# I pit the derisive, condenscending, anti-conspiriacy ... \[merged threads\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 29, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653 "2012-06-29T02:19:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/681 "2012-07-17T15:11:16Z")
I’m interested in an answer to Smeghead’s question as well. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/682 "2012-07-17T15:34:27Z")
> [@](#): > > The Illuminati is the system. So - the Illuminati _is all of us_. Where are my bonus checks? Can I write my own? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/683 "2012-07-17T15:49:20Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > You’re going to continue giving non-sequitor “Iran exists, therefore the Illuminati must control the bees” logic You mean non-sequitors, uh, opinions you disagree with like these: > [@Marley23](#): > > I’d probably call those opinions about foreign policy rather than “political beliefs.” “Iran will become a great power” is also a sane and rational opinion that can be supported with evidence. I also believe that China and India will become superpowers. > [@Ludovic](#): > > No, they indicate that the most powerful person on earth is perhaps not omnipotent. I respecfully disagree. The most powerful person on earth is a power-unto-themself. > [@Marley23](#): > > That’s not your premise. Your premise is that one person runs the world By virtue of being the head of government of a superpower (currently the only superpower in the world), Barack Obama is, perhaps, the most powerful person on earth. The September 11, 2001 attacks indicate that the head of government of a superpower is, perhaps, not the most powerful person on earth. If Barack Obama is not the most powerful person on earth than _someone else_, perhaps, is the most powerful person on earth. If _someone else_ is the most powerful person on earth than there is, perhaps, an entity that is above the 192 governments. If there is an entity that is above the 192 governments then that entity would be a hyperpower. There is an entity that is above the 192 governments. That entity is the Illuminati. > [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > As **Ludovic** indicated, this is where your mundane observations stop and the nonsense begins. Since, “The September 11, 2001 attacks indicate that the head of government of a superpower is, perhaps, not the most powerful person on earth.” is where the “nonsense” begins, “By virtue of being the head of government of a superpower (currently the only superpower in the world), Barack Obama is, perhaps, the most powerful person on earth.” is where the mundane observations stop. How did I know what the anti-CTers would view as mundane observations and what the the anti-CTers would view as nonsense? > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The problem with your reasoning is that powerful figures in history - Obama, Putin, Hu, Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin, Augustus, Qin Shi Huang - have all be known people. The more powerful they become the more they are known. The [Great Man Theory](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Man_theory). :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/684 "2012-07-17T15:51:38Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > The [Great Man Theory](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Man_theory). :rolleyes: That’s not even close to what the “Great Man Theory” says. Are you being genuine here? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/685 "2012-07-17T15:53:47Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > That’s not even close to what the “Great Man Theory” says. Tell me. Seriously, tell me. What is the Great Man theory? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/686 "2012-07-17T15:56:24Z")
[QUOTE=Kozmik] You mean non-sequitors, uh, opinions you disagree with like these: [/QUOTE] See, you’re doing it again. You just added a colon, which indicates you’re going to list some of the things you think I’m talking about, then you run off in another direction. I’m not going to go back and dig up a dozen of your bullshit non-sequitor, stream-of-consciousness brain diarrhea posts, because we already have 14 pages of that. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/687 "2012-07-17T15:59:00Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > I respecfully disagree. The most powerful person on earth is a power-unto-themself. This is easily shown to be false, so your whole world view comes crashing down. He’s running for re-election and stands a roughly 50% chance of losing, he’s clearly not a power unto himself. > [@](#): > > By virtue of being the head of government of a superpower (currently the only superpower in the world), Barack Obama is, perhaps, the most powerful person on earth. The September 11, 2001 attacks indicate that the head of government of a superpower is, perhaps, not the most powerful person on earth. As lots of folks have said, this is nonsense. You are equating “most powerful” with “ultimate power” and the two are completely different. No one (other than you) believes that the president of the only remaining superpower is all powerful, so the 9/11 attacks (and all other terrorist attacks in the history of the world) don’t suggest anything about higher powers. But since you’re not listening to anyone else it’s pretty pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/688 "2012-07-17T16:00:55Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Tell me. Seriously, tell me. What is the Great Man theory? From your link: > [@](#): > > The Great Man Theory was a popular 19th century idea according to which history can be largely explained by the impact of “great men”, or heroes: highly influential individuals who, due to either their personal charisma, intelligence, wisdom, or political skill utilized their power in a way that had a decisive historical impact. > > The theory was popularized in the 1840s by Scottish writer Thomas Carlyle, and in 1860 Herbert Spencer formulated a counter-argument that has remained influential throughout the 20th century to the present; Spencer said that such great men are the products of their societies, and that their actions would be impossible without the social conditions built before their lifetimes. So, once again, you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/689 "2012-07-17T16:03:16Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > You mean non-sequitors, uh, opinions you disagree with like these: > > I also believe that China and India will become superpowers. > > I respecfully disagree. The most powerful person on earth is a power-unto-themself. > > By virtue of being the head of government of a superpower (currently the only superpower in the world), Barack Obama is, perhaps, the most powerful person on earth. The September 11, 2001 attacks indicate that the head of government of a superpower is, perhaps, not the most powerful person on earth. If Barack Obama is not the most powerful person on earth than _someone else_, perhaps, is the most powerful person on earth. If _someone else_ is the most powerful person on earth than there is, perhaps, an entity that is above the 192 governments. If there is an entity that is above the 192 governments then that entity would be a hyperpower. > > There is an entity that is above the 192 governments. That entity is the Illuminati. > > Since, “The September 11, 2001 attacks indicate that the head of government of a superpower is, perhaps, not the most powerful person on earth.” is where the “nonsense” begins, “By virtue of being the head of government of a superpower (currently the only superpower in the world), Barack Obama is, perhaps, the most powerful person on earth.” is where the mundane observations stop. > > How did I know what the anti-CTers would view as mundane observations and what the the anti-CTers would view as nonsense? > The [Great Man Theory](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Man_theory). :rolleyes: None of that makes any logical sense. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/690 "2012-07-17T16:06:16Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > By virtue of being the head of government of a superpower (currently the only superpower in the world), Barack Obama is, perhaps, the most powerful person on earth. The September 11, 2001 attacks indicate that the head of government of a superpower is, perhaps, not the most powerful person on earth. No- it just indicates that the head of government of a superpower is not all-powerful. And it’s not just 9/11- every single negative thing, from whether Barack Obama’s eggs are overcooked to a slow economic recovery demonstrates his lack of omnipotence. It wasn’t just 9/11- we’ve _always_ known that our leaders were not all-powerful. > [@](#): > > If Barack Obama is not the most powerful person on earth You have not demonstrated that this is so. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/691 "2012-07-17T16:12:34Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > You just added a colon, which indicates you’re going to list some of the things you think I’m talking about, then you run off in another direction. :dubious: > [@Munch](#): > > I’m not going to go back and dig up a dozen of your bullshit non-sequitor, stream-of-consciousness brain diarrhea posts, because we already have 14 pages of that. You don’t have to do that: [my political beliefs](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15277125&postcount=573) (Hint: You’ll agree with what’s in blue and you’ll disagree with what’s in red.) > [@Telemark](#): > > But since you’re not listening to anyone else it’s pretty pointless. I’m listening to you. > [@Telemark](#): > > So, once again, you’re wrong. Instead of quoting from the Wikipedia article and saying “you’re wrong”, why don’t you explain The Great Man Theory and what is has to do with my argument. That’s like me quoting from a Wikipedia article and saying “I’m right”. That’ like what **Loach** did in the post after yours. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/692 "2012-07-17T16:13:27Z")
