# I pit the derisive, condenscending, anti-conspiriacy ... \[merged threads\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 29, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653 "2012-06-29T02:19:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/361 "2012-07-10T15:19:06Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Speaking of which, I heard that \*\*Kozmik \*\*was a primary source for _Transgressing the Boundaries: Towards a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity_. Was that before or after he was accepted at banana? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/362 "2012-07-10T15:38:18Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > And 1% of that is 0.7, thereby proving that the dude controlling the Illuminati has had one leg and an arm below the elbow amputated. And the guy controlling HIM is 0.007, which, by sheer COINCIDENCE, is about 1.4 pounds of a 200 pound guy, which is more or less the size of his BRAIN! You can’t make this stuff up, people. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/363 "2012-07-10T15:43:12Z")
If we go down this rabit hole far enough, somewhere there is an intelligent photon that controls the universe. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/364 "2012-07-10T16:19:30Z")
Wow, after being out of town for a week, I just read this _entire thread_. I think **Kozmik** is mentally ill. Not internet/SDMB mentally ill, but a human person with a mental illness. I hope someone close to him/her realizes it, and gets him/her help. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/365 "2012-07-10T16:20:22Z")
Ah, homeopathic logic. The more diluted (and deluded) it gets, the more unassailable it becomes. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/366 "2012-07-10T16:31:26Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Ah, homeopathic logic. The more diluted (and deluded) it gets, the more unassailable it becomes. So, the ocean controls the illuminati? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/367 "2012-07-10T17:22:47Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > a. Stuxnet was initiated and implemented by a small group of people acting more-or-less independently of national governments. > > b. Therefore, everything is initiated and implemented by small groups of people acting more-or-less independently of national governments. > > c. Therefore, everything is initiated and implemented by _the same_ small group of people acting more-or-less independently of national governments. > > The problem is, of course, that a. does not prove b., and b. does not prove c. **Alessan** understood how I went from Stuxnet to the Illuminati. \*\*Alessan \*\* [suggests](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15241319&postcount=233) that students at Mamram did Stuxnet; however, **Alessan** does not believe that the Illuminati exists. > [@Kozmik](#): > > The Illuminati has more influence over China and India than Barack Obama. More influence over Joseph Kony being captured and killed than [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4MnpzG5Sqc) YouTube video. More influence over Syria than WikiLeaks. More influence over Israel than all the Jews, Muslims and Christians combined. More influence over every single person on earth than anyone, except _someone_ who controls the Illuminati. I believe that the Illuminati exists. > [@Alessan](#): > > That’s the crux of it, isn’t it? \*\*Kozmik \*\*learns that national leaders don’t really control the world, and from that he reaches the conclusion that an even smaller group of people have to control it. What he seems to be ignoring is the infinitely more likely possibility - namely, that \*nobody \*controls the world. I believe that national leaders don’t really control the world. **Alessan** seemed to disappear. Then you - **LeeshaJoy** - came in with a thought experiment: Imagine a world in which the Illuminati doesn’t exist. I imagined a world in which the Illuminati does exist. I imagined a world in which the Illuminati doesn’t exist. > [@Kozmik](#): > > I am imagining a pyramid with the people at the base, higher up, the 192 governments of the world, higher up, the Illuminati, and, at the top, _someone_. > > I am trying to imagine a pyramid with the people at the base, higher up, the 192 governments of the world, and, at the top, _no one_. Then you ask the questions. > [@LeeshaJoy](#): > > What is invalid about a model of world politics that _doesn’t_ have some big shadowy conspiracy pulling strings? National leaders don’t really control the world. I learned this in college. See Wikipedia article: [Anarchy (international relations)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy_(international_relations)). > [@LeeshaJoy](#): > > What aspects of world politics–what aspects of _anything_–require there to be an Illuminati? Stuxnet. Stuxnet was initiated and implemented by a small group of people acting more-or-less independently of any of the world’s 192 governments. Stuxnet does not prove that the Illuminati exists; however, Stuxnet is evidence that the Illuminati exist. When I imagine a world in which the Illuminati doesn’t exist, I think of [anarchy (international relations)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy_(international_relations)). When I imagine a world in which the Illuminati does exist, I think of [anarchy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy). The anarchists are naive. They see the people, they see the 192 governments of the world, yet they do not see the Illuminati, they do not _see_ the All-Seeing Eye. I think of what the Illuminati thinks of anarchy - as propaganda for the propagandists. I think of what _someone_ who controls the Illuminati thinks of anarchy. September 11, 2001. [QUOTE=The New York Times, July 10, 2012] In the decade after the Sept. 11 attacks, Americans largely viewed the Middle East and Islam through the lens of the terrorist threat. The Untied States exercised stark judgments, encapsulated by President George W. Bush’s warning to the world nine days after the attacks: “Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists.” [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=The New York Times, July 10, 2012] Many marchers supported the Taliban insurgency in Afghanistan. “We are supporting them because America is the world’s No. 1 terrorist,” said Saqlain Aslam, a 30-year-old from Lahore who is studying software technology. [/QUOTE] The United States is not the world’s No. 1 terrorist and none of the other 191 governments of the world is either. [Furthermore, none of the 192 governments of the world was behind the Sept. 11 attacks in the way that one government - Japan - was behind the Pearl Harbor attacks.