoots me by mistake, too bad, cops can do that. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-cops-who-openly-applauded-police-abuse-today/792340/507 "2017-08-04T23:11:53Z")
To live safely in **Steophan** ’s world, one must be a perfect robot who doesn’t panic AT ALL when awoken from sleep by the sounds of someone breaking into one’s house, loudly. See, that’s my objection to that viewpoint. Cops rule! Citizens drool (for the rest of their lives as mindless vegetables after being shot in the head by police who home-invade the wrong house). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-cops-who-openly-applauded-police-abuse-today/792340/508 "2017-08-04T23:16:23Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’m not suggesting that at all, I’m saying that you shouldn’t shoot cops who are doing their jobs. That says nothing about what you can do to other people. > > It’s just not reasonable to say that people can’t tell the difference between uniformed cops and other people. In the dark of course it’s reasonable. It’s actually happened. And uniforms don’t magically make people cops – criminals can wear uniforms. Criminals can pretend to be cops. The best way to prevent this is to make absolutely sure that cops never break down the wrong doors. Considering how often it happens, the standard is obviously way too low, as are the consequences. The consequences for breaking down the wrong door should be as high as they are for having your wrong door broken down (which has resulted in dead babies). > [@](#): > > Breaking down doors is part of the police’s job. None of the other things are. Even if it is the wrong door, you can’t know that, so you don’t get to shoot them. Breaking down the wrong door isn’t the police’s job. Shooting intruders is the home defender’s job. In the heat of the moment, there might not be time to identify the intruder. > [@](#): > > There’s no caveat. You have the right to defend yourself. You may not shoot cops doing their job, even if that cop is an idiot. > > However, if by “later turns out to be a cop” you mean that they are out of uniform and didn’t identify themselves as a cop, the self defence could well be reasonable. But a uniformed cop breaking into your house with a warrant - even if the warrant is wrongly issued or misread - is at that time a cop, not identified later as one. They could be in uniform and try to identify themselves and still cause reasonable fear of imminent harm. They could still be a criminal, for example, or they could have broken the door down to a hearing-impaired person who’s woken up by the vibrations, or a million other possibilities. > [@](#): > > I’m not saying that, if someone claims self defence, that should be the end of it and there should be no investigation, which is how you seem to be interpreting it. No, just that the barriers you’ve thrown up in this and other threads (including stating that any witnesses who are friends of the victim should be ignored by the jury) would make it incredibly – almost trivially – easy to get away with murder by claiming self defense. By your standard, someone could walk up to my wife and I walking on the street, shoot my wife in front of me, and claim self defense, and the jury should disregard my (the only witness’s) testimony. > [@](#): > > I am saying that those who kill in self defence should be considered victims of crime and treated as such, and if someone wants to claim that they are not victims but criminals the burden of proof should be entirely on them. The same burden as with any other crime. > > Better that some people “get away with murder” than any victim of a violent crime is jailed for defending thsmselves. Then why won’t you apply this to someone defending his home from unknown intruders in the dark? > [@](#): > > If you think the chance is that tiny - or don’t consider it at all - then feel free to shoot. But if you shoot a uniformed cop doing their job - who is not an unknown intruder imminently threatening you, they are an easily identifiable person doing a job - then be prepared to take the consequences. If it’s so unlikely as you make out, it’s not something to worry about. > > I have to say, I’m pretty fucking sceptical to say the least that a bunch of cops could drive up to someone’s house, break the door in, search the house, reach the bedroom and become a potential imminent threat without the resident being able to identify them, but being able to get to their gun. The door would have to be smashed in extremely quietly… It’s happened – in small apartments with people sleeping in the front room, and in other situations. Cops break down the wrong door and start shooting and kill babies and children and sleeping old people. And there are no serious consequences. In those cases those families would have been far better off if they had shot the cops as soon as they entered. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-cops-who-openly-applauded-police-abuse-today/792340/509 "2017-08-04T23:18:17Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Just to make it clear to anyone who didn’t read the article (not you, it looks like you did) it’s the cop that lied to get the warrant issued that has been charged, not those who took part in the raid itself. That seems correct to me. Since he LIED, I’d say he was the root cause. next bit… why did he lie? It’s not the firs time a cop, OR even a prosecutor lied. It happens all the time. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-cops-who-openly-applauded-police-abuse-today/792340/510 "2017-08-04T23:40:07Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Fuck it, lets just kill everybody on the planet before they kill an innocent person, that’ll solve the problem! As long as we start with bad, corrupt, rogue, thug cops then yes! ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-cops-who-openly-applauded-police-abuse-today/792340/511 "2017-08-04T23:40:16Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/tMoTfLykVcA/hqdefault.jpg "Cops Caught Lying to The Judge") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMoTfLykVcA) Cops Caught **Lying to The Judge** A jury had just found a woman guilty of driving under the influence when the attorneys and judge started discussing the woman's license suspension. The Sanford police officer who made the arrest caused the defendant to lose her driver's license for a few months \*\*because of a mistake\*\* on the arrest paperwork - This judge went OFF. Cops \*\*already being investigated by the justice department \*\*, getting caught on camera after \*\*stealing attorney's documents\*\* out of her brief case! Maricopa County 5 TIMES COPS GOT CAUGHT \*\*LYING IN COURT AND PLANTING EVIDENCE\*\* Texas Cops EXPOSED For \*\*Lying On Police Report & Killing Man Who Surrendered\*\* 4 police officers charged with felony perjury for \*\*lying in court \*\* And just to get back to the “brutality thing” in general… POLICE BRUTALTIY - Cop Punches High School Kid In The Face For Not Having A Hall Pass [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/TVv-EaXlBKA/maxresdefault.jpg "Undercover officers beat man unconscious in a case of mistaken identity") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVv-EaXlBKA) Undercover officers beat man unconscious in a case of mistaken identity My point is, **you don’t have to DO anything at all**. The bad apples will come after you, fuck you up, maybe kill you, and then lie in front of a judge. Too many times it is cops who already have a history of excessive force or unfitness for duty, or had some sort of “red flag”. Too many times they get away with it. Hell, you could be sleeping at home and get the shit shot out of you for nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-cops-who-openly-applauded-police-abuse-today/792340/512 "2017-08-04T23:46:08Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Since he LIED, I’d say he was the root cause. next bit… why did he lie? It’s not the firs time a cop, OR even a prosecutor lied. It happens all the time. She, according to the article. And it says it’s not yet clear why she lied, maybe that will come out at the trial. