# I pit the derisive, condenscending, anti-conspiriacy ... \[merged threads\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 29, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653 "2012-06-29T02:19:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![PacifistPorcupine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PacifistPorcupine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PacifistPorcupine)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/661 "2012-07-17T02:22:49Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > The Illuminati influences state actors and non-state actors. You believe the Illuminati influences corporations, correct? Do you believe the influence all corporations, or just the large ones? For instance, do they influence Apple? ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/662 "2012-07-17T02:53:04Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Ok. > > Here’s a sort of example - George W. Bush labeled Iraq, Iran and North Korea the axis of evil. Whatever. Let’s consider though: Is there a tie between Iran and North Korea? In general or specifically. The Illuminati would be the link between The United States and Haliburton _and_ Iran and North Korea. Great, now we’re getting somewhere… NOT. The ‘Illuminati’, as you have so vaguely postulated them, could equally be considered a link between the dead frog my cat obviously killed a few years ago (I remember stepping on it in the dark, that sticks with you for _years_, man…), and the guy riding his motorcycle this afternoon who revved his engine as he passed my house. _This_ is the quality of the ‘connections’ you keep presenting, and expecting us to see. _Nothing_ you have presented is of any better quality than the ‘cat - dead frog - motorcyclist’ connection I just made, but you expect the rest of us to agree with ‘therefore Illuminati’ from that. Why should we do anything else but point and laugh at you, when that’s the kind of thing you keep serving up as ‘evidence’ for your beliefs? You are either a troll, or a mentally ill loon. There _are_ no other possibilities. And I’m leery of the ‘troll’ label, because it would take a troll of _incredible_ skill to maintain such an insane position, without a single crack, for as long as you have maintained it. I bet on loon. Really seriously psychotic loon. Where do you live? I want to stay away from there, so I won’t be killed when you snap. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/663 "2012-07-17T03:06:21Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > And I’m leery of the ‘troll’ label, because it would take a troll of _incredible_ skill to maintain such an insane position, without a single crack, for as long as you have maintained it. Well, alot of posters have been attacking [my political beliefs](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15277125&postcount=573). Not all posters. Some. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/664 "2012-07-17T03:16:34Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Well, alot of posters have been attacking [my political beliefs](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15277125&postcount=573). Not all posters. Some. And that proves _what_ exactly? That my cat killed the frog, and therefore the motorcyclist revved his engine, because the Illuminati exist, and made him do it? Why should I believe that, since you’ve provided nothing remotely approaching an actual _reason_ to believe it? Definite loon, here, folks. Not a troll. No troll I’ve ever seen is _this_ good. Not even me, on my _best_ trolling days… ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/665 "2012-07-17T03:30:42Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > Why should I believe that, since you’ve provided nothing remotely approaching an actual _reason_ to believe it? Ask long as the criterion that \*\*iiandyiiii \*\* demands is the same that you will accept. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/666 "2012-07-17T03:31:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Please no cryptic replies- I’d appreciate complete sentences, with any references explained. You got it. 🙂 Carefully read the following: > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So their goal is to _not need_ to be in control? I don’t understand. Does this mean they need to be in control now? Why do they need this? Because _they_ are in control._They_ need to be perceived to be in control so that _they_ can take the [world system](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy_in_international_relations), the entire fucking system, to another level. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I didn’t see anything to Steken about the Soviets and Nazis- can you spell it out? The Illuminati make it **appear** that there is [anarchy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy_in_international_relations) in the world system. This relates to these parts in [my political beliefs](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15277125&postcount=573): > [@](#): > > My theory of international relations (based on the realist theory of international relations) asserts that governments are perceived to be the main power players in international politics. > [@](#): > > The Illuminati is a hyperpower. A hyperpower is not a government. A hyperpower is the direct opposite of a small power. A small power cannot affect the international system alone but with some concerted effort a small power can have an (perceived) impact on the way the system works. The Illuminati _is_ the system. To understand what I mean by “The Illuminati is a hyperpower”, understand that there is a connection between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany. Of course, one was communism, the other, fascism. The connection is between Marx, Lenin, and Stalin on one side and Hitler on the other side. Of course, both Stalin and