# I pit the current AR-15 market **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 29, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445 "2012-12-29T00:58:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/61 "2012-12-30T00:35:18Z")
No, it’s not. And we both know why. If the price of gun ownership is such that the public safety is compromised, such as it was a few weeks ago, who should pay for the increases in protection we may end up needing? The public or the people who own the guns? If the NRA’s plan to put armed guards in schools, should the public pay for that, or would it be fair to offset that cost with fees when purchasing a gun? I quickly Goggled this and hit on a [Violence Tax.](http://www.theblaze.com/stories/violence-tax-illinois-county-approves-new-25-fee-on-each-firearm-purchased/) Wonder what the court will say about this? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/62 "2012-12-30T00:36:48Z")
FWIW, the $200 tax on Title II weapons was originally intended to be a prohibitive tax, so there _is_ at least some precedence for prohibitive taxes on firearms. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/63 "2012-12-30T00:39:54Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Really? They tax all other property and seem to get get away with it. The tax wouldn’t prohibit ownership, merely shift the financial burden from the public to the owners of the guns. Suppose these funds were used to make schools safer, would you still object to a tax as unreasonable? I’ve seen a poster propose a $1 per round tax. .40 S&W costs around .35-.50 per round. Would you like to pay a property tax that’s double to triple the value of your home? It’s not a tax, it’s an attempt to make gun ownership beyond feasible. And you know not a penny would go to the schools. Just like car registration is supposed to help keep the roads under repair. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/64 "2012-12-30T00:42:33Z")
Would you object to a 5 to 10% tax on ammunition? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/65 "2012-12-30T00:44:10Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Would you object to a 5 to 10% tax on ammunition? Where the money is going? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/66 "2012-12-30T00:47:42Z")
Say, security upgrades at schools. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/67 "2012-12-30T00:51:22Z")
Guarantee the State Legislature won’t grab the money for something else or cut funding by the same amount? The Lottery(California) was sold as helping the schools and that’s what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/68 "2012-12-30T00:53:48Z")
That would be hard to do. Assume it was though. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/69 "2012-12-30T00:54:45Z")
Such as? I’m not trying to be an ass, but I have seen some really ridiculous recommendations for “security upgrades” lately. In particular are security cameras. As if the security cameras at Columbine did anything at all except immortalize their exploits. I’ve also seen things like school safety kits that are nothing more than a piece of kevlar, a half dozen Wedgits and a couple zip ties, all for the low price of a few thousand dollars. What kind of upgrades are we talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/70 "2012-12-30T00:59:40Z")
I would support the tax if it was used for the funding of additional school security personnel, preferably armed, and preferably sworn officers. Many school districts across the country have their own police force, or have a combination of security and local police securing their schools. If the tax was used to establish such agencies and programs across the country, and to upgrade the existing ones, then yes. I would personally support a 10-15% tax on ammunition and/or firearms. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/71 "2012-12-30T01:01:28Z")
I would also like to see the Gun Free School Zone laws changed to allow for the lawful concealed carry of firearms by employees and visitors. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/72 "2012-12-30T01:01:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If you look at the “talk” section of the wikipedia article, you can see the back-and-forth between the people posting in the article as to whether it was a “long rifle” or something else that was the primary weapon used. Looks like it was the medical examiner who claims the wounds were inflicted by a long rifle, and not that there has been any direct evidence that the rifles were used. > > Not sure if that answers the questions, but just wanted to point out that sometimes going into the “talk” section of those articles can be informative as to source of the info. I didn’t click on any of the cited references, but it might be in there, too. Hmmm. Well, there is this CNN story from the 19th: [Newtown shooter’s guns: What we know](http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/18/us/connecticut-lanza-guns/index.html). In it, CNN has a quote from a Connecticut state Police Officer: > [@CNN Article](#): > > The primary weapon used in the attack was a “Bushmaster AR-15 assault-type weapon,” said Connecticut State Police Lt. Paul Vance. I’ve looked around and I can find a few press conferences with Lt. Vance, but I can’t find the the interview with the actual quote. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/73 "2012-12-30T01:03:47Z")