Here’s an analogy about how “most powerful” does not necessarily equal “all-powerful”: Imagine a large forest full of bears, wolves, cougars, deer, and other animals. There is a huge, old grizzly bear who is the mightiest and most powerful beast in this forest. The bear generally can go where he wants, and eat what he wants, and mate with who he wants. One day he comes accross the carcass of a big elk and starts to eat it. A single wolf comes by for scraps, but the bear scares it off. Then two wolves charge in, and the bear has to rake one with his claws before they run away. Then four wolves dive in, and the bear has to take this threat seriously, he rears up and displays, and scuffles for a few minutes with the wolves. He drives them off- he’s still the biggest and most powerful beast in the forest- but when he turns back, the elk carcass is gone. While he was fighting, a crafty cougar snuck in and took the carcass and hid it- and the bear can’t find it. The bear is still the most powerful beast in the forest- but he’s not all-powerful, and things still might not go his way. In the same way, Obama (or any Prez of the US) can be the most powerful man on earth, but bad things- even very bad things- can still happen to America, whether they were put into motion by state actors or non-state actors. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/693 "2012-07-17T16:17:16Z")
Kozmik, have you had a chance to answer Smeghead’s question yet? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/694 "2012-07-17T16:27:36Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > By virtue of being the head of government of a superpower (currently the only superpower in the world), Barack Obama is, perhaps, the most powerful person on earth. The September 11, 2001 attacks indicate that the head of government of a superpower is, perhaps, not the most powerful person on earth. If Barack Obama is not the most powerful person on earth than _someone else_, perhaps, is the most powerful person on earth. If _someone else_ is the most powerful person on earth than there is, perhaps, an entity that is above the 192 governments. If there is an entity that is above the 192 governments then that entity would be a hyperpower. [Why are you quoting yourself?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15277125#post15277125) None of this stuff is an argument. These are assertions unsupported by evidence and unconnected to the basic facts you are posting. As far as I’m concerned, this is another big honking sign you’re experiencing delusions. Rational people don’t fall back on quoting their arguments this way. What are you thinking here? “If I repeat myself often enough, they _have_ to see the light!” ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/695 "2012-07-17T16:31:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In the same way, Obama (or any Prez of the US) can be the most powerful man on earth, but bad things- even very bad things- can still happen to America, whether they were put into motion by state actors or non-state actors. You don’t think that > [@](#): > > The Illuminati has more influence over every single person on earth (except _someone_) than all the emerging superpowers, superpowers, and great powers combined. Why not? I believe that > [@](#): > > The Illuminati _is_ the system. The Illuminati control the 192 heads of government. Do you? Why? Why not? What is wrong with my assertions? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/696 "2012-07-17T17:01:04Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Why not? Why yes? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/697 "2012-07-17T17:02:14Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > [my political beliefs](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15277125&postcount=573) As has been repeatedly told to you, these aren’t “political beliefs” but beliefs about who rules the world. But **Marley23** did an infinitely better job explaining it: > [@Marley23](#): > > They are first-class nonsense, but they’re not political beliefs. Political beliefs are beliefs about _policy_- what the law should say, how society should be organized, things like that. This is a bunch of gibbering, half-baked X Files bullshit, and I’d write it off as the work of a total fucking moron except I’m pretty sure you are also mentally ill, and if you were in therapy maybe the brainpower you’re wasting on this idiocy would be put to something useful. > Again, a debate requires a coherent argument. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/698 "2012-07-17T17:12:34Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Why yes? I guess you’re not bored anymore, Alessan. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/699 "2012-07-17T17:13:35Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > As has been repeatedly told to you, these aren’t “political beliefs” but beliefs about who rules the world. Alright, fine. Those are beliefs about who rules the world. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/700 "2012-07-17T17:14:25Z")
Conspiracy kooks would be a lot less aggravating if they weren’t so smug. They’d still be wrong, but they’d be much less intolerable. > [@Kozmik](#): > > Alright, fine. Those are beliefs about who rules the world. Right. So we’re not rejecting your ideas on politics which are as valid as anybody else’s and whatnot. We’re rejecting your rambling, random conspiracy nonsense because of its incoherence and lack of evidence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653.md?page=36)