# I pit the current AR-15 market **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 29, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445 "2012-12-29T00:58:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/81 "2012-12-30T04:29:13Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > Nothing he said in that post came even close to meriting the verbal crap you dumped on him. But then, you thought he was a mere “gun nut,” and therefore undeserving of basic courtesy. And so you went and made an ass of yourself. Hey, welcome to the Pit. Glad you could visit. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/82 "2012-12-30T04:51:22Z")
> [@River\_Hippie](#): > > Ar-15s are extremely popular for hunting coyotes and other non-game varmints. They are light, accurate and the .223 round is adequate for those purposes. It is not recommended for deer. Not enough stopping power. Do a Google search for Coyote AR 15. > > BTW, I am not a coyote shooter. Shit, double post. Dammit. Okay, I can understand that (and other wild west varmints). We don’t get too many coyotes down here, so I hadn’t heard that one. 😉 Most of the stuff 'round here is either too big or too small. The stopping power thing was what I was referring to. I’m still a little surprised people use those things for deer. Learn something new every day. In return, I’d like to let everybody know that **Loach** is a police officer and, lest the wrath of **artemis** descend on you like a plague of gnats, may not be spoken harshly to (at least about guns and ignorance, other subjects may be fair game, check with artemis for further details). **Pinmin** , I think the issue is that, to many, at least hunting guns have a purpose other than somebody just having a cool collection of deadly weapons. Not saying I agree with the logic, mind you. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/83 "2012-12-30T06:22:48Z")
> [@Pinmin](#): > > The bigger philosophical issue is why are “hunting” weapons more acceptible than other types of guns? This is a serious question - I can understand arguments of outright bans or bans on functional features, but don’t get “hunting” exclusion. Or is it just a play to avoid the ire of a large group of law-abiding, voting, sportsmen? That’s exactly what it is - lots of people (including many who are not sportsmen themselves) approve of hunting, so attacking weapons commonly used by game hunters would be an act of political suicide. The problem, of course, is that there is no clear division of firearms into “hunting guns” and “non-hunting” guns. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/84 "2012-12-30T06:42:28Z")
> [@Pinmin](#): > > Lots of rabbit, coyote, and other small pests around farms and ranches. The AR can be a very accurate platform. And it comes in other calibers like the 6.8 SPC popular with wild boar and deer hunters here. Quick, accurate follow up shots can be important for an angry, wounded boar. > > The bigger philosophical issue is why are “hunting” weapons more acceptible than other types of guns? This is a serious question - I can understand arguments of outright bans or bans on functional features, but don’t get “hunting” exclusion. Or is it just a play to avoid the ire of a large group of law-abiding, voting, sportsmen? The term you are looking for is “divide and conquer”. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/85 "2012-12-30T10:34:44Z")
> [@Pinmin](#): > > The bigger philosophical issue is why are “hunting” weapons more acceptible than other types of guns? This is a serious question - I can understand arguments of outright bans or bans on functional features, but don’t get “hunting” exclusion. Or is it just a play to avoid the ire of a large group of law-abiding, voting, sportsmen? Hunting is an inexpensive way to manage wildlife. It is a food source for, among others, the rural poor. It also provides some tourism dollars for small towns. Hands off. IMO, hunting is the sole legit civilian use for firearms. Sports shooting is excusable because it can be controlled. Personal and home defense-- well, if I could see a workable law that would limit such a thing to women, yeah, OK. But I can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/86 "2012-12-30T11:06:21Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > Personal and home defense-- well, if I could see a workable law that would limit such a thing to women, yeah, OK. But I can’t. What, because I’m a guy, I’m automatically a skilled street fighter? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/87 "2012-12-30T11:18:44Z")
Are you likely to be a rape target, sir? ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/88 "2012-12-30T11:23:16Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > Are you likely to be a rape target, sir? Probably not, but what’s that got to do with anything? ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/89 "2012-12-30T11:34:12Z")
what do you think, brainiac? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/90 "2012-12-30T11:37:34Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > what do you think, brainiac? I think it’s a good thing that people who think like you can’t force laws on the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/91 "2012-12-30T11:44:07Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > I think it’s a good thing that people who think like you can’t force laws on the rest of us. Why’s that? Because I might do something other than nothing? What new laws do you want? ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/92 "2012-12-30T11:44:17Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > what do you think, brainiac? I asked an ironic question to give you a chance to realize what ridiculous things you were about to type. I am nothing if not merciful. But no, really, I’m stumped. Obviously I’m too stupid to figure it out. You’ll have to explain to me why a woman can use a gun to defend herself against rape, but I, as a man, have no similar reason to defend myself if, to choose just one example, some redneck decides to try bashing my skull in. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/93 "2012-12-30T11:50:45Z")
