# I pit the derisive, condenscending, anti-conspiriacy ... \[merged threads\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 29, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653 "2012-06-29T02:19:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/401 "2012-07-10T22:17:06Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You may think so. But I wonder if Jean Baudrillard would agree? I suspect that Baudrillard, if provided a link to this thread, would add extra deadbolts to his doors. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/402 "2012-07-10T22:35:58Z")
> [@XT](#): > > So, basically, you are pitting the vast majority of people who make up this board. šŸ˜› Howā€™s that working out for you so far? > > (I havenā€™t slogged through the whole thread yet, but let me guessā€¦itā€™s not working out well thus far. Probably no better than the GD thread that I presume inspired this) > > -XT Actually, surprisingly, heā€™s laid out solid evidence and rational, cogent arguments that have convinced us all to band together and rise up against our Illuminati masters. It all makes perfect sense! Now, tell me again how I connect the proton pack to the whirly-top beanie? And where again do I muster to my local Cell of Resistance? Is it three knocks, or four? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/403 "2012-07-10T22:41:22Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You may think so. But I wonder if Jean Baudrillard would agree? Jean Baudrillard and Slavoj Žižek held similar views. Soā€¦ > [@Telemark](#): > > Iā€™m going with troll rather than moron, so I should probably stop engaging. I realize that this is the Pit and that that is allowed. > [@XT](#): > > That said, there really isnā€™t any point in engaging this poster, since there is absolutely no chance of changing his or her mind on this subjectā€¦ There is a chance of changing my mind\* on this subect: > [@Telemark](#): > > So what? It is a fact and a starting point. There are 192 governments in the world. Many people would believe that no one has more influence over China and India than Barack Obama. I believe that the Illuminati has more influence over China and India than Barack Obama. > [@Telemark](#): > > Governments are methods of ruling nations, not controlling the world. šŸ˜• > [@Telemark](#): > > Again, so what? I think itā€™s unlikely that you are right, but lots of important things occur at the instigation of non-governmental actions. Thatā€™s an understatement. > [@Telemark](#): > > Probably true, but irrelevant. What do you mean by ā€œprobablyā€ true? > [@Telemark](#): > > Irrelevant. I disagree. The world changed between December 7, 1941 and September 11, 2001. Before, only governments could be behind events like Pearl Harbor. Now, governments are not needed to explain events like 9/11. > [@Telemark](#): > > Completely unsupported view, with significant evidence to the contrary. [Hereā€™s where my mind can be changed on this subject.] > [@Telemark](#): > > And youā€™d be wrong. Actually, this isnā€™t based on enough logic to be wrong; youā€™re just odd. [Hereā€™s where my mind can be changed on this subect.] > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I suspect that Baudrillard, if provided a link to this thread, would add extra deadbolts to his doors. Baudrillard died in 2007. Did you know that he was criticized for his views on 9/11? - Can your mind be changed, **XT**? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/404 "2012-07-10T23:00:20Z")
[QUOTE=Kozmik] - Can your mind be changed, XT? [/QUOTE] Certainly. Iā€™ve changed my opinion on various things many times based on threads Iā€™ve seen on this board. All you have to do is show so actual evidence. Thus far youā€™ve failed miserably, but itā€™s not your faultā€¦your basic premise is complete horseshit, unfortunately. > [@](#): > > There is a chance of changing my mind\* on this subect: Iā€™ve seen no evidence of this so far. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/405 "2012-07-11T00:00:07Z")
I have evidence that there are 192 governments in the world. It was mentioned in _The New York Times_. I have evidence that national leaders donā€™t really control the world. **Alessan** wrote that I learned that national leaders donā€™t really control the world. I have evidence that Stuxnet was initiated and implemented by a small group of people acting more-or-less independently of any of the worldā€™s 192 governments. \*\*Alessan \*\* supported my views about Stuxnet (and little else). I have evidence that none of the 192 governments of the world was behind the Sept. 11 attacks. **Marely23** [pointed out](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15234788&postcount=139) that it was not a country that was behind the attacks. I have evidence that one government - Japan - was behind the Pearl Harbor attack. The Pearl Harbor attack resulted in a war that ended with the atomic bombing of cities in Japan and the signing of [The Japanese Instrument of Surrender](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Instrument_of_Surrender). I donā€™t have evidence that the Illuminati exist. I