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-cops-who-openly-applauded-police-abuse-today/792340/513 "2017-08-04T23:49:57Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > She, according to the article. And it says it’s not yet clear why she lied, maybe that will come out at the trial. She. But I don’t give a flying fuck about the “why”. She lied. Period. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-cops-who-openly-applauded-police-abuse-today/792340/514 "2017-08-05T00:19:01Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > She, according to the article. And it says it’s not yet clear why she lied, maybe that will come out at the trial. Holy shit, who cares she, he, it. Cops need to be held to the highest stand. The pieces of shit that fail need to be held accountable. They need to be fired. They need to lose pensions. They need to serve long jail terms including life in prison for violating the trust they have with the public. Until that happens, the cops walk on water bull shit you have been spouting off is completely fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-cops-who-openly-applauded-police-abuse-today/792340/515 "2017-08-05T00:57:29Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > She. > > But I don’t give a flying fuck about the “why”. She lied. Period. Odd that you would ask why in your post if you don’t care… ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-cops-who-openly-applauded-police-abuse-today/792340/516 "2017-08-05T03:42:10Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > When you have complete control over a situation. When you have the choice of how to approach a suspect, then when you choose to approach the subject in the most reckless way possible to put yourself into a potentially dangerous position, then it is not a reasonable fear. QFT. I feel a lot of these situation are caused by police behaving recklessly and escalating the situation to a point where shooting the perp is reasonable. In most of these situations their guns are already drawn, they are yelling at the suspect and possibly manhandling them putting the suspect (and themselves) on edge. At this point ANYTHING is suspect so that when the cop has his gun on a suspect and the suspect is being yelled at in his face and unconsciously puts his hand up to block a cop from grabbing his neck. At that point the suspect is shot because the hand movement threatened the cop. Who’s really to blame for that. According to Steophan (and others) it is the suspects for moving his hand. Others would say you can just look at the incident, you need the whole context because if you look at \ the cops were really justified to shoot the suspect in the face… ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-cops-who-openly-applauded-police-abuse-today/792340/517 "2017-08-05T04:38:33Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > QFT. > I feel a lot of these situation are caused by police behaving recklessly and escalating the situation to a point where shooting the perp is reasonable. In most of these situations their guns are already drawn, they are yelling at the suspect and possibly manhandling them putting the suspect (and themselves) on edge. At this point ANYTHING is suspect so that when the cop has his gun on a suspect and the suspect is being yelled at in his face and unconsciously puts his hand up to block a cop from grabbing his neck. At that point the suspect is shot because the hand movement threatened the cop. Who’s really to blame for that. According to Steophan (and others) it is the suspects for moving his hand. Others would say you can just look at the incident, you need the whole context because if you look at \ the cops were really justified to shoot the suspect in the face.. QFT. The sub-human bots in this thread, like **Steophbot** , seem to think that humans react as fast as robots like them react, and can, _within just a few milliseconds_, work out rationally to reject the reflex to twitch. It takes me a full second or two to work out the answer when someone says Good Morning or asks if I want cream in my coffee. If millisecond-reaction time is a requirement for U.S. residence, please just kill me now and get it over with. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-cops-who-openly-applauded-police-abuse-today/792340/518 "2017-08-05T06:03:35Z")
**Steophan** , are you describing how things are, legally, or the way things should be? It’s never quite clear with you. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-cops-who-openly-applauded-police-abuse-today/792340/519 "2017-08-05T15:46:26Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Odd that you would ask why in your post if you don’t care… Whatever. She lied. Guilty. End of story. False statement under oath, false affirmation, false written statement, whatever, the bitch lied. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-cops-who-openly-applauded-police-abuse-today/792340/520 "2017-08-05T15:54:47Z")
Things will never improve as long as we idolize cops and put them on a pedestal where they can do no wrong (meaning we excuse them and cover it up when they do). You can include crooked prosecutors who perjure and suppress evidence too. Toss in the Chiefs and Sheriffs and Commissioners too. Unless and until they start facing charges and get convicted, this shit will never end. Until it became so easy to video them in the act, there was NO recourse. Now, look at how many departments want to criminalize the taking of video. Look at the cops who try to “confiscate” cameras and cell phones. It’s obvious by now that the police will never clean their own house. It is obvious that the only way to get their attention is to send in the Feds. And the feds should also go after those who “hold the thin blue line” and cover or lie for them (conspiracy charges). It’s time to get serious and start sending them to federal prisons. Every time we catch them. And if their unions keep protecting and reinstating the thieves and rapists and killers among them, maybe it is time to dismantle their unions or at least pull their teeth. And I say that as a long time union guy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-cops-who-openly-applauded-police-abuse-today/792340.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-cops-who-openly-applauded-police-abuse-today/792340.md?page=27)