Hitler were heads of goverment, and, as I wrote in my political beliefs: > [@](#): > > Governments appear to be the primary locus of war, i.e. the Iraq War and the Korean War. Of course, both Stalin and Hitler were dictators, as was Saddam Hussein. My point is: Two heads of governments, two dictators were the adversaries that, supposedly, had the most influence over World War II, the most massive, monumental war in history. World War II involved more than just armies like in World War I. Before World War II, before World War I, there was this event, recorded in the history books: [QUOTE=The Encyclopaedia Britannica, Volume 23, Page 532] An unusual sequence of events led Marx and Engels to write their pamphlet _The Communist Manifesto_. In June 1847 a secret society, The League of the Just, composed mainly of emigrant German handicraftsmen, met in London and decided to formulate a political program. They sent a representative to Marx to ask him to join the league; Marx overcame his doubts, and, with Engels, joined the organization, which thereupon changed its name to the Communist League and enacted a democratic constitution. Entrusted with the task of composing their program, Marx and Engels worked from the middle of December 1847 to the end of January 1848. The London Communists were already impatiently threatening Marx with disciplinary action when he sent them the manuscript; they promptly adopted it as their manifesto. [/QUOTE] > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So they’re related, so what? Of course WWI was related to WWII- every history textbook teaches this. And WWII was related to the Cold War, which was related to wars in Afghanistan, which was related to 9/11. Exactly. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > All of these events, together or separated, can be explained _without_ a group like the Illuminati. So why should I believe it was the Illuminati? All these events, together, cannnot be explained without a secret society known as the League of the Just. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/667 "2012-07-17T03:37:26Z")
Yes it can. See: every history book. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/668 "2012-07-17T03:42:44Z")
**Kozmik** , I’ve discovered a solution to your problem. It will work to convince everyone of your ideas. Your problem is that your brain isn’t ventilated enough to explain it. Here’s the solution. Take a gun and put it just behind your left ear. Point the barrel toward your right eye. Pull the trigger. That will let enough oxygen into your brain that it will enable you to think of the proper way to explain it. Guaranteed to work. Trust me. After all, I’m a member of the Illuminati. Fnord. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/669 "2012-07-17T03:44:57Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Well, alot of posters have been attacking [my political beliefs](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15277125&postcount=573). Not all posters. Some. Well you are totally _ignoring_ my political beliefs. And you do so at your peril. Just saying… ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/670 "2012-07-17T05:26:02Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Well you are totally _ignoring_ my political beliefs. > > And you do so at your peril. > > Just saying… Just post your political beliefs. I promise I won’t attack them. After all, [my political beliefs](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15277125&postcount=573) are now [the default position](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15236321&postcount=167). 😃 > [@Munch](#): > > No, I’m pretty sure that I made the best contribution this thread is going to see. No. **Euphonious Polemic** _will_. > [@Acsenray](#): > > Well, he might be neither mentally ill nor a troll. He might just be very, very stupid. Or a genuis. > [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > Have fun, moron. I am. But not [your](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15280294&postcount=668) idea of fun. > [@Lasciel](#): > > I dunno - we’re at 141 now and he seems to be supporting his argument damn well. > > I just don’t think that argument is the argument he thinks it is. You’ll never guess at what [post number](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15280257&postcount=666) I won the debate. Or how I got there. I want to thank **AngryLittleGirl** for all the inspiration. [YouTube video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qo92tQnjL8&feature=plcp) related. No summary needed. > [@Marley23](#): > > Again, what the fuck are you talking about? Al Qaeda was behind the attacks and it’s not a country, but why the fuck is the Illuminati necessary? Al Qaeda already exists! [Is Mr. Oldman there?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gy1hmKavdE) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/671 "2012-07-17T06:16:06Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Just post your political beliefs. I promise I won’t attack them. After all, [my political beliefs](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15277125&postcount=573) are now [the default position](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15236321&postcount=167). 😃 I think I’ve been quite clear about what they are [already](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15278777&postcount=639). Perhaps I have actually said [too much](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkmenistan) at this point, if you [know what I mean](http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_ciencia_tunguska.htm) (and I think you do) > [@Kozmik](#): > > No. **Euphonious Polemic** _will_. You appear to be operating under the false assumption that [time is linear.](http://www.superconsciousness.com/topics/discover/what-if-time-not-linear) (Hint: It cannot be.) