# I pit the derisive, condenscending, anti-conspiriacy ... \[merged threads\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 29, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653 "2012-06-29T02:19:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![PacifistPorcupine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PacifistPorcupine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PacifistPorcupine)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/641 "2012-07-16T20:19:02Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > > All these major world events (various wars, 9/11, economic events, etc) can be explained without the Illuminati- whether considered individually or together. > > All these world events are, arguably, related. See **Baal Houtham** ’s [post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15277765&postcount=610). Note: I am not saying that he agrees with me or that he disagrees with me. You keep doing this shit. This is the text of the post you are referencing: > [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > As my example(and Ludovic’s observation) implied, the ability of a one entity to cause problems for another does not indicate that the first entity is more powerful than the second. > > The mastiff is ultimately less powerful than me, the hijackers less powerful than the U.S. government, a purse snatcher is less powerful than a big city police department. This post is in no way a response to **iiandyiiii** ’s post. This post in no way related to your statement that “All these world events are, arguably, related.” You have not presented an argument to show that “all these world events are related.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/642 "2012-07-16T20:31:54Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Because I published my political statement in _The New York Times_. Which raises an even better question: why did they let the New York Times publish your “political statement?” If the Illuminati run the Times, that would be a really fucking stupid course of action. It goes without saying that in the real world nobody gives a fuck. The New York Times publishes letters every single day of the year and has done so for generations. > [@](#): > > 1. > > Big Brother? Try typing full fucking sentences. It’s not like you are keeping people on the edge of their seat or hiding your craziness anyway - just spell it out. > [@](#): > > _This_ is The Straight Dope Message Board. Once again, so what, why would Illuminati let people discuss their conspiracy on the SDMB if they ran the SDMB, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/643 "2012-07-16T20:34:09Z")
> [@PacifistPorcupine](#): > > This post is in no way a response to **iiandyiiii** ’s post. This post in no way related to your statement that “All these world events are, arguably, related.” You have not presented an argument to show that “all these world events are related.” I agree with **Baal Houtham** that one entity can cause problems for another entity. I diagree with his broader point. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > All these major world events (various wars, 9/11, economic events, etc) can be explained _without_ the Illuminati- whether considered individually or together. Entities are causing problems for other entities. **iiandyiii** gives the example of 9/11. > [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > the ability of a one entity to cause problems for another does not indicate that the first entity is more powerful than the second **Baal Houtham** also gives the example of 9/11. And\*\* iiandyiii\*\* claims that **major world events can be considered together**. > [@Marley23](#): > > Just to confirm, **Kozmik** , your new thread is nonsense and you explained nothing. You really mean, my political beliefs are nonsense. :mad: > [@Marley23](#): > > You have not demonstrated that anyone is more powerful than the president of the U.S. That’s the debate. > [@Marley23](#): > > You’ve demonstrated that there are limits on the powers of the U.S. government, but they appear to be practical limits and not limits caused by some greater power. At least I demostrated something. Now think: How was I able to demostrate that? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/644 "2012-07-16T20:43:41Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > 1. > > Big Brother? A fifty year old book and two long-defunct nations prove today’s existence of an international conspiracy? Well, I say the existence of freedom in the United States and Sweden is the opposite of Big Brother and therefore is categorical proof that the Illuminati do not exist. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it. And by “smoke it,” I do not mean the spray paint you’ve been inhaling for several years. ---
**Author:** ![PacifistPorcupine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PacifistPorcupine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PacifistPorcupine)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/645 "2012-07-16T20:46:28Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > I agree with **Baal Houtham** that one entity can cause problems for another entity. I diagree with his broader point. > > Entities are causing problems for other entities. **iiandyiii** gives the example of 9/11. > > **Baal Houtham** also gives the example of 9/11. And\*\* iiandyiii\*\* claims that **major world events can be considered together**. You sure like to cherry pick quotes. What **iiandyiii** said was that “All these major world events can be explained without the Illuminati- whether considered individually or together.” This is NOT an argument for all world events actually being related. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/646 "2012-07-16T20:46:35Z")
I really pity your classmates and professors if you tried to use this style of “debate” during classroom discussions. Now I’m remembering a couple of similar fruitcakes we had to deal with, and how immensely irritating it was. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/647 "2012-07-16T20:54:59Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Which raises an even better question: why did they let the New York Times publish your “political statement?” If the Illuminati run the Times, that would be a really fucking stupid course of action. It goes without saying that in the real world nobody gives a fuck. The New York Times publishes letters every single day of the year and has done so for generations. You should be very careful\*\* Marley23\*\*, because you’ve nailed it with this one. A secretive organization whose very name is known to pretty much everyone? Riiiight. Now ask yourself these questions: - Has there ever been a letter in the New York Times about Purple Unicorn Strike Force? Answer = No. - Have you (or anyone here for that matter) ever heard of Purple Unicorn Strike Force before now? Answer = No. - Does it make sense for a super-secret controlling organization to have a super-secret unknown name? Answer = Yes. I think I’ve more than proven my point here. The “Illuminati” is a smokescreen, and illusion, a riddle wrapped up in a puzzle, shrouded by bacon strips. The Purple Unicorn Strike Force is the “real” “deal”. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/648 "2012-07-16T20:57:43Z")
Euphonious - the PUSF no longer exists now that you’ve mentioned them. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/649 "2012-07-16T21:00:33Z")
Well if the Illuminati or the PUSF or who the fuck ever is controlling the weather, I’d like to tell them to fuck the fuck off. It’s too damn hot!!! ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/650 "2012-07-16T21:02:27Z")
The recent resurgence of “My Little Pony” and its expanded appeal across demographic boundaries is a strong indicator of the existence of the PUSF. And shit. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/651 "2012-07-16T21:03:30Z")
> [@PacifistPorcupine](#): > > What **iiandyiii** said was that “All these major world events can be explained without the Illuminati- whether considered individually or together.” **iiandyiii** said two things: (1) All major world events can be explained without the Illuminati. (2) All major world events can be considered individually or together. I disagree with (1). I agree with (2). > [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Once again, I politely ask for a reason why I, a neutral observer, should believe that the illuminati is behind world governments. Because it is possible that **Ludovic** ’s [assumption](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15277191&postcount=579) is wrong. I will elaborate. At least you and **Ludovic** are giving good replies to my political beliefs. I want you and **Ludovic** to post your political beliefs. Maybe after I read your political beliefs I will be able to give a more explanatory reply to your posts. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/652 "2012-07-16T21:05:07Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > I didn’t understand my reasoning. Well that explains a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/653 "2012-07-16T21:25:32Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > You really mean, my political beliefs are nonsense. :mad: They are first-class nonsense, but they’re not political beliefs. Political beliefs are beliefs about _policy_- what the law should say, how society should be organized, things like that. This is a bunch of gibbering, half-baked X Files bullshit, and I’d write it off as the work of a total fucking moron except I’m pretty sure you are also mentally ill, and if you were in therapy maybe the brainpower you’re wasting on this idiocy would be put to something useful. > [@](#): > > That’s the debate. Again, a debate requires a coherent argument. > [@](#): > > Now think: How was I able to demostrate that? You want credit for demonstrating something everyone already knows- that the president isn’t an all-powerful supreme being? Now _that’s_ condescending. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/654 "2012-07-16T22:16:01Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > 1. I don’t understand- please elaborate. How does 1984 explain it? I’ve read the book, and I’ve seen the movie, but I don’t see how it relates to the Illuminati. > [@](#): > > To not need to be in _control_. They believe in a higher power. So their goal is to _not need_ to be in control? I don’t understand. Does this mean they need to be in control now? Why do they need this? > [@](#): > > Because the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany were part of the power struggle. See my reply to **Steken** in _this_ post. I didn’t see anything to Steken about the Soviets and Nazis- can you spell it out? > [@](#): > > All these world events are, arguably, related. See **Baal Houtham** ’s [post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15277765&postcount=610). Note: I am not saying that he agrees with me or that he disagrees with me. So they’re related, so what? Of course WWI was related to WWII- every history textbook teaches this. And WWII was related to the Cold War, which was related to wars in Afghanistan, which was related to 9/11. All of these events, together or separated, can be explained _without_ a group like the Illuminati. So why should I believe it was the Illuminati? Please no cryptic replies- I’d appreciate complete sentences, with any references explained. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/655 "2012-07-16T22:17:19Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > I will elaborate. At least you and **Ludovic** are giving good replies to my political beliefs. I want you and **Ludovic** to post your political beliefs. Maybe after I read your political beliefs I will be able to give a more explanatory reply to your posts. I’m sorry, **Kozmik** , but as I said I’m not going to spend a lot of time on this until I get a little more substance from you. You’ve said that you believe that the Illuminati are behind Al-Qaeda. I would like to know why you believe that. I’ve asked you this before several times. Each time I get a promise that you will explain your logic, and yet you never do. you simply repeat assertions and come up with pictures of a young Kim Jong Un and other weird things like they were supposed to explain something. So I’m not going to engage you any further So again, why do you believe that the Illuminati are behind Al-qaeda? This is absolutely my last post unless I get some substance. I know I won’t. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/656 "2012-07-16T22:22:37Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > **iiandyiii** said two things: > > (1) All major world events can be explained without the Illuminati. > > (2) All major world events can be considered individually or together. > > I disagree with (1). I agree with (2). Yes- I understand that you disagree with (1), but I don’t understand _why_. Here’s a sort of example- someone makes the statement that Haliburton influenced America’s decision to go to war in Iraq in 2003. There’s lots of evidence that a corporation called Haliburton exists. There is clear evidence that Haliburton benefited from the war financially, and there were clear ties between the Bush administration and Haliburton. So I can understand why someone might believe that Haliburton pushed America into war. But you’ve provided no such ties between the Illuminati and any particular events, or even evidence of a shadowy group. The fact that non-state actors can influence world events is not evidence of the existence of any non-state actor in particular. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/657 "2012-07-16T23:01:44Z")
Just 4 simple words **Kosmik**. If you really think about them, I mean REALLY think, they will change your life. Connect the dots man. How else do you think BOTH WW 1 and WW 2 actually happened. 4 words. Purple. Unicorn. Strike. Force. It just can’t get any simpler than that. You should understand it now. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/658 "2012-07-16T23:24:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Here’s a sort of example- someone makes the statement that Haliburton influenced America’s decision to go to war in Iraq in 2003. There’s lots of evidence that a corporation called Haliburton exists. There is clear evidence that Haliburton benefited from the war financially, and there were clear ties between the Bush administration and Haliburton. So I can understand why someone might believe that Haliburton pushed America into war. Ok. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But you’ve provided no such ties between the Illuminati and any particular events, or even evidence of a shadowy group. Here’s a sort of example - George W. Bush labeled Iraq, Iran and North Korea the axis of evil. Whatever. Let’s consider though: Is there a tie between Iran and North Korea? In general or specifically. The Illuminati would be the link between The United States and Haliburton _and_ Iran and North Korea. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The fact that non-state actors can influence world events is not evidence of the existence of any non-state actor in particular. The Illuminati influences state actors and non-state actors. > [@Marley23](#): > > They are first-class nonsense, but they’re not political beliefs. Political beliefs are beliefs about _policy_- what the law should say, how society should be organized, things like that. Poltiical beliefs are also unrelated to _policy_: I [believe](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_power#Current_regional_powers) that Iran is a regional power. I believe that Iran will become a great power sometime within the next hundred years. > [@Marley23](#): > > Again, a debate requires a coherent argument. **Ludovic** [disagreed](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15277191&postcount=579) with my premise. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/659 "2012-07-17T00:43:07Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Here’s a sort of example - George W. Bush labeled Iraq, Iran and North Korea the axis of evil. Whatever. Let’s consider though: Is there a tie between Iran and North Korea? In general or specifically. The Illuminati would be the link between The United States and Haliburton _and_ Iran and North Korea. George Bush is the link. Why do you keep insisting on their being some invisible higher-level link above the obvious visible link? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/660 "2012-07-17T01:01:38Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Here’s a sort of example - George W. Bush labeled Iraq, Iran and North Korea the axis of evil. Actually, Bush merely read the speech prepared for him by… One David Frum. Frum. FRUM. Force Regis Unicorn Majure. Get it? It’s quite obvious if you take the blinders off and open your eyes. This pretty clearly implicates the Royal Family here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653.md?page=34)