High metal fences with secure gates preventing unauthorized ingress for instance. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/74 "2012-12-30T01:07:16Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > High metal fences with secure gates preventing unauthorized ingress for instance. Not at all, then. This would not have prevented Columbine or Sandy Hook. So what would be the point? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/75 "2012-12-30T01:09:07Z")
The Sandy Hook shooter blasted his way into a secured building. A gate lock would be no issue for a firearm, and the fence itself can be easily cut. The security fence also does not prevent current students from entering and shooting up the place. ---
**Author:** ![Pinmin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@Pinmin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pinmin)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/76 "2012-12-30T01:40:28Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Do you know any hunters who carry the AR-15 and if so, what are they hunting? Because I don’t (deer mostly, some boar hunters - everything else down here is birds). > > Edited to add: That’s a serious question. I am really curious about your epxeriences. I’ve have _always_ heard that the AR makes a lousy game weapon. From guys I trust to know their game weapons. Lots of rabbit, coyote, and other small pests around farms and ranches. The AR can be a very accurate platform. And it comes in other calibers like the 6.8 SPC popular with wild boar and deer hunters here. Quick, accurate follow up shots can be important for an angry, wounded boar. The bigger philosophical issue is why are “hunting” weapons more acceptible than other types of guns? This is a serious question - I can understand arguments of outright bans or bans on functional features, but don’t get “hunting” exclusion. Or is it just a play to avoid the ire of a large group of law-abiding, voting, sportsmen? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/77 "2012-12-30T01:46:34Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > No, it’s not. And we both know why. If the price of gun ownership is such that the public safety is compromised, such as it was a few weeks ago, who should pay for the increases in protection we may end up needing? The public or the people who own the guns? If the NRA’s plan to put armed guards in schools, should the public pay for that, or would it be fair to offset that cost with fees when purchasing a gun? None of that is any different from paying for elections. If states have to upgrade polling machines because the fiasco in Florida in 2000, who should pay for this-- the general public or the people who vote? ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/78 "2012-12-30T02:13:54Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > How the hell am I supposed to know he’s a police officer? I was reacting to the fact that he feels free to espouse strong (and incorrect) opinions on the subject because he has failed to educate himself. **Loach** has identified himself as a police officer in many previous threads on this board (some quite recent). If _you_ had educated _yourself_, you would have known that. But more importantly, the post he made that you replied to with your swill was pretty neutrally worded. He made a factual statement that the AR-15 price wasn’t rising because of the shooting (which is true, it’s the talk of bans which has send demand soaring), followed by an incorrect statement which only shows he’s not obsessively following the news. Believe it or not, not everyone.does. Nothing he said in that post came even close to meriting the verbal crap you dumped on him. But then, you thought he was a mere “gun nut,” and therefore undeserving of basic courtesy. And so you went and made an ass of yourself. Maybe you should make fewer ASSumptions about fellow Dopers in the future? ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/79 "2012-12-30T03:04:30Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Do you know any hunters who carry the AR-15 and if so, what are they hunting? Because I don’t (deer mostly, some boar hunters - everything else down here is birds). > > Edited to add: That’s a serious question. I am really curious about your epxeriences. I’ve have _always_ heard that the AR makes a lousy game weapon. From guys I trust to know their game weapons. Ar-15s are extremely popular for hunting coyotes and other non-game varmints. They are light, accurate and the .223 round is adequate for those purposes. It is not recommended for deer. Not enough stopping power. Do a Google search for Coyote AR 15. BTW, I am not a coyote shooter. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/80 "2012-12-30T03:37:56Z")
Coyotes are such miserable fucks, they’d probably shoot themselves if you loaned them your gun. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445.md?page=5)