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/672 "2012-07-17T07:08:15Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > **Kozmik** , I’ve discovered a solution to your problem. It will work to convince everyone of your ideas. Your problem is that your brain isn’t ventilated enough to explain it. Here’s the solution. Take a gun and put it just behind your left ear. Point the barrel toward your right eye. Pull the trigger. That will let enough oxygen into your brain that it will enable you to think of the proper way to explain it. > > Guaranteed to work. Trust me. After all, I’m a member of the Illuminati. Fnord. [Moderating] **Cheshire Human** , wishing death on another poster is a violation of the board rules. Please do not do this again. No warning issued. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/673 "2012-07-17T11:57:59Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > All these events, together, cannnot be explained without a secret society known as the League of the Just. But why? Most history textbooks explain these events. Why is a secret group needed? Is the League of the Just the same as the Illuminati? If they’re different, how are the different? Is that their official title? And for all of this, _how do you know_? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/674 "2012-07-17T11:59:02Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Ask long as the criterion that \*\*iiandyiiii \*\* demands is the same that you will accept. 😉 You haven’t provided any reason to believe, specifically, in an organization like the Illuminati or any other shadowy group- just cryptic references. Evidence would be things like meeting minutes, emails/correspondence, a secret lair, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/675 "2012-07-17T12:45:36Z")
Well, indirect evidence would also be evidence, but he hasn’t offered any of that either. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/676 "2012-07-17T13:29:26Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Well, indirect evidence would also be evidence, but he hasn’t offered any of that either. “We’ve plenty of hearsay and conjecture. Those are kinds of evidence.” – Lionel Hutz ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/677 "2012-07-17T13:54:49Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > > [@Munch](#): > > > > No, I’m pretty sure that I made the best contribution this thread is going to see. > > No. Euphonious Polemic will. No, I’m still right. You see, here’s how this thread is going to go: You’re going to continue giving non-sequitor “Iran exists, therefore the Illuminati must control the bees” logic, followed up with “I will now respond to Marley” (and then you never do). This nonsense will go on for numerous more pages until the mods get fed up with your bullshit and just lock this down. You’ll probably start a few more threads on the topic, but eventually you’ll piss everyone off enough that the mods will ask you to just stop posting on this topic. All in all, nothing will have been accomplished, many people will have lost hours of their lives, and everyone would have been better off if they had followed my suggestion from the IMHO thread - to just fucking ignore you. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/678 "2012-07-17T13:58:17Z")
If the OP has a moment, I’d appreciate an explanation of his timecube hypotheses. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/679 "2012-07-17T14:45:04Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > [I [believe](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_power#Current_regional_powers) that Iran is a regional power. > I believe that Iran will become a great power sometime within the next hundred years. I’d probably call those opinions about foreign policy rather than “political beliefs.” “Iran will become a great power” is also a sane and rational opinion that can be supported with evidence (although not evidence about the Illuminati beaming secret messages into your Alphabits). > [@](#): > > **Ludovic** [disagreed](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15277191&postcount=579) with my premise. That’s not your premise. Your premise is that one person runs the world because, uh, Stuxnet and 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/680 "2012-07-17T14:58:18Z")
Kozmik, I have a genuine, sincere question here, and I would be honestly fascinated to hear a truthful answer from you. To make it easy for you, I’ll do it as a multiple choice question. All you have to do is say A, B, C, or D. No further explanation or clarification from you is needed. This is not mocking or derision. I’m actually curious about this. Here is the question. Which of the following statements would you say is closest to your true feelings about this thread? I’m not saying that any of them are 100% accurate - just which one is closest? A: This thread has gone well. I feel that I have gotten my message across, and it has been received. I have spread knowledge in the world. B: I have done a fine job communicating my message, but for some reason, people don’t seem to be understand simple arguments and statements that are to me clear as day. I can’t figure out why that is. C: I have done a fine job communicating my message, and it is my belief that the majority of the people arguing against me actually DO know that I am right. They feel the need to act as if the things I am saying are not true for some other motivation, whatever that motivation may be. D: This thread has not gone well. I have tried my best to communicate my message, but it appears that I have failed to do so. I know that these other people are intelligent enough to understand what I want to say, so it looks like it is my ability to communicate clearly that is at fault. Please, if you only respond to one post next time you log on, make it this one. I’d really like to know. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653.md?page=35)