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15234788&postcount=139) I believe that the Sept. 11 attacks were the ultimate example of anarchy. **Alessan** returns! > [@Alessan](#): > > And no, politics at the highest level are not between countries, strictly speaking. Politics at _all_ levels are between individuals. So you are not a [realist](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy_(international_relations)): > [@](#): > > The Realist theory of international relations asserts that states are the main power players in international politics. My theory of international relations asserts that states are perceived to be the main power players in international politics. > [@Alessan](#): > > I was the only one who bothered to put it in words simple enough for even you to understand. Do you understand anarchy as applied to international relations? I think you do. > [@Alessan](#): > > You \*posit \*that the Illuminati control the 192 governments of the world. Ok. I posit that the Illuminati controls the 192 governments of the world and that _someone_ controls the Illuminati. > [@Alessan](#): > > You have taken the glorious complexity that is seven billion people interacting with each other in their own unique ways, and replaced it with a worldview of a mentally-challenged 8-year-old. And, of course, you understand that complexity. I don’t think so. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think **Kozmik** is mentally ill. Not internet/SDMB mentally ill, but a human person with a mental illness. Does Saqlain Aslam have a mental illness? Does [Miriam Lawrence](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15235377&postcount=157) have a mental illness? I think that the mental illness insult is a way to discredit those who you don’t agree with politically: > [@Marley23](#): > > That’s not an argument, it’s a question, and it was a very stupid question. Are you sure you want to link yourself to that? This is not a stupid question: [QUOTE=Stink Fish Pot] Is it something psychological in us as Americans that don’t want to see ourselves (and as an extension of ourselves, the goverment) as cheaters, no better than say the USSR, who were masters of propaganda and never told their people the truth? [/QUOTE] I don’t necessarily agree with Miriam Lawrence or Saqlain Aslam or **Stink Fish Pot** ; however, they at least have the courage to express their views and ask the questions: [QUOTE=Stink Fish Pot] Well, what IS the truth? [/QUOTE] What you know _today_. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/368 "2012-07-10T17:39:43Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Does Saqlain Aslam have a mental illness? Does [Miriam Lawrence](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15235377&postcount=157) have a mental illness? I don’t know… but I haven’t seen them make claims about the Illuminati, nor have they made a series of extremely cryptic and coy posts that defy any straight-forward understanding. > [@](#): > > I think that the mental illness insult is a way to discredit those who you don’t agree with politically: Yes, it often is. But it’s also a way to point out those who _I think have an actual mental illness_. I believe mental illness exists, and some people actually are mentally ill. From your posts, I think you might be. Or you’re playing an elaborate joke. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/369 "2012-07-10T17:50:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t know… but I haven’t seen them make claims about the Illuminati, nor have they made a series of extremely cryptic and coy posts that defy any straight-forward understanding. Miriam Lawerence writes: > [@](#): > > I have been shocked and appalled by the dramatic change in the American conscience post-9/11. _Even assassination_, once an outright abrogation of human rights, _ **has now become an achievement** _ on which to run for re-election. Emphasis mine. Saqlain Aslam, a 30-year-old from Lahore who is studying software technology, said: > [@](#): > > We are supporting them because America is _ **the world’s No. 1 terrorist** _. Emphasis mine. I don’t necessarily agree with them. However, they are examples of the different yet extreme views of many people in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/370 "2012-07-10T17:52:14Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Stuxnet was initiated and implemented by a small group of people acting more-or-less independently of any of the world’s 192 governments. > [@](#): > > Mamram … is the Israel Defense Forces’ central computing system unit, providing data processing services for all arms and the general staff of the IDF. As of April 2010, Mamram is under the command of Colonel Noam Rozenfeld. Sounds an awful lot like they’re part of the Israeli military, which is run by the government. Of course this secret information is only available on Wikipedia. > [@Kozmik](#): > > I believe that the Sept. 11 attacks were the ultimate example of anarchy. This is stupid. In no way does a terrorist conspiracy prove anything about anarchy. > [@](#): > > So you are not a [realist](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy_(international_relations)) I have to admit this is a pretty hilarious question coming from someone who is delusional. > [@](#): > > Does [Miriam Lawrence](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15235377&postcount=157) have a mental illness? Maybe. Can you link to 20 pages of her rambling about the Illuminati? > [@](#): > > I think that the mental illness insult is a way to discredit those who you don’t agree with politically No, it’s a way to describe your insane theory and logic, both of which suggest you have kind of a tenuous grip on reality and should be getting help. It’s not about politics - and this isn’t political anyway, it’s a conspiracy theory. > [@](#): > > This is not a stupid question Yes, it’s an asinine question. I’m not sure why you are quoting it all over again as if I hadn’t just seen it and said it was stupid, but it is stupid. The premise that Americans are not suspicious and paranoid about their government is entirely wrong. Something like 50 percent of them think “government is the problem” and a lot of those think the government is trying to murder them with a health care bill, and a lot of the other 50 percent think the government is trying to kill them with poisons and genetically modified food. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/371 "2012-07-10T18:00:18Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Of course this secret information is only available on Wikipedia. Also on WikiLeaks.. > [@Marley23](#): > > This is stupid. In no way does a terrorist conspiracy prove anything about anarchy. Jean Baudrillard [disagreed](http://www.egs.edu/faculty/jean-baudrillard/articles/the-spirit-of-terrorism/) with you. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/372 "2012-07-10T18:05:28Z")
> [@Honest Bob/Dr Gene Ray](#): > > You’ve been educated stupid > And are too dumb to know it > Or maybe just too evil to care > > Ignorance of the [del]time cube[/del] all-seeing eye is a curse upon humanity > The mind must see [del]a time cube[/del] an Illuminati that eyes cannot comprehend No man on earth has no belly button, it proves that every believer on earth is a liar! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/373 "2012-07-10T18:14:35Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Jean Baudrillard [disagreed](http://www.egs.edu/faculty/jean-baudrillard/articles/the-spirit-of-terrorism/) with you. And why am I supposed to care? You’re pulling that “I’m being all coy and nonresponsive” shit again. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/374 "2012-07-10T18:15:39Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Also on WikiLeaks.. > > Jean Baudrillard [disagreed](http://www.egs.edu/faculty/jean-baudrillard/articles/the-spirit-of-terrorism/) with you. For balance, here’s an except from [a review by Denis Dutton](http://denisdutton.com/baudrillard_review.htm) of an anthology of Baudrillard’s writings written by Mark Poster: > [@Denis Dutton](#): > > Baudrillard ignores contrary evidence for his claims, which are expressed in a style characterized by Poster as “hyperbolic and declarative, often lacking in sustained, systematic analysis when it is appropriate.” Baudrillard extrapolates from limited areas of experience, such as television images, “as if nothing else in society mattered.” Poster regrets that Baudrillard “fails to define his major terms,” and that he “totalizes” his claims without qualification or limitation. > > To this list of charges I would add only that, when it isn’t unintelligible, almost everything Baudrillard says is either trite or somehow — vaguely or baldly — false. That description of Baudrillard reminds me so much of someone else… damn, who am I thinking of? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/375 "2012-07-10T18:40:37Z")
**blink184?** Or… damn, what’s his name? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/376 "2012-07-10T18:41:30Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Miriam Lawerence writes: > Quote: > I have been shocked and appalled by the dramatic change in the American conscience post-9/11. Even assassination, once an outright abrogation of human rights, has now become an achievement on which to run for re-election. > > Saqlain Aslam, a 30-year-old from Lahore who is studying software technology, said: > > Quote: > We are supporting them because America is the world’s No. 1 terrorist. > > I don’t necessarily agree with them. However, they are examples of the different yet extreme views of many people in the world. The first quote is a pretty obvious statement of fact- yes, American politicians run on killing terrorists. The second quote is pure opinion- and one that I disagree with- but I don’t think it’s mentally ill. You, on the other hand, are claiming the existence of a secret organization that runs the world. Like David Icke (how do you feel about reptilian aliens, by the way?). And you continue to make cryptic, coy statements that don’t make any sense- but you act as if they’re deeply substantive. I think you may be mentally ill. Really. ---
**Author:** ![buckgully](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb9ed0/32.png) [@buckgully](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buckgully)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/377 "2012-07-10T18:46:35Z")
Can I ask a serious question? You know how in movies when they want to show that a person has gone completely over the edge paranoid they show them in a room with newspaper clippings and photographs going floor to ceiling (sometimes on the ceiling too) entwined with a spiderweb of red string going from pushpin to pushpin? And the other characters all gasp, because it’s clear that the person is completely off their rocker and somehow drawing connections between totally unrelated events as if there’s some kind of pattern, and is so obsessive about it that they’ve obviously put countless hours arranging and rearranging their whole giant string diagram instead of, you know, doing sane stuff like cross stitch or learning how to play guitar? With that context set up, I guess my question is: Where do you buy red string? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/378 "2012-07-10T18:51:24Z")
You’re getting _closer._ _intense, knowing stare and Cheshire grin_ ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/379 "2012-07-10T18:57:20Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Does Saqlain Aslam have a mental illness? Does [Miriam Lawrence](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15235377&postcount=157) have a mental illness? They laughed at Galileo! They laughed at Columbus! They laughed at Bozo the Clown! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/380 "2012-07-10T18:59:57Z")
I hope Miriam Lawrence never Googles herself and finds this thread. “Does this guy think I’m part of this Illuminati thing? What the fuck?!?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653.md?page=20)