believe that the Illuminati exist based on Stuxnet among other things. I beleive that the fact that no government of the world was behind the Sept. 11 attacks, unlike the Peal Harbor attack, is a significant and dangerous development in international relations, indeed, in world history. I mentioned Jean Baudrillard because he wrote an interesting analysis on the Sept. 11 attacks which I will re-read. My theory of international relations asserts that states are _perceived to be_ the main power players in international politics. My theory of international relations is based on the realist theory of international relations which asserts that states are the main power players in international politics. I posit that the Illuminati control the 192 governments of the world and that _someone_ controls the Illuminati. I argue, without evidence, that the Illuminati has more influence over China and India than Barack Obama. More influence over Joseph Kony being captured and killed than [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4MnpzG5Sqc) YouTube video. More influence over Syria than WikiLeaks. More influence over Israel than all the Jews, Muslims and Christians combined. More influence over every single person on earth than anyone, except _someone_ who controls the Illuminati. I hope that someone on the SDMB can provide evidence for the existence of the Illuminati (or, at the very least, explaining their theory of politics that involves the 192 governments of the world and not necessarily involving the Illuminati). ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/406 "2012-07-11T00:13:20Z")
I believe the children are the future. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/407 "2012-07-11T00:30:57Z")
Why does the Illuminati follow one person, and why do world leaders follow the Illuminati? ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/408 "2012-07-11T00:33:35Z")
_Koz_ Alessan gave you an excellent reason to believe, as he does, that Stuxnet was written by a government agency and I explained why they will never confess. The Islamic Republic of Iran believes and has stated publicly that Israel and the US are behind it, they even claimed to find Hebrew in the code. I also have little doubt that Siemens helped possibly unwittingly. There is actual evidence for this although no absolute proof. Wiki Leaks is a web site, not a mystery. Remember all the trouble they had finding someone to host them after the US got pissed at them. Owners of the domain name are well known, you might have heard of one of them, Julian Assange. The UN is not a global conspiracy, it is a mechanism (if flawed) to prevent wars, genocide, promote human rights and the like. It has little power, very little power. I have personally met Ban Ki Moon and watched him ask filmmakers to help him because they have more power than the UN does. Yes there are non state actors, guerilla armies, Al Queda etc. They generally want the power of the state, they are not often successful. Think a little **CAPT** ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/409 "2012-07-11T01:17:07Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > I have evidence that Stuxnet was initiated and implemented by a small group of people acting more-or-less independently of any of the worldā€™s 192 governments. > **\** > I donā€™t have evidence that the Illuminati exist. I believe that the Illuminati exist based on Stuxnet among other things. > **\** > I posit that the Illuminati control the 192 governments of the world and that _someone_ controls the Illuminati. Okay, so if the Illuminati controls the 192 governments of the world, then why the hell would they need to go to the trouble of designing Stuxnet in order to ultimately cause marginal damage to Iranā€™s efforts to enrich uranium? If they control Iran, they can do whatever the fuck they want without resorting to the extensive and not terribly effective efforts that it took to design and deliver Stuxnet. And whatā€™s worse is that, with the release of Stuxnet in the wild, whoever it was you think controlled things, the thing they were most successful in doing with Stuxnet was to lose some of that control, since a great many people can now make use of that code and itā€™s techniques in order to subvert control of a great many things. I gotta say, for a shadowy organization that supposedly controls everything, the Illuminati sure are a bunch of fuckups. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/410 "2012-07-11T01:23:31Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Baudrillard died in 2007. > > Did you know that he was criticized for his views on 9/11? Yes, as were many others. Ward Churchill. Michael Moore. Osama bin Laden. George W. Bush. Ann Coulter. Gilbert Gottfried. Therefore? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/411 "2012-07-11T01:31:31Z")