> [@Stealth\_Potato](#): > > I asked an ironic question to give you a chance to realize what ridiculous things you were about to type. I am nothing if not merciful. > > But no, really, I’m stumped. Obviously I’m too stupid to figure it out. You’ll have to explain to me why a woman can use a gun to defend herself against rape, but I, as a man, have no similar reason to defend myself if, to choose just one example, some redneck decides to try bashing my skull in. dunno, maybe a lot more women get raped than random dudes get bashed for no reason. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/94 "2012-12-30T11:53:24Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > Why’s that? Because I might do something other than nothing? What new laws do you want? I’ve offered them so many times in the last few weeks I have them handy, just for you: 1. All firearm purchases are subject to a background check. All of them. No exceptions. 2. All firearms must be registered through permissive process that does not allow the local government authorities an opinion on the matter. Further, the list must only be accessible to law enforcement in the event of the commission of a crime. 3. Going along with that, a firearm owner must report a stolen weapon as soon as possible, allowing for the possibility that they may be unable to report something they simply don’t know about. 4. HIPAA must be repealed insofar as mental health history must be accessed during the NICS check. If you are unable or unwilling to allow that access you will be denied a firearm. 5. In order to get a permit to carry a concealed weapon, you must pass a test that is modest in scope, offered freely, and is not cost prohibitive. It should not be a thousand questions, given once a year for 15 minutes 500 miles away, or cost $1000. 6. Any crime committed with your firearms will result in you being charged with a crime as well. If you can’t take care of your weapons you have no business having them. Note that none of them have any asinine ideas such as disarming men but allowing women to carry to protect themselves. All would be productive, all are “reasonable” and constitute major concessions from gun-rights people who truthfully don’t have to give up anything at all, and all are better ideas than anything you might propose. Sex qualifications for firearms… give me a break. While you’re at it, if you could show me the “hunting” clause of the 2nd Amendment I’d be obliged. Thanks ever so very much. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/95 "2012-12-30T11:58:06Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > dunno, maybe a lot more women get raped than random dudes get bashed for no reason. Dunno, maybe that doesn’t matter very much to a person, a human being, man or woman, who is currently being made the victim of a violent crime. And who said anything about random? In the grand scheme of things, “let’s kill this queer” isn’t a _good_ reason, but that doesn’t stop some people from acting on it. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/96 "2012-12-30T12:04:06Z")
> [@Stealth\_Potato](#): > > Dunno, maybe that doesn’t matter very much to a person, a human being, man or woman, who is currently being made the victim of a violent crime. And who said anything about random? In the grand scheme of things, “let’s kill this queer” isn’t a _good_ reason, but that doesn’t stop some people from acting on it. How many have you suffered? Recently. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/97 "2012-12-30T12:05:07Z")
You poor thing, I hear ya. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/98 "2012-12-30T12:22:39Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > How many have you suffered? Recently. Recently? None. But I’m fortunate enough to live in a liberal, progressive part of the country where my sexual orientation is pretty unlikely to make me the target of violence. Lots of people in other places are less lucky, and your bizarre attempts at justifying your little-minded prejudice are yet another example of what I was talking about when I mentioned I was trying to give you a chance to not make a complete arse of yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/99 "2012-12-30T12:56:36Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > I’ve offered them so many times in the last few weeks I have them handy, just for you: > \ > Thanks ever so very much. Okay, I can get behind all of those. I’m assuming that you would want CCW permits being “must issue”, right? It’s a corollary of 2, but just wanted to clarify. As long as 1, 2, 5, and 6 are made retroactive (you must register existing guns at which time you will be subject to background check, if you fail to register any crime committed with your guns becomes your crime) with a reasonable buy-back option for those who don’t want the hassle or can’t pass the background. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445/100 "2012-12-30T13:16:21Z")
#4 is the retarded pining of someone so ignorant about the real world to esentially disqualify you from further discussion. Also, I find it ironc that the searchable database of gun owners is afforded careful restricton, but the searchahle database of mental health history is open to any fuck selling guns. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-current-ar-15-market/645445.md?page=6)