So was Marky Mark. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/412 "2012-07-11T01:43:47Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Okay, so if the Illuminati controls the 192 governments of the world, then why the hell would they need to go to the trouble of designing Stuxnet in order to ultimately cause marginal damage to Iranā€™s efforts to enrich uranium? If they control Iran, they can do whatever the fuck they want without resorting to the extensive and not terribly effective efforts that it took to design and deliver Stuxnet. > > And whatā€™s worse is that, with the release of Stuxnet in the wild, whoever it was you think controlled things, the thing they were most successful in doing with Stuxnet was to lose some of that control, since a great many people can now make use of that code and itā€™s techniques in order to subvert control of a great many things. > > I gotta say, for a shadowy organization that supposedly controls everything, the Illuminati sure are a bunch of fuckups. Read [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15246526&postcount=59) post. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/413 "2012-07-11T01:47:32Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Read [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15246526&postcount=59) post. Read [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15238358&postcount=201) ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/414 "2012-07-11T02:15:05Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Read [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15238358&postcount=201) I did. > [@Chimera](#): > > Take away the massesā€™ ability to do this and you deprive the megarich of their cheap and abundant wines, scotch, salmon, exotic fruits, etc. Take away national leaders ability to do things that it is percieved that only national leaders can do like launch ballistic missiles or rockets carrying satellites or nuclear weapons and you create a sense of loss of control (North Korea balistic missile test) and, alternatively, you create a [perceived](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15246526&postcount=59) sense of loss of control (Iran delivery system ā€œfailureā€). ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/415 "2012-07-11T03:06:33Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > It is a fact and a starting point. There are 192 governments in the world. Many people would believe that no one has more influence over China and India than Barack Obama. I believe that the Illuminati has more influence over China and India than Barack Obama. I would think the president of China, many members of the Chinese Communist party, and members of the Chinese military have far more influence over China than Obama. But again you keep assuming the Illuminati exist without any evidence at all. What evidence is there for anyone besides the Chinese government, the Communist party, business leaders, and the people of China controlling the country? > [@](#): > > I disagree. The world changed between December 7, 1941 and September 11, 2001. Before, only governments could be behind events like Pearl Harbor. Now, governments are not needed to explain events like 9/11. This is mindless drivel, yet again. Extra-governmental actors have been on the world stage for 100s of years. What about the Medici Bank, the Protestant Reformation, Irish Republican Army, John Brown, the Hagana and the Black Hand? Youā€™re foolishly naive if you think that September 11 and Al-Quida is a radical departure from the narrative of history. > [@](#): > > [Hereā€™s where my mind can be changed on this subect.] Again, thereā€™s no evidence to support this hypothesis. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/416 "2012-07-11T03:40:04Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Many people would believe that no one has more influence over China and India than Barack Obama. I suspect that most people believe that the leaders of China and India have considerably more influence over China and India than Barack Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/417 "2012-07-11T03:42:14Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > What about the Medici Bank, the Protestant Reformation, Irish Republican Army, John Brown, the Hagana and the Black Hand? You missed my favorite one, the [Society of Righteous and Harmonious Fists](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Rebellion). ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/418 "2012-07-11T14:39:37Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I sort of miss him too. Few could quash a devastating logical rejoinder with a quip like this: Oh my! that quote is wonderful! ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/419 "2012-07-11T15:02:19Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#): > > **Kozmik** , youā€™re just fucking with us arenā€™t you? Thatā€™d be my guess: a troll on par with **ivan astikov**. Hell, maybe it _is_ ivan. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/420 "2012-07-11T15:05:36Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > I believe the children are the future. Try not to be a total fucking idiot. Children are the past. The future belongs to cloned adult lizard-alien hybrids with implants placed while in the artificial womb. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653